Elections, Elections, Elections

[lucklucky]

France. Extreme Right/Radical Right in first place in the first round for the parliament elections. "Protests" occurring.

 

The Orwellian media do not notice their narrative inconsistency.

 

"Democrats" win elections

Extreme Right, Radical Right accepts the results.

 

Extreme Right, Radical right wins the elections.

"Democrats" make violent protests.

Edited July 1, 2024 by lucklucky

[Ssnake]

Well, the Nazis accepted all the election results where they lost. And when they got in power, they made sure that there would be no more elections. I don't believe commies when they say that they will respect the constitution - because their predecessors didn't; why should I believe extremists from the other end of the spectrum whose predecessors abolished or demolished constitutions just as well?

I am, however, capable of differentiation between moderates, conservatives, radical right-wingers, and extremists, and it's primarily the latter who are the problem. Though I do not appreciate their sympathizers and enablers, just like I don't dig the non-extremist hard left types that enable left wing extremists.

[sunday]

I am beginning to think that the Overton window is way too to the Left in Germany.

[Rick]

1 hour ago, sunday said:

I am beginning to think that the Overton window is way too to the Left in Germany.

And the U.S.

[lucklucky]

13 hours ago, Ssnake said:

Well, the Nazis accepted all the election results where they lost. And when they got in power, they made sure that there would be no more elections. I don't believe commies when they say that they will respect the constitution - because their predecessors didn't; why should I believe extremists from the other end of the spectrum whose predecessors abolished or demolished constitutions just as well?

I am, however, capable of differentiation between moderates, conservatives, radical right-wingers, and extremists, and it's primarily the latter who are the problem. Though I do not appreciate their sympathizers and enablers, just like I don't dig the non-extremist hard left types that enable left wing extremists.

I don't believe either but i think you are missing the point, if the democrats "the self called political centre"  allow political violence and intimidation against voting a certain way they are not democrats and it is not anymore a democracy. And when/if  the other side gets more support in the future what you think they will do?  

 

[Ssnake]

You talk about the US, and I'm not sufficiently familiar with the situation there; the US are a big place, and far away. I replied to a post specifically about France (which still isn't Germany, but not quite as big and not quite as far away as France, so I feel marginally less uncomfortable to make a comment).

In any case, let me just be on the record that violence in political discourse should never be tolerated. Those who do are in the wrong. Those not-of-the-police who respond with counter-violence are usually just as guilty about destroying democracy, however.

[Der Zeitgeist]

[Murph]

Ok. so what does that chart mean?

[Ssnake]

That Rassemblement Nationale won't control the French Parliament, and determine the next prime minister.

[old_goat]

1 hour ago, Murph said:

Ok. so what does that chart mean?

That the woke marxist-globalist scum won again. It also means that it was possibly the last chance for France to avoid the eventual dissolution of this once proud country, and the emergement of a new islamic power in europe. RIP France  

Edited July 7, 2024 by old_goat

[Ssnake]

Yeah, the sky is falling, as usual.

[Der Zeitgeist]

Haha, OMG, we even got François Hollande back.

 

[Der Zeitgeist]

31 minutes ago, old_goat said:

That the woke marxist-globalist scum won again. It also means that it was possibly the last chance for France to avoid the eventual dissolution of this once proud country, and the emergement of a new islamic power in europe. RIP France  

I wonder if the Russkies will want their money back. 😁

[Stuart Galbraith]

Whilst m obviously pleased, and whilst it means another year of French long range missiles killing recalcitrant Russians, this to me seems to be just staving off the inevitable victory of the fascists at this point. Because Im detecting no willingness on the part of the left to deal with the kind of problems (and yes, immigration is part of that problem) that are driving the long term lean of the French public towards fascism.

Whether this opens up an opportunithy of Britain and France to work together on the problem, rather than trying to pretend its someone elses problem, is my hope. Somehow I just know with French politicians, its not going to be that simple.

We will be back here in a years time. So lets not crack open the champagne yet.

 

[Stuart Galbraith]

11 hours ago, Der Zeitgeist said:

Haha, OMG, we even got François Hollande back.

 

I like him. He does seem to be one of a long line of charmingly ineffectual French Presidents, but after Bojo, I dont think we are in any position to judge.

[Der Zeitgeist]

12 minutes ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

I like him. He does seem to be one of a long line of charmingly ineffectual French Presidents, but after Bojo, I dont think we are in any position to judge.

It's just so crazy that a former President of the Republic is coming back as a simple member of parliament. Imagine someone like Clinton sitting in Congress again.

[Ssnake]

11 minutes ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

Whilst m obviously pleased, and whilst it means another year of French long range missiles killing recalcitrant Russians, this to me seems to be just staving off the inevitable victory of the fascists at this point.

I agree, and disagree. Yes, the left is failing to address the core issues, and as such this is but a mere delay of a process that will eventually put them out of power for good. At the same time, I haven't seen proof that puts RN firmly into the "fascists" category. Radical right wing? Yes, no doubt. Extreme right wing? Some, yes. Extremists? Well, actually no, or at least not yet. I'd rather not push my luck with a party like that if I were living in such a country. But then again, that brings us back to the question how the radicals on the left are knowingly, or unwittingly complicit to the sea change in public opinion against them.

[Stuart Galbraith]

Lets just say that as far as Le Pen, im fully convinced she is every bit the fascist her father was. Supposedly he disapporoved of her methods in making his party more cute and cuddily. But personally Ive no doubt she subscribes to pretty much the same things her old man did, she just frames it differently. If they arent Nazi's, they are something close to the Stahlheim tradition (or even Petain tradition) best I can tell, which is surely bad enough.

Even if they turn out NOT to be that, for me I agree, its far too close to that kind of line for comfort. When you start getting comfortable with your politics being on that kind of extreme bandwidth, there is no telling where they want to go next. For France, Id sooner they didnt take the chance.

Well the left seem to have an unerring willingness to cut their own throat in a bad cause. In the UK here, I wake up to a headline that Unite Union is delighted to have a labour Government, and threaten industrial action unless the Government plays ball with their policies. Its like they havent learned a damn thing since the 1970's, or ever for that matter...

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/starmer-no-honeymoon-period-warns-113637678.html

 

[Der Zeitgeist]

10 minutes ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

Even if they turn out NOT to be that, for me I agree, its far too close to that kind of line for comfort. When you start getting comfortable with your politics being on that kind of extreme bandwidth, there is no telling where they want to go next. For France, Id sooner they didnt take the chance.

Most of these right-wing parties are currently in the process of deciding which way to go. Some are already aligning themselves towards increased electability and coalition compatibility with traditional conservative parties (see Meloni, Wilders), while others like the German AfD show no signs of becoming any less crazy so far.

It will be interesting to watch which way the French RN will be going, my guess is they will try to emulate Meloni.

Edited July 8, 2024 by Der Zeitgeist

[Stuart Galbraith]

If its Meloni, then thats tolerable. Not that I have love for any of the Far right, but at least she doesnt show signs of setitng up concentration camps or mass sterilization. And lets be fair, there are maniacs around that would vote for shit like that.

[TrustMe]

Do we have any French Tankneters who can give their views?

 

[Ssnake]

Not since their mass exodus in the build-up of the Iraq invasion when US rah rah patriotism was rampant here.

[old_goat]

7 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

Lets just say that as far as Le Pen, im fully convinced she is every bit the fascist her father was.

You do not have the slightest clue what fascism is...

 

7 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

Even if they turn out NOT to be that, for me I agree, its far too close to that kind of line for comfort.

Funny that you think a mildly right party like Le Pen's is fascist and it is untolerable for you, but at the same time, you do not have the slightest problem with REAL nazis, like those in ukraie, waving swastika flags, using wolfsangel, black sun, etc. emblems, and of course committing atrocities against untermenschen like russians and hungarians...

 

Edited July 8, 2024 by old_goat

[Stuart Galbraith]

1 hour ago, old_goat said:

You do not have the slightest clue what fascism is...

 

Funny that you think a mildly right party like Le Pen's is fascist and it is untolerable for you, but at the same time, you do not have the slightest problem with REAL nazis, like those in ukraie, waving swastika flags, using wolfsangel, black sun, etc. emblems, and of course committing atrocities against untermenschen like russians and hungarians...

 

Thanks, but my Grandfather was locked up by fascists from 40 through to 45. I think you will find I'm fairly well informed what it means, thanks all the same.

He father certain and undeniably a fascist the good people of France noticed several times. In truth, I don't believe the apple falls far from the tree, no matter how silk tongued she is.

 

And no, I'm not going to drag this thread off target. We have threads aplenty o  Ukraine already.

[Stuart Galbraith]

Hope nobody mines me flagging this up from the British election, but if true it's really very serious. Fake candidates.