Elections, Elections, Elections

[rmgill]

Dinesh usually has things nailed down quite well. My takeaway from having distantly looked at the nordic countries is that their social system works so long as everyone has a good strong work ethic and gets along well. When that's no longer the case, it'll break down rather badly. Which is apparently what they've been figuring out. 

[BansheeOne]

While the Israelis haven't had an election for almost a year, voting is on for the 68th Italian government since 1946.

Quote

Date 24.09.2022

Author Bernd Riegert

Italy expected to swing right in Sunday's election

The party of far-right politician Giorgia Meloni looks set to become the strongest force in a center-right populist coalition governing Italy. Should this strike fear into the heart of Europe? Bernd Riegert reports.

Days before the Italian election, Calogero Pisano was stripped of his party posts because he had referred to Adolf Hitler as a "great statesman" and declared Giorgia Meloni, the leader of the Brothers of Italy (FdI) party, to be a "modern fascist." Pisano was a chapter coordinator for Brothers of Italy in the Sicilian region of Agrigento, until his fascist Facebook posts from 2014 and 2016 were unearthed by Italian newspaper La Repubblica.

The FdI leadership took swift action: Pisano was fired, despite his insistence that he was "ashamed" of his past comments and had distanced himself from them long ago.

This episode in the Italian election campaign shows that, after having worked hard to erase her party's post-fascist past and lend it a fresh appearance, Giorgia Meloni will not allow it to be sullied by provincial politicians. For the past three years, Meloni, who embarked on her political career in a post-fascist youth organization and went on to co-found the far-right populist Brothers of Italy in 2012, has been trying to present a more moderate image.

She no longer advocates for leaving the European Union and the unified currency as she once did; instead, she just wants to reform them as Italy sees fit. Unlike other right-wing populists in Europe, she has condemned Russia's war of aggression against Ukraine. She supports sanctions against Russia and supplying weapons to Ukraine. At the same time, she believes the UK's decision to exit the EU was the right one, and maintains close ties with the British Conservative Party. Meloni is also the president of the European Conservatives and Reformists (ECR), an association of right-wing populist European parties that includes the Polish governing party PiS.

Is Meloni moderate?

Lutz Klinkhammer, an Italy expert and deputy director of the German Historical Institute in Rome, would not describe Meloni as post-fascist.

"Her supporters certainly have some attitudes that differ from hers. She herself has rejected the label 'fascist.' I don't think that's an adequate way of characterizing her, either," he said. "But she's certainly someone who is steering a very conservative course in domestic policy, and will try to halt immigration. She is a conservative politician with a post-fascist past."

During her campaign, Meloni poked fun at European fears of a government led by the far right, saying that lawmakers in Brussels were simply afraid of losing sinecures and power. Meloni supports Poland and Hungary in their ongoing dispute with the European Commission and the European Court of Justice over the rule of law, meaning that Viktor Orban, the Hungarian prime minister, who is currently under pressure from the EU over corruption in his country, may be about to gain a new ally on the European Council.

Lorenzo De Sio, a professor of politics at LUISS University in Rome, told DW that a Meloni government "might perhaps be a bit more assertive" when negotiating Italy's position in Brussels.

"That's what we can expect, for sure," he said. "But it appears unlikely that the key coordinates of Italian foreign policy, and Italian policy towards European integration, will change."

[...]

Leftists are divided

For the past few weeks, Meloni has continually topped the opinion polls, with the center-left Democratic Party in second place. The Brothers of Italy are projected to win 25% of the vote on Sunday, and the Democratic Party around 22%.

The ultraconservative Meloni wants to form a coalition with the other two right-wing populist parties, League and Forza Italia. This would give the center-right alliance a comfortable majority in the two equal chambers of the Italian parliament. League, the party of former Interior Minister Matteo Salvini, is at about 13% in the opinion polls. Forza Italia, led by the old warhorse Silvio Berlusconi, is polling at 7%. According to Italian electoral law, the block that gains a relative majority of votes gets an absolute majority of seats in the scaled-down parliament.

The political left, which should have rallied around the Democratic Party, is hopelessly divided, and was unable to forge a broad alliance during the election campaign. Opinion polls indicate the left wing and small liberal parties will be no match for the right.

Support for the formerly popular 5-Star Movement, previously the strongest party, has dropped to just 13%. Like the 5-Star Movement, the left wing has also split into several factions, thereby reducing their chances in the election.

Center-right coalition not a novelty

It's debatable how long a new center-right government under Meloni, potentially the country's first female prime minister, would last. Italy has had a center-right coalition before, in 2001. Back then, the more moderate Berlusconi led the biggest party in the right-wing camp.

However, Klinkhammer said post-fascists and right-wing populists are not a new phenomenon in Italian politics. "The post-fascists have been a very substantial presence in various governments since 2001. So, in that respect I don't think a new government led by Giorgia Meloni is likely to represent a qualitative leap," he said.

[...]

https://www.dw.com/en/italy-expected-to-swing-right-in-sundays-election/a-63222514

[lucklucky]

Maybe they like Government so much they want to have many...

[lucklucky]

https://www.corriere.it/elezioni/risultati-politiche-2022/camera.shtml

[sunday]

2 hours ago, lucklucky said:

https://www.corriere.it/elezioni/risultati-politiche-2022/camera.shtml

 

[BansheeOne]

Quote

Italy election: Meloni says center-right bloc has 'clear' mandate

1h ago

Giorgia Meloni, leading a center-right coalition, is on track to become Italy's first woman prime minister ever and its first far-right leader since Benito Mussolini. The main center-left group has conceded defeat.

The center-right coalition led by nationalist Giorgia Meloni secured a parliamentary majority in Italy's general elections on Sunday, according to exit polls.

Speaking early Monday, Meloni said Italians had sent "a clear message" in backing her alliance.

"If we are called upon to govern this nation, we will do so for all Italians, with the aim of uniting the people, of exalting what unites them rather than what divides them," she told reporters. "We will not betray your trust."

Her remarks came shortly after the main center-left group, the Democratic Party, conceded defeat.

"This is a sad evening for the country," Debora Serracchiani, a senior PD lawmaker, told reporters in the party's first official comment on the result. "[The right] has the majority in parliament, but not in the country," Serracchiani said.

What did exit polls indicate?

Polls closed at 11 p.m. local time (2100 GMT) on Sunday. Exit polls had shown the alliance led by Meloni's Brothers of Italy party securing around 45% of the vote. Meloni's own party had 26% of that by itself, as the strongest single group in the polls.

The center-left alliance, led by the Democratic Party, was the second-strongest bloc, with 29%.

The populist 5 Star Movement grabbed 16.5%, following reports of a last-minute surge in support after a polling moratorium had been imposed. 

Some 51.5 million people were eligible to cast ballots. The Interior Ministry put the overall turnout at 64% — far lower than the 2018 election, which had seen a record low turnout of 73%.

The projections indicated that the center-right alliance was winning between 227 and 257 of the 400 seats in the lower house of parliament and 111-131 of the 200 Senate seats.

The center-left alliance, led by the Democratic Party, was projected to have secured 88 seats in the lower house and 42 seats in the Senate.

Who is part of the winning coalition?

Meloni's Brothers of Italy party is in an alliance with the anti-migrant League party of Matteo Salvini, as well as the far-right Forza Italia led by former Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi. 

Meloni campaigned on a motto of "God, country and family." The 45-year-old nationalist has downplayed her party's post-fascist roots and sought to promote it as a mainstream conservative group. 

She has rejected accusations of being a fascist, and increasingly toned down some of the more far-right rhetoric. 

However, in June, she railed against a so-called LGBT lobby, "mass immigration" and "big international finance."

Although she has been known for her euroskeptic stance, she has abandoned her calls for Rome to ditch the eurozone. Instead, she wants Italy to assert its interests more in the European Union. 

[...]

https://m.dw.com/en/italy-election-meloni-says-center-right-bloc-has-clear-mandate/a-63233616

[Burncycle360]

One dangers of getting silly with unchecked leftist ideology under the guise of progressivism is they're still the minority, even if the loudest and center stage. This opens the door for right wing populists to gain reactionary support from the majority.

Edited September 26, 2022 by Burncycle360

[NickM]

2 hours ago, Burncycle360 said:

One dangers of getting silly with unchecked leftist ideology under the guise of progressivism is they're still the minority, even if the loudest and center stage. This opens the door for right wing populists to gain reactionary support from the majority.

It sort of sounds like these lefties will end up with their heads on the ends of pikes if the backlash is too intense. 

Going Suharto: one and done 

[EchoFiveMike]

Sure thing, the real danger of leftists is that the right gets power.

GTFO.  The real danger of leftists is that they always go for camps and death squads against the actual people of their host nation.  S/F....Ken M

[Ivanhoe]

I haven't seen mention of this, in these hallowed halls;

https://www.politico.eu/article/poland-von-der-leyens-the-tools-comments-scandalous/

Quote

 

At a conference at Princeton University on Thursday, von der Leyen was asked about the candidates in Sunday’s legislative elections in Italy, but she included Poland and Hungary in her response.

“If things go in a difficult direction — and I’ve spoken about Hungary and Poland — we have the tools,” von der Leyen said, in a clear reference to the Commission’s ability to cut funds allocated to EU governments when they are deemed to be violating the rule of law.

 

I know nothing of the issues, but as reported von der Leyen seems to have made a "nice democracy, shame if something happened to it" threat. Not a particularly wise move, I would think. 

 

 

[BansheeOne]

All the teeth-gnashing is obviously overblown. Discussing Italian governments is like complaining about the weather - it will change next week anyway. 😋

[DKTanker]

10 hours ago, Burncycle360 said:

One dangers of getting silly with unchecked leftist ideology under the guise of progressivism is they're still the minority, even if the loudest and center stage. This opens the door for right wing populists to gain reactionary support from the majority.

I know, right?  The unmitigated gall of some people who would defend the idea of family and 2+2=4.

[Burncycle360]

That's my point, the victory in Italy shouldn't come as a surprise.

Things might go too far the other way sure, but that's not the clear and present danger for now, we can burn that bridge when we get to it

Edited September 27, 2022 by Burncycle360

[Ivanhoe]

Jews in Canada already going into hiding;

 

[sunday]

Probably they do not read The Times of Israel there...

Quote

Italy’s Meloni portrays herself as strong supporter of Israel, rejects fascist past

Brothers of Italy leader has highlighted ties to Likud party; Israel, which has boycotted other European far-right leaders, yet to react to election results

Italy’s Giorgia Meloni, who is on track to become the country’s first far-right leader since Mussolini in World War II, has long tried to distance herself from her party’s fascist past and indicated she would be a strong supporter of Israel, even boasting of ties to the Likud party.

(...)

https://www.timesofisrael.com/italys-meloni-portrays-herself-as-strong-supporter-of-israel-rejects-fascist-past/

I've seen some antisemites decrying Meloni's support for Israel already.

[sunday]

Italian naming styles...

Yes, it is real.

[urbanoid]

Based.

 

[sunday]

[lucklucky]

One way to rate Dictators is by how many they murder of their own people which are usally unarmed people. It is a way to see how much support they got from their own and also the brutality and intolerance level . By that ballpark Mussolini was in very low position in Dictator murder list.

He even criticized Franco for what he did in and just after Spanish Civil War.

Hitler murdered millions of Germans most of them German Jews. Mussolini murdered probably less than 100 Italians, but a couple thousands were expelled or found life impossible in Fascism and emigrated while others in prison.

[sunday]

3 minutes ago, lucklucky said:

He even criticized Franco for what he did in and just after Spanish Civil War.

Considering who was executed, and who died in his bed...

[lucklucky]

That has more to do with entering a supposed short War just to get a seat at peace conference... instead said War turned into a  World War and he was in loosing side.

[sunday]

9 minutes ago, lucklucky said:

That has more to do with entering a supposed short War just to get a seat at peace conference... instead said War turned into a  World War and he was in loosing side.

Nobody ever accused Mussolini of being very smart.

I mean, I do not wish to sound like a Franco apologist, but compare the careers of Hitler and Mussolini before getting to power with Franco's. Those two were basically agitators.

You may also consider that Salazar was a University Professor.

Then there are Mannerheim and Horthy.

Edited September 29, 2022 by sunday

[lucklucky]

Mussolini was smart until a certain point in time, in Munich he was the only one that was able to understand 4 languages, no one learns 4 languages unless have some intellectual capability , but he was also a comfort seeking person a bit dilettante  and there was significant mismatch between how he presented and liked to see himself - militaristic, strong man and his real  capabilities : he was a person that was good for making deal and trades(1).

  By late 30's, 40 i also believe he was already in a downward concerning his faculties and basically attached himself to Hitler but with strong resentments. That jealousy will be a significant part of his decisions. Part of that motif have been a strong psyche of Italian leaderships since reunification of seeking to elevate Italy to the level of other great European powers and that current goes right trough Mussolini like a bolt.

Date of Birth: Mussolini 1883, Hitler 1889, Franco 1892.

(1)He dealt with Monarchy, with Vatican, in essence he made himself a Dictator with a minimal number of own citizen deaths. He achieved that as a dealer - with threats at very low level comparatively - not as militaristic violent dictator despite the rhetoric we have of him.

And he entered the war expecting to be at peace conference where he could make his deals and be in is preferable  "battlefield".

 

[lucklucky]

Meanwhile Meloni Youtube censored speech was reinstated

 

 

[lucklucky]

Concerning Salazar he was not involved in the coups(1926) that finished the disastrous 1st republic. He was a respected Professor in Coimbra University. After several coups, he was called to be the finance minister in 1928, he stabilised the finances that for 20 years were in and out of bankruptcies and got increasingly more power until he took over by 1933.

In a sense he got power because there was no one else that felt could deal with serious country issues.  After financial stabilization started to arrive, the military got behind him.

Edited September 29, 2022 by lucklucky