Jump to content
tanknet.org

Elections, Elections, Elections


Recommended Posts

So between the Neo-Leninsists and the Neo-Reaganists, we could have a neo-Cold War. All you need now is neo-NewCoke. Of course it's a little different with much of NATO in deep economic malaise and social unrest.

 

NATO as the new Neo WarPac...European Union the Soviet Union...now, if SOMEBODY could do SOMETHING stupid in the Balkans...

 

.......................................................................................

 

On a sdeperate note, have not been back home in 3, almost 4 years...

 

Oy, Sardaukar - fancy a Holiday in Sarajevo?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 1.3k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Jeff....this is how small town doctors used to work. Those who could paid full whack and the doctor would not turn anyone away since he had the slack to do so. Today, he cannot do so between the govt. mandates and the professional liability insurance. All that is overhead that gets passed on...and it just snowballs.

Link to post
Share on other sites

¡Me gusta!

 

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/05/07/entertainment-us-mexico-elections-model-idUSBRE84615A20120507

 

(Reuters) - Mexico's electoral authority apologized to voters on Monday after a sober presidential debate was upstaged by a former Playboy model and her revealing outfit.

Link to post
Share on other sites

That debate sounds fine to me - it was a close-run contest between two candidates to determine which was best. The vitally important choice was sure to split households and start life-long feuds, as all over mexico there was just one question on everyone's lips - left or right? :P

Link to post
Share on other sites

That debate sounds fine to me - it was a close-run contest between two candidates to determine which was best. The vitally important choice was sure to split households and start life-long feuds, as all over mexico there was just one question on everyone's lips - left or right? :P

 

In Mexican politics, logically the best position is in the center.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Also, Israel may be going to vote soon. The prime minister has called for an early election, possibly as soon as september.

We're not going to have early elections after all, we now have a 'national unity' government with the 'opposition' joining the government coalition effective immediately.

 

Which is why every res. aluf is talking about Iran.

Guess what that means for Iran now...

Link to post
Share on other sites

Paul Krugman? America's worst economist! The Noble and NYT is proof enough. No mention of steps taken by the government's effort to open up their economies to freedom of employment. Austerity without economic freedom is worthless. You know it takes a judge's order to fire someone in Spain? Yeah, lots of free enterprise there. Then Krugman has the nerve to say the US attempted austerity. HA ha. Warren Buffet said this morning anytime the government spends more than they take in is "stimulus". You can call it austerity, cars for clunkers, investing in green jobs or anti-stimulus but it still is stimulus. The US is spending 8% more than it takes in.and has not stopped for 10 years. Stimulus has failed, not austerity.

 

Yep, I'll take a Nobel Laureate over the received wisdom around here, most anytime.

 

I know a painfully small amount about Spain. The 'freedom of employment' you speak of is 'freedom to fire/lay off' so why don't you admit it? We need more unemployment to make things work, right?

 

The attempted austerity in the US was the congressional shutdown over more spending, claiming that the stimulus was a failure in three months' time, followed by the scortched earth policy by a group more dedicated to bringing down the elected US president than working for the country. Pray tell, how would the US defaulting payments on the national debt have worked? The mere existence of the debt cap voted after a deficit budget fails logic.

 

The history of 1920 and the 'failure' of Keynes in the 30s noted elsewhere are cooked history.

 

I am still awaiting the Confidence that is supposed to appear after the austerity and bring back prosperity....anyone?

Link to post
Share on other sites

[The attempted austerity in the US was the congressional shutdown over more spending, claiming that the stimulus was a failure in three months' time, followed by the scortched earth policy by a group more dedicated to bringing down the elected US president than working for the country. Pray tell, how would the US defaulting payments on the national debt have worked? The mere existence of the debt cap voted after a deficit budget fails logic.

 

In that case, federal spending must have plummeted in that period. Do you care to show some figures to support that "austerity"?

 

The history of 1920 and the 'failure' of Keynes in the 30s noted elsewhere are cooked history.

 

 

Please elaborate about the 1920-21 depression, preferably with supporting data showing the success of Keynes' ideas later in the 30's.

 

 

Henry Morgenthau in 1939 appeared to disagree on the "austerity" of the 30's:

 

"No, gentlemen, we have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work. And I have just one interest, and if I am wrong, as far as I am concerned, somebody else can have my job. I want to see this country prosperous. I want to see people get a job. I want to see people get enough to eat. We have never made good on our promises…"

Edited by Mikel2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Rut roh Tzefa, I play some WoT, go to bed and Bibi blindsides everyone and makes a deal with the devil Shaul! Govenrment of unity=traditional precursor to time of troubles. Bibi's election gambit worked. Is there an 'en brera' mood in Israel. If there is, then the strike is on and it will be delivered before November barring some major shift. Barak now wishes he had been less mean to Bibi.

Link to post
Share on other sites

They just couldn't handle a month of austerity so they reversed course and headed back the way that brought them to the problems they now have.

 

You are kidding, right? The austerity doctrine after more than 2 years has already been proven a stark failure, as any student of 1929-39 could predict. The govt cutbacks, adding much to unemployment and lower output and bland consumerism, was supposed somehow to produce Confidence and the return of investors and a growth in the market. How much more do you want to wait?

 

Confidence is DOA as far as the finance industry is concerned, having already wrecked the train.

 

The apparent lack of any new tricks will cause either an admission that they were wrong, or a wholesale turnover in European regimes as they seek uncannily to tighten down even more.

 

Thank our USAian dumb luck that we did not follow this course, as even the Bush II Regime was loathe to deep-six the finance industry, although why Lehman Bros. had to be sacrificed remains a deep mystery.

 

Mr. Confidence will remain dead & buried until Europe remembers Mr. Keynes. The EU rules - especially for the EuroZone - were designed only for the good times, as in 'housing will never go down.' Time to loosen up!

 

 

 

We gave austerity a go, now we have more people unemployed and back in recession again. I dont suggest that Austerity and cutbacks are unnecessary, but it is clear its possible to vastly overdo the right thing.

 

In the 1930's recession we built bypasses, invested in the railways,built council houses, built the Queen Mary and slowly but surely the economy recovered. Now historians will tell you Government support to the market didnt work. Unfortunately when you look at the history books the fact dont quite seem to bear it out. It did work, and provided infrastructure that proved useful in WW2. And we were out of that depression rather faster than the present one.

 

Note in 1945 Britain was bankrupt.In that period of austerity we developed the Atomic bomb and a jet bomber force to carry it, put funding into the worlds largest airliner, built the world first jet airliner, nationalized and rebuilt the railways, built council houses, fought Korea, built the national health service and less than 10 years later the country was recovering. And that was a debt we only paid off less than 10 years ago, which suggest getting the economy working now, pay later, is not always the bad approach politiicans would still have you believe.

 

So now we are still bankrupt, sat twiddling our thumbs, do bugger all but watch t bankers rake in ever larger bonuses and wonder why the economy is hitting the skids. Its not the left or right choice that is at issue here. Its sheer lack of bloody imagination to do anything at all but let the people who caused the recession sort it out. And im not optimistic they have learned a damn thing.

 

Its not about ideology. Its about pragmatism and the lack thereof.

 

In more pleasant news, Mexico had its own election, and seem to have taken a more pragmatic approach to its coverage. Or lack thereof.

http://uk.news.yahoo...-022235028.html

 

Gah, someone beat me to these 2 imporant issues. Damn you Hefner! :)

 

Stuart,

I don't know the economic history of the UK in the 30's well enough to comment, but in the US, the problem was that there was no recovery. After the implementation of the New Deal, unemployment still ranged from 15 to 20%, all the way to WWII. AFAIK, it was the longest "recovery" from an economic downturn in US history.

But I do agree on following the Mexican model!

Mikel

Link to post
Share on other sites

They just couldn't handle a month of austerity so they reversed course and headed back the way that brought them to the problems they now have.

 

You are kidding, right? The austerity doctrine after more than 2 years has already been proven a stark failure, as any student of 1929-39 could predict. The govt cutbacks, adding much to unemployment and lower output and bland consumerism, was supposed somehow to produce Confidence and the return of investors and a growth in the market. How much more do you want to wait?

 

Confidence is DOA as far as the finance industry is concerned, having already wrecked the train.

 

The apparent lack of any new tricks will cause either an admission that they were wrong, or a wholesale turnover in European regimes as they seek uncannily to tighten down even more.

 

Thank our USAian dumb luck that we did not follow this course, as even the Bush II Regime was loathe to deep-six the finance industry, although why Lehman Bros. had to be sacrificed remains a deep mystery.

 

Mr. Confidence will remain dead & buried until Europe remembers Mr. Keynes. The EU rules - especially for the EuroZone - were designed only for the good times, as in 'housing will never go down.' Time to loosen up!

 

 

 

We gave austerity a go, now we have more people unemployed and back in recession again. I dont suggest that Austerity and cutbacks are unnecessary, but it is clear its possible to vastly overdo the right thing.

 

In the 1930's recession we built bypasses, invested in the railways,built council houses, built the Queen Mary and slowly but surely the economy recovered. Now historians will tell you Government support to the market didnt work. Unfortunately when you look at the history books the fact dont quite seem to bear it out. It did work, and provided infrastructure that proved useful in WW2. And we were out of that depression rather faster than the present one.

 

Note in 1945 Britain was bankrupt.In that period of austerity we developed the Atomic bomb and a jet bomber force to carry it, put funding into the worlds largest airliner, built the world first jet airliner, nationalized and rebuilt the railways, built council houses, fought Korea, built the national health service and less than 10 years later the country was recovering. And that was a debt we only paid off less than 10 years ago, which suggest getting the economy working now, pay later, is not always the bad approach politiicans would still have you believe.

 

So now we are still bankrupt, sat twiddling our thumbs, do bugger all but watch t bankers rake in ever larger bonuses and wonder why the economy is hitting the skids. Its not the left or right choice that is at issue here. Its sheer lack of bloody imagination to do anything at all but let the people who caused the recession sort it out. And im not optimistic they have learned a damn thing.

 

Its not about ideology. Its about pragmatism and the lack thereof.

 

In more pleasant news, Mexico had its own election, and seem to have taken a more pragmatic approach to its coverage. Or lack thereof.

http://uk.news.yahoo...-022235028.html

 

Gah, someone beat me to these 2 imporant issues. Damn you Hefner! :)

 

How many people are being paid to do nothing? That right there is a drain on an economy because you're levying taxes to pour money down a rat hole.

 

It's a Safety net not a Hammock.

 

The more welfare you have and the more public assistance you have is a band-aid on the problem, it does not fix the problem of the needing public assistance. Could Isamard Kingdom Brunel do today what he did in the 1800s? If not, why not?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Austerity is like cutting your household expenses. What exactly are you cutting when you cut down your expenditures? Are you turning off the heat? Are you buying less beer? Are you buying less food? What are you doing. If you cut off your heat and water and buy more cheap but not good food and ramp up the beer expenditures to make yourself feel better, you're probably NOT going to come out of that very well set.

 

Cut back the luxuries, cut back to what's absolutely necessary. That's proper austerity. Bang for the buck is what you're looking for.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Austerity is like cutting your household expenses. What exactly are you cutting when you cut down your expenditures? Are you turning off the heat? Are you buying less beer? Are you buying less food? What are you doing. If you cut off your heat and water and buy more cheap but not good food and ramp up the beer expenditures to make yourself feel better, you're probably NOT going to come out of that very well set.

 

Cut back the luxuries, cut back to what's absolutely necessary. That's proper austerity. Bang for the buck is what you're looking for.

 

When we object to tax raises, we are always told that rapists are going to be let out of prison and fire departments are going to be cut, since there is no money (because absolutely nothing else can be cut!). Are we seeing the equivalent of that?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, if we can get the Germans and Japanese to bomb and shell Europe and Asia into the stone age and then the US can bomb those two into ruins the US and UK can rise again like post WWII, They will have the only economies left standing. That my friends is a formula for success like the New Deal had.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Isn't Likud-Kadima just Likud-Likud? I swear that Arik is using Jedi mind tricks on everyone and running the whole show from his secret villain's lair/villa overlooking the Med.

Hiring and supporting the less able is about 'doing the right thing'. In SE Asia, it is very common to see blind persons selling small trinkets and things on the street. People support them by buying these things. They make an honest living and are proud of doing so. Most will not take charity and I have had several insist that I take my change. Again, it is about doing the right thing. Sometimes, you get assholes who exploit this. Often they too get the right thing. And the left. Repeat as necessary.

Edited by Simon Tan
Link to post
Share on other sites

When we object to tax raises, we are always told that rapists are going to be let out of prison and fire departments are going to be cut, since there is no money (because absolutely nothing else can be cut!). Are we seeing the equivalent of that?

 

An example of the fear-mongering can be found in public school budgets. The city of Virginia Beach has been having battles over tax rates and city budgets for several years now. Every time the pols try to zero out increases in the school budget, the school system announces that they will lay off N teachers. The local press trumps that up, parents get enraged, and the city either cuts elsewhere or increases taxes. Nobody ever asks why the school system can't distribute pay cuts (or at least suspend annual raises) amongst its administrative staff, rather than cut teachers. And this is the city that planned to buy an iPad for every student, not too long ago. Average annual expenditure per student was over $11,000 in 2010, above the national average.

Link to post
Share on other sites

There is a flipside to that coin. In the 1950s a company was set up to employ disabled and mobility impaired people making furniture called remploy. (Looking into it they do other work too).That ticked over for the past 50 years quite happily, still the Government decided to shut down almost all of it, making the workers redundant.

 

Was it making money or just a cost center to sink money into? Paying people to work on things that's just make work is a luxury. If they were making money, even just getting by, why shut it down? Why not spin it off as it's own independent company with the employees as owners?

 

However nobody is hiring now, so all thats happened is several thousand people have been dumped on the dole. And not only the dole but I suspect they are also going to claim to get and visit the job centre ever 2 weeks to sign on. And then there is their welfare on top of their welfare and so on (ie employing carers they wouldnt need if they were working with a large group of simiarly afflicted individuals). Now whilst LONG TERM state employment Im totally against, in this case leaving a loss making concern running and partially subidizing these peoples pensions and healthcare would strike me as a smart thing to do till the economy picks up.

 

Why is the economy down? Is it down in part because of the drag of the tax structure making the money available for all those people on the dole.

 

 

As for the IK Brunel point, fair one. Its worth pointing out the country stopped producing individuals like that after the 1860s, so its not as if the problem is a new one.

 

Could a company decide to do those sorts of things, absent government saying it needed it done and waving money at them?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Was it making money or just a cost center to sink money into? Paying people to work on things that's just make work is a luxury. If they were making money, even just getting by, why shut it down? Why not spin it off as it's own independent company with the employees as owners?

 

Overall it saved money. However, that money came out of different budgets, so the profit isn't readily apparent. And they couldn't spin it off, because that would be a smart thing to do. It is the tories, after all :glare:

 

Why is the economy down? Is it down in part because of the drag of the tax structure making the money available for all those people on the dole.

 

I prefer to blame those who took unaccepable risks with other peoples money. Less taxes wouldn't have really stopped them

 

Could a company decide to do those sorts of things, absent government saying it needed it done and waving money at them?

 

They're trying. companies in other countries are more successful, but they're trying.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Austerity my ass.

This link (in Greek) says that the government announced the yearly plan for 140.000 farmers to be given free or nearly freee holidays ! This includes 8 days in a hotel with 3 day excursions for wife and children.

 

Plus for 300.000 farmers the subsidy for 20 euros for book purchases is also included.

http://www.imerisia.gr/article.asp?catid=12336&subid=2&pubid=112854624

 

This from a country that is on the verge of complete anarchy and will not have enough money to pay salaries by mid June...

austerity my ass, they have just found the goose that lays the golden aggs and they will milk it till death.

Edited by Mistral
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...