Female Warriors

[TonyE]

Auf, Ansbach-Dragoner!

Auf, Ansbach-Bayreuth!

Schnall um deinen tastatur

und rüste dich zum Streit!

Prinz Karl ist erschienen

auf die büro halle,

Sich das xerox-maschine

mal anzusehen.

 

Refrain (2x):

Drum, Kinder, seid lustig

und allesamt sitzen:

Auf, Ansbach-Dragoner!

Auf, Ansbach-Bayreuth!

Drum, Kinder, seid lustig

und allesamt sitzen:

Auf, Ansbach-Dragoner!

Auf, Ansbach-Bayreuth!

[chino]

IMO: YES TO WOMEN AS RIFLEMEN, BUT NO TO INTEGRATED RIFLE UNITS.

 

If I were to believe everything I've read so far:

 

1) women are as good as men

2) there are SO MANY WOMEN who wants to be riflemen

 

So why are all-women segregated units not being considered?

[RETAC21]

Too dangerous, they would quickly get a reputation more fearsome that the Gurkhas for getting at the enemy without pity, as any married man can attest.

[FlyingCanOpener]

Then with all of them hanging around together, they'll start PMSing en masse!

[Sardaukar]

Then with all of them hanging around together, they'll start PMSing en masse!

 

Right time to release them on enemy!

[thekirk]

IMO: YES TO WOMEN AS RIFLEMEN, BUT NO TO INTEGRATED RIFLE UNITS.

 

If I were to believe everything I've read so far:

 

1) women are as good as men

2) there are SO MANY WOMEN who wants to be riflemen

 

So why are all-women segregated units not being considered?

 

I believe the IDF has the Caracal Battalion which is 70% female. The unit has a generally good reputation, from what I've heard.

 

What's an interesting question, and one I've not heard about a lot, is what the Israelis do with the long-term commitments from these women. Are they on the same plan as the men, life-long reserve assignments, or are they waivered for motherhood and other issues?

 

If they are just doing a few short years of service, that may preclude a lot of the long-term issues I see with bringing women into the combat arms. However, how does that play into the effectiveness of the whole Israeli reserve system? Are the men the only ones with life-long commitments? If so, how is that seen?

 

Any Israelis care to comment on how this works?

[shep854]

Then with all of them hanging around together, they'll start PMSing en masse!

Rush Limbaugh used to recommend 12 units, kept separated and conditioned to 'go off' on each month, so you'd have year-round readiness...

[chino]

I propose segregation because quite simply, without segregation there would be a lot of sex, and all the physical and emotional complications that come with it.

Edited August 6, 2012 by chino

[Guest Jason L]

I propose segregation because quite simply, without segregation there would be a lot of sex, and all the physical and emotional complications that come with it.

 

Armies of yore used to think that was a good thing

[Simon Tan]

Those were camp followers and mobile brothels. Primarily so that the army would not exercise their libido on the local population and because it was good business.

[Guest Jason L]

Those were camp followers and mobile brothels. Primarily so that the army would not exercise their libido on the local population and because it was good business.

 

Go back further in time

[Rubberneck]

I have it on very good authority that Ranger School is going to be opened to woman in the Spring of 2013.

[BP]

I have it on very good authority that Ranger School is going to be opened to woman in the Spring of 2013.

 

The Rangerettes.

 

I think they cheered from 1961-1969, and then were disbanded. Oh wait, I am thinking of the Steelerettes.

 

It will be interesting to see the first few pushed through with a PC tailwind at their backs.

[Rubberneck]

BP - that's already happening with men...a friend was down there speaking to them and the RI's said they are being forced to graduate almost everyone who comes through because of the wars.

[GPMG]

I have it on very good authority that Ranger School is going to be opened to woman in the Spring of 2013.

I heard that they put a group of women through the physical requirements for Rangers over 5 years ago. They wern't military they were paid to do PT till they got fit enough then put them through with out the weapons or tactics results were about the same as men better in some areas worse in others.

[JWB]

http://www.mandatory...?ncid=webmail30

 

Any of our Scandinavians care to comment on the Shieldmaidens?

[thekirk]

I have it on very good authority that Ranger School is going to be opened to woman in the Spring of 2013.

I heard that they put a group of women through the physical requirements for Rangers over 5 years ago. They wern't military they were paid to do PT till they got fit enough then put them through with out the weapons or tactics results were about the same as men better in some areas worse in others.

 

I haven't read this thread in awhile, and I missed this.

 

If what you are describing actually took place, I'd be amazed. I've heard this rumor or variations of it throughout my career in the US Army, which started in 1982 and ended in 2007. Not one of those rumors was actually founded in anything which actually happened. Before I took it seriously, I'd want to see names, dates, and after-action reports.

 

The odds of an average female physically surviving anything but an immensely attenuated version of Ranger School are slim to none. I watched guys go off to that course who were immensely fit, at a level probably comparable to a mid-level college sports athlete. What often came back were wrecks who generally didn't recover physically for six months to two years, in several cases. Couple of men I know breezed through without significant injury or trauma, but they all had at least two things going for them: Either they could have given an Olympic athlete a run for their money, or they got extremely lucky with weather and training conditions.

 

Ranger School is no joke. Due to the privations and stress, the typical student loses immense amounts of weight, both muscle mass and fat. One of my Lieutenants got a second shot at the course, after having broken a leg attempting it while he was at West Point. He left weighing 180 pounds, and able to run rings around anyone in the unit. When he came back about six months later, having been recycled for injuries and illness a couple of times, he weighed 135 pounds, and could barely make his way across the parking lot. A year later, he was still visibly not back to the same level of fitness and health that he had been before leaving for the school.

 

And, yes, crap like that makes one wonder whether the value of the course is as high as its reputation makes it. It's tremendously variable, too--Some classes are predominantly West Pointers, or ROTC cadets doing the course on their summer breaks, and some are filled with candidates from the Ranger Indoctrination Program who are going to enlisted slots out in the Ranger Battalions. My LT with the second chance left in November for the school, and returned to us in April of the following year. They didn't abuse him, but the constant stress and recycling, plus the course itself, nearly broke him. The one comment he made about the whole thing was that he'd based his understanding of Ranger School on what had gone on during his West Point cadet-dominated session, failing to understand how much harder the course was likely to be during the winter, when it's mostly Regular Army enlisted pukes going through. Most of the Ranger Battalion guys had zero respect for the officers who went through the school as part of their cadet training, knowing that its nothing like what they went through. My LT, however, actually had guys from 2/75 come look him up and shake his hand. Stories had gotten back from classmates of his, and they impressed enough people over there that the Ranger Batt guys wanted him to do a branch transfer to Infantry and come over to the Ranger Regiment when he made Captain.

 

I really, really doubt that there are more than a vanishing few women on the entire planet that could handle that school at its unrestrained worst. During the "Gentleman's classes", maybe. The rest of the time? I seriously, seriously doubt it.

[EchoFiveMike]

The other thing to consider too is that your peak conditioned athletes are generally not suited to the Ranger course or prolonged infantry activities in general. You need some reserves (ie bodyfat) and the proper attitude to do these things day in and day out, with little rest and little food. That's why most long service grunts are toned, but not ripped and burly but not huge. S/F....Ken M

[X-Files]

Lance Corporal Leanne Corbett woke this morning to face the toughest day of her five years in the army. She is among the all-female pallbearers who will carry the body of her close friend and comrade Jacinda Baker back on to New Zealand soil.

Speaking at Burnham Military Camp yesterday, Corbett broke down as she recalled receiving a text message on Monday saying Baker, her friend of five years, had been killed.

Corbett, along with members of her 2nd Health Support Battalion and the 1st and 2nd/1st Battalion Royal New Zealand infantry regiments, travelled to Australia yesterday to meet the Australian Defence Force A-340 that flew the bodies out of Afghanistan after an emotional ramp ceremony at Bagram Air Base.

 

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/7535589/Fallen-comrades-return-to-NZ

[Jeff]

British soldier unexpectedly gives birth in Afghanistan

Published September 20, 2012

Associated Press

 

LONDON – Hours after a British soldier in Afghanistan told medics she was suffering from stomach pains, the Royal Artillery gunner unexpectedly gave birth to a boy -- the first child ever born in combat to a member of Britain's armed forces.

 

Britain's defense ministry said Thursday the solder told authorities she had not been aware she was pregnant and only consulted doctors on the day that she went into labor.

 

The soldier, who arrived in Afghanistan in March, delivered the child Tuesday at Camp Bastion, the vast desert camp in southern Afghanistan's Helmand province where Prince Harry is deployed and a Taliban attack last week killed two U.S. Marines.

 

"Mother and baby are both in a stable condition in the hospital and are receiving the best possible care," the ministry said in a statement. It said a team of doctors would fly out to Afghanistan in the coming days to help the solider and her son return safely to Britain.

 

The U.K. does not allow female soldiers to deploy on operation if they are pregnant. Although the soldier's child was conceived before her tour of duty began in March, she is not likely to face censure.

 

Britain has previously sent female soldiers home from wars after they have fallen pregnant -- including about 60 from Afghanistan, but hasn't previously had a servicewoman go into labor in a war zone.

 

The soldier, a citizen of Fiji, is one of about 500 British military women serving in Afghanistan. She is also among around 2,000 Fijians who serve in the British military, even though the country became independent from Britain in 1970.

 

Camp Bastion, which hosts the U.S. Camp Leatherneck, is home to most of Britain's 9,500 soldiers in Afghanistan, including Prince Harry -- who arrived there earlier this month to serve as an attack helicopter gunner. Last Friday, a Taliban assault on the base ended up with two U.S. marines killed and six American fighter jets destroyed.

 

Maj. Charles Heyman, a retired officer and author of "`The British Army Guide" said the unexpected birth would cause some concern at the base.

 

"This sort of thing makes life difficult for everyone else, but the important thing is the welfare of the female soldier. This could have gone wrong and we don't know if the attack on Camp Bastion might have forced the birth," said Maj. Charles Heyman, a retired officer and author of "`The British Army Guide."

 

Heyman said it may have been "that the excitement of the tour masked the symptoms of the pregnancy."

 

Belinda Phipps, chief executive of the National Childbirth Trust, a British parenting charity, also suggested the soldier's demanding work could explain why she either didn't know she was pregnant, or had attempted to ignore the signs.

 

"It could be that she was so very focused on other things, and because she was in a life-or-death scenario, that she simply didn't recognize that she was pregnant," Phipps said.

 

Phipps said the pregnancy may not have been obvious to the soldier's colleagues. "Not everyone has a very big baby bump, some women carry their baby far inside," she said.

 

Patrick O'Brien, a consultant obstetrician at University College London Hospital, said cases of unnoticed pregnancies were unusual, but that he encountered at least one each year.

 

"There are some women who have very irregular periods, often women who are very fit and exercise a lot. There are women who don't have sickness during pregnancy. Some women -- particularly those who are overweight -- don't recognize they have put on weight, or feel the baby moving," O'Brien said.

 

Many cases involved women who refused to accept that they were pregnant and attempted to disguise it, particularly young women living at home.

 

"It's not just that they hide the pregnancy from their parents, they often become in denial of the pregnancy," he said.

 

"If you have a combination of any or all of those things, a pregnancy can go undetected, or the woman can be in denial of it if the implications to their life are so great," said O'Brien, a spokesman for the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynecologist.

 

A study published in 2011 by Glasgow's Victoria Infirmary said that denial of pregnancy was more common than expected, suggesting it occurred in around 1 in 2,500 births.

 

In a 2002 German survey of Berlin obstetric hospitals, researchers found that 40 percent of women who didn't realize they were pregnant had seen doctors who also failed to spot the signs.

 

http://www.foxnews.c...test=latestnews

[shep854]

Was the soldier that stocky and the baby that small?

British soldier unexpectedly gives birth in Afghanistan

Published September 20, 2012

Associated Press

 

LONDON – Hours after a British soldier in Afghanistan told medics she was suffering from stomach pains, the Royal Artillery gunner unexpectedly gave birth to a boy -- the first child ever born in combat to a member of Britain's armed forces.

 

Britain's defense ministry said Thursday the solder told authorities she had not been aware she was pregnant and only consulted doctors on the day that she went into labor.

 

The soldier, who arrived in Afghanistan in March, delivered the child Tuesday at Camp Bastion, the vast desert camp in southern Afghanistan's Helmand province where Prince Harry is deployed and a Taliban attack last week killed two U.S. Marines.

 

"Mother and baby are both in a stable condition in the hospital and are receiving the best possible care," the ministry said in a statement. It said a team of doctors would fly out to Afghanistan in the coming days to help the solider and her son return safely to Britain.

 

The U.K. does not allow female soldiers to deploy on operation if they are pregnant. Although the soldier's child was conceived before her tour of duty began in March, she is not likely to face censure.

 

Britain has previously sent female soldiers home from wars after they have fallen pregnant -- including about 60 from Afghanistan, but hasn't previously had a servicewoman go into labor in a war zone.

 

The soldier, a citizen of Fiji, is one of about 500 British military women serving in Afghanistan. She is also among around 2,000 Fijians who serve in the British military, even though the country became independent from Britain in 1970.

 

Camp Bastion, which hosts the U.S. Camp Leatherneck, is home to most of Britain's 9,500 soldiers in Afghanistan, including Prince Harry -- who arrived there earlier this month to serve as an attack helicopter gunner. Last Friday, a Taliban assault on the base ended up with two U.S. marines killed and six American fighter jets destroyed.

 

Maj. Charles Heyman, a retired officer and author of "`The British Army Guide" said the unexpected birth would cause some concern at the base.

 

"This sort of thing makes life difficult for everyone else, but the important thing is the welfare of the female soldier. This could have gone wrong and we don't know if the attack on Camp Bastion might have forced the birth," said Maj. Charles Heyman, a retired officer and author of "`The British Army Guide."

 

Heyman said it may have been "that the excitement of the tour masked the symptoms of the pregnancy."

 

Belinda Phipps, chief executive of the National Childbirth Trust, a British parenting charity, also suggested the soldier's demanding work could explain why she either didn't know she was pregnant, or had attempted to ignore the signs.

 

"It could be that she was so very focused on other things, and because she was in a life-or-death scenario, that she simply didn't recognize that she was pregnant," Phipps said.

 

Phipps said the pregnancy may not have been obvious to the soldier's colleagues. "Not everyone has a very big baby bump, some women carry their baby far inside," she said.

 

Patrick O'Brien, a consultant obstetrician at University College London Hospital, said cases of unnoticed pregnancies were unusual, but that he encountered at least one each year.

 

"There are some women who have very irregular periods, often women who are very fit and exercise a lot. There are women who don't have sickness during pregnancy. Some women -- particularly those who are overweight -- don't recognize they have put on weight, or feel the baby moving," O'Brien said.

 

Many cases involved women who refused to accept that they were pregnant and attempted to disguise it, particularly young women living at home.

 

"It's not just that they hide the pregnancy from their parents, they often become in denial of the pregnancy," he said.

 

"If you have a combination of any or all of those things, a pregnancy can go undetected, or the woman can be in denial of it if the implications to their life are so great," said O'Brien, a spokesman for the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynecologist.

 

A study published in 2011 by Glasgow's Victoria Infirmary said that denial of pregnancy was more common than expected, suggesting it occurred in around 1 in 2,500 births.

 

In a 2002 German survey of Berlin obstetric hospitals, researchers found that 40 percent of women who didn't realize they were pregnant had seen doctors who also failed to spot the signs.

 

http://www.foxnews.c...test=latestnews

[Doug Kibbey]

Was the soldier that stocky and the baby that small?

 

 

Maternofetal transmission of military skillsets. In this case, passive transmittance of the use of cover and concealment.

 

That baby needs to be signed up now.

[shep854]

Was the soldier that stocky and the baby that small?

 

 

Maternofetal transmission of military skillsets. In this case, passive transmittance of the use of cover and concealment.

 

That baby needs to be signed up now.

That truly is one sneaky little git!

[thekirk]

And, mom is in the artillery. Definitely carrying on the fine tradition of being a "son of a gun", per the old naval lore.

[APF]

Was the soldier that stocky and the baby that small?

 

Probably just fit. PT will generate stomach muscles which can keep the baby belly at bay (now that was half a' sentence!).

 

Unaware pregnancy isn't that uncommon. I don't think there's a bigger hospital without a case of abdominal pain which turned out to have hand and feet...(EDIT: on of the few occurrences I can think of where a sentence sounds much better in german language: "ein Fall von Bauchkrämpfen der Hand und Fuß hat")

Edited September 21, 2012 by APF