Indian Armed Forces Today?

[Simon Tan]

Even if we assume a mix of tactical and strategic targets lit up by Pakistani nukes, I could prolly still go to Goa for a holiday. Punjab, Sind, not so much,

 

Simon

[crazyinsane105]

I suspect even 3 nukes would shatter Pakistan and it's hold on most of it territory. I suspect the NWF and Baluchistan would declare themselves independent in a heartbeat. Still the reality that much of India would survive and very little of Pakistan helps Pakistan avoid any temptation to get completely stupid. It is possible that their proxy wars could stumble into a larger conflict.Problem of course is that India has to divide it's attention between Pakistan and China. In a perfect Indian world, you would have a Afghanistan friendly with Iran and cold to Pakistan forcing Pakistan to guard two frontiers against conventional forces.

 

Same exact thing would happen to India with around 30 or 40 nukes. And this isn't even taking into the account the ensuing radiation that would hang over the Indian subcontinent for decades on end. I've read studies that indicated a nuclear exchange between Pakistan and India would spread deadly doses of radiation as far as Western Europe depending on the wind patterns. So no, neither country would exist. And even if they did, better pack a bunch of bottled water unless you plan on drinking straight from the local tap which will more likely than not be contaminated with radiation particles as well...

[Guest nawang]

Wouldn't say that. Pakistani MBTs are more than a match for Arjuns.

 

On top of that, the Indian military doesn't have much of an advantage when it comes to self propelled artillery pieces. The Pak military has more of those and those numbers are steadily increasing as well. As for the T-90s, they'll definitely be the dominant tank in the Indian arsenal. Whether they can blitzkrieg through Sindh and Punjab against Pakistani armor and artillery is another story, but I seriously doubt a large scale conflict will be occurring anytime soon within that region.

 

Sure youre are joking.whats tanks do the pakistan have that is superior to to T90s let alone the Arjun ? and abput the SPG check the numbers it is not so great difference and the Tube artillery of india is much much higher in number.

[crazyinsane105]

Wouldn't say that. Pakistani MBTs are more than a match for Arjuns.

 

On top of that, the Indian military doesn't have much of an advantage when it comes to self propelled artillery pieces. The Pak military has more of those and those numbers are steadily increasing as well. As for the T-90s, they'll definitely be the dominant tank in the Indian arsenal. Whether they can blitzkrieg through Sindh and Punjab against Pakistani armor and artillery is another story, but I seriously doubt a large scale conflict will be occurring anytime soon within that region.

 

Sure youre are joking.whats tanks do the pakistan have that is superior to to T90s let alone the Arjun ? and abput the SPG check the numbers it is not so great difference and the Tube artillery of india is much much higher in number.

 

Never said Pakistan had anything superior to T-90s, now did I? As for the Arjun, if it was such a great tank, it would have been inducted in sheer numbers to replace India's aging T-72s. Fact is that India can't mass produce enough of it in a timely manner, hence the T-90s. The number of Arjuns being inducted is quite small in comparison to the T-90s, so in any small scale high intensity conflict, the T-90s will be India's primary tank, not the Arjun.

 

As for the number of SPGs, Pakistan is steadily receiving more from both Turkey and China so the numbers online are a bit lower. Tube artillery is where India has an advantage, there's no disagreement there.

[X-Files]

(Reuters) - India successfully test-fired on Thursday a nuclear-capable missile that can reach Beijing and Eastern Europe, thrusting the emerging Asian power into a small club of nations that can deploy nuclear weapons at such a great distance.

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/19/us-india-missile-idUSBRE83I03Z20120419

[Yalmuk]

Agni V is a 50-ton missile with range of "only" 5000km, Indians say that is far at it goes with it's current warhead. If that is all true, then Indians are seriously lacking behind others countries... 250-300kt warhead what weights over 1000kg's.

[Colin]

I suspect even 3 nukes would shatter Pakistan and it's hold on most of it territory. I suspect the NWF and Baluchistan would declare themselves independent in a heartbeat. Still the reality that much of India would survive and very little of Pakistan helps Pakistan avoid any temptation to get completely stupid. It is possible that their proxy wars could stumble into a larger conflict.Problem of course is that India has to divide it's attention between Pakistan and China. In a perfect Indian world, you would have a Afghanistan friendly with Iran and cold to Pakistan forcing Pakistan to guard two frontiers against conventional forces.

 

Same exact thing would happen to India with around 30 or 40 nukes. And this isn't even taking into the account the ensuing radiation that would hang over the Indian subcontinent for decades on end. I've read studies that indicated a nuclear exchange between Pakistan and India would spread deadly doses of radiation as far as Western Europe depending on the wind patterns. So no, neither country would exist. And even if they did, better pack a bunch of bottled water unless you plan on drinking straight from the local tap which will more likely than not be contaminated with radiation particles as well...

 

I have to wonder, when you think about how many nukes they tested in Nevada, I suspect that fallout would not be as bad as envisoned. Don't get me wrong, it would be bad and have long term effects, but I suspect much of the population would survive and continue to live there, despite the cancer rates and such.

[Simon Tan]

If they tossed them in the Punjab, we would miss the good basmati. This US stuff sucks.

Fortunately, I have now discovered awesome hill rice from Yunan. Unfortunately, it requires a trip to Yunan to enjoy it.

[crazyinsane105]

I suspect even 3 nukes would shatter Pakistan and it's hold on most of it territory. I suspect the NWF and Baluchistan would declare themselves independent in a heartbeat. Still the reality that much of India would survive and very little of Pakistan helps Pakistan avoid any temptation to get completely stupid. It is possible that their proxy wars could stumble into a larger conflict.Problem of course is that India has to divide it's attention between Pakistan and China. In a perfect Indian world, you would have a Afghanistan friendly with Iran and cold to Pakistan forcing Pakistan to guard two frontiers against conventional forces.

 

Same exact thing would happen to India with around 30 or 40 nukes. And this isn't even taking into the account the ensuing radiation that would hang over the Indian subcontinent for decades on end. I've read studies that indicated a nuclear exchange between Pakistan and India would spread deadly doses of radiation as far as Western Europe depending on the wind patterns. So no, neither country would exist. And even if they did, better pack a bunch of bottled water unless you plan on drinking straight from the local tap which will more likely than not be contaminated with radiation particles as well...

 

I have to wonder, when you think about how many nukes they tested in Nevada, I suspect that fallout would not be as bad as envisoned. Don't get me wrong, it would be bad and have long term effects, but I suspect much of the population would survive and continue to live there, despite the cancer rates and such.

 

Good point, though they were detonating one nuclear weapon at a time. In this case it would be about 100-300 nukes going off at a minimum. The glaciers in Kashmir would pretty much vaporize and that would halt the water supply to much of the Indian subcontinent's water supply (not to mention contaminate it). Living through the nuke blast and its radiation may not be as bad as the radioactive effects will eventually subside, but put those same radiation particles in the water supply that nearly a billion people depend on, or just take away much of the water supply altogether...yeah, not sure how much a country will be left.

[X-Files]

China said upcoming joint war games between China and Russia were not organised in response to India's successful ballistic missile launch and were instead aimed at upholding regional peace.

 

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/chinarussia-war-games-not-linked-to-india-missile/939303/

[Cookie Monster]

I suspect even 3 nukes would shatter Pakistan and it's hold on most of it territory. I suspect the NWF and Baluchistan would declare themselves independent in a heartbeat. Still the reality that much of India would survive and very little of Pakistan helps Pakistan avoid any temptation to get completely stupid. It is possible that their proxy wars could stumble into a larger conflict.Problem of course is that India has to divide it's attention between Pakistan and China. In a perfect Indian world, you would have a Afghanistan friendly with Iran and cold to Pakistan forcing Pakistan to guard two frontiers against conventional forces.

 

Same exact thing would happen to India with around 30 or 40 nukes. And this isn't even taking into the account the ensuing radiation that would hang over the Indian subcontinent for decades on end. I've read studies that indicated a nuclear exchange between Pakistan and India would spread deadly doses of radiation as far as Western Europe depending on the wind patterns. So no, neither country would exist. And even if they did, better pack a bunch of bottled water unless you plan on drinking straight from the local tap which will more likely than not be contaminated with radiation particles as well...

 

I have to wonder, when you think about how many nukes they tested in Nevada, I suspect that fallout would not be as bad as envisoned. Don't get me wrong, it would be bad and have long term effects, but I suspect much of the population would survive and continue to live there, despite the cancer rates and such.

 

Good point, though they were detonating one nuclear weapon at a time. In this case it would be about 100-300 nukes going off at a minimum. The glaciers in Kashmir would pretty much vaporize and that would halt the water supply to much of the Indian subcontinent's water supply (not to mention contaminate it). Living through the nuke blast and its radiation may not be as bad as the radioactive effects will eventually subside, but put those same radiation particles in the water supply that nearly a billion people depend on, or just take away much of the water supply altogether...yeah, not sure how much a country will be left.

 

: Keep dreaming and go back to your geology and physics classes. The only effect would be that you would vaporize your own drinking water supplies.

[crazyinsane105]

http://india.nydailynews.com/newsarticle/4f983821c110c0a75c000000/global-famine-if-india-pakistan-unleash-nukes

 

 

Global famine if India, Pakistan unleash nukes

 

If India and Pakistan engage in a ‘limited’ nuclear war, more than a billion people could suffer from famine due to climate disruptions. Corn production in the US would decline by 10 percent for a decade and soybean production would decrease by 10 percent for five years.

Wednesday, April 25th 2012

[Simon Tan]

So a reduction of Ethanol and corn syrup production would be needed.

[urbanoid]

That 'global famine' wouldn't probably affect the US or Yurrop (and other developed regions), both are able to produce a lot more food than they need. Also no substantial extraction of oil (it's price has quite an effect on food prices) or other strategic resources in both countries.

 

The article says that 'more than a billion people' would suffer from famine, but this would be mostly a 'local billion'.

[crazyinsane105]

That 'global famine' wouldn't probably affect the US or Yurrop (and other developed regions), both are able to produce a lot more food than they need. Also no substantial extraction of oil (it's price has quite an effect on food prices) or other strategic resources in both countries.

 

The article says that 'more than a billion people' would suffer from famine, but this would be mostly a 'local billion'.

 

Yup, most of the casualties will be in the subcontinent and probably not elsewhere. Of course we have fundamentalists on both sides of the camp who think they're country will just walk off a nuclear program no problem. Good thing none of them are in charge of what happens there.

[nitin]

That 'global famine' wouldn't probably affect the US or Yurrop (and other developed regions), both are able to produce a lot more food than they need. Also no substantial extraction of oil (it's price has quite an effect on food prices) or other strategic resources in both countries.

 

The article says that 'more than a billion people' would suffer from famine, but this would be mostly a 'local billion'.

 

I'd take most of these scaremongering articles with a tub of salt. The fact is India lives in the villages, still and despite all the issues they are still getting by with minimal assistance from the Govt. Tier 2 and Tier 3 cities are growing as well. The Indian economy's growth generators - ie its handful of metros may be affected by a nuclear war, but Colin/Simon Tan are right that fundamentally, India is too big for Pakistan to effectively destroy. Its armed forces are also heavily spread out and targeting them alone would take a huge arsenal, with questionable effectiveness to boot. Then there are the reserve units, the central armed paramilitaries etc. Pakistan on the other hand is both geographically and ethnically vulnerable thanks to the overdominance of the Punjab region in its Govt, federal structure and armed forces. They are basically just trying the unwinnable by trying to constantly come up with "something" to somehow defeat/checkmate a country 7X larger, and with a much stronger economy and technological profile (India is ready to begin phase 1 deployment of its BMD system, and an Advanced Air Defence network based on the LR/MRSAM program with Israel is in development - which means a huge number of Pakistan's current nuclear launch platforms will find it very hard to get to key Indian targets). With such an issue, its just Pakistani cussedness and fundamentalism (Islamic superiority to the heathens whom they broke off from), that is making them pursue a Establishment agenda (official sponsorship of terrorism) which is destabilizing and causes the threat of war.

 

I wonder how long Pakistan's antics can continue. It sponsored jihadis to fight India, but with the Army sealing off Kashmir from terror & the slow and steady increase in combating Pakistani insurgency even otherwise (woken up by the Mumbai attacks), plus the Indian growth continuing even so (I am Indian and the rise of the economic and youth demographic is seriously bewildering at times)...all Pakistan has done is create a new fundamentalist monster that can bite its own master. The attacks on PA HQ, the Pakistani Naval base etc are just a sign of the times. Even if America were to withdraw from 'Ghan in defeat (as most Pakistanis fervently wish for, judging from their virulence in opposing the US/ISAF), these guys will not be able to defeat the Indian Army/cross the border. How long before these so called holy warriors realize that the path to power in Pakistan is achievable via the power of the gun, and the Pakistani Army does not like sharing power? Things are unlikely to be as easy as before. A lot of battle hardened Islamists have fought and killed Pakistanis already and consider themselves more Islamic than the Pakistani Army.

[nitin]

Wouldn't say that. Pakistani MBTs are more than a match for Arjuns.

 

On top of that, the Indian military doesn't have much of an advantage when it comes to self propelled artillery pieces. The Pak military has more of those and those numbers are steadily increasing as well. As for the T-90s, they'll definitely be the dominant tank in the Indian arsenal. Whether they can blitzkrieg through Sindh and Punjab against Pakistani armor and artillery is another story, but I seriously doubt a large scale conflict will be occurring anytime soon within that region.

 

Sure youre are joking.whats tanks do the pakistan have that is superior to to T90s let alone the Arjun ? and abput the SPG check the numbers it is not so great difference and the Tube artillery of india is much much higher in number.

 

Never said Pakistan had anything superior to T-90s, now did I? As for the Arjun, if it was such a great tank, it would have been inducted in sheer numbers to replace India's aging T-72s. Fact is that India can't mass produce enough of it in a timely manner, hence the T-90s. The number of Arjuns being inducted is quite small in comparison to the T-90s, so in any small scale high intensity conflict, the T-90s will be India's primary tank, not the Arjun.

 

The Arjun is not replacing the T-72s one on one, because the T-72s have a lot of life left in them & after an overhaul-modernization package can still face anything Pakistan/China have. The Indian Army is cost conscious and wants to rationalize its spend across different areas. In terms of Arjun 248 are on order & more are expected once the MK2 clears trials. The Arjun is clearly being earmarked for the deserts to take out the Pakistani armour in that sector, while the lighter T-90/T-72s can work with existing engineering equipment in the Punjab and other areas where logistics will play a huge role in taking on/succeeding against Pakistani fortifications/water barriers etc.

 

As for the number of SPGs, Pakistan is steadily receiving more from both Turkey and China so the numbers online are a bit lower. Tube artillery is where India has an advantage, there's no disagreement there.

 

The way things are shaping up, that advantage in SPGs may remain transitory at best. Arty is the area where new inductions have been stalled (perhaps deliberately) for almost 26 years, but now many inductions are finally in the pipeline, starting with new tube artillery.

[Vuk]

Any one here have the World Defence Almanac listing of Indian inventories?

[Colin]

India just tested a 700mile ballistic missile, does this change things for the balance of power or just testing already known abilities?

[Vuk]

700 mile? That somewhere between the Agni I & II in range. Sure it isn´t a cruise missile?

[crazyinsane105]

India just tested a 700mile ballistic missile, does this change things for the balance of power or just testing already known abilities?

 

Both countries possess ballistic missiles with far greater range than 700 miles. Its just a routine test, that's all.

[istvan47]

Indian armed forces have still the war elephants ?

[JWB]

The Shame Of India

 

 

...a notorious broker, conman and "fixer" (Abhishek Verma) was arrested because he was at the center of a network of active and retired officers and Defense Ministry bureaucrats who arranged for military secrets to be leaked and bribes to be paid.

 

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htproc/20120731.aspx#startofcomments

[Simon Tan]

Uhhh...that is pretty much par everywhere. The cardinal rule is not to get caught.

[Colin]

Indian armed forces have still the war elephants ?

 

I would not be surprised if there is a dusty document that supports a base and a detachment that maintains "war elephants" I also would not be surprised that enough funds are funneled through this program to maintain a fleet of 200 tanks.