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Ever a Conspiracy Theory Proven True?


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Correct me if I'm wrong, but is Paul considered a source for a final pronouncement on such things? As I recall, he was an apostle, and while that's automatically going to give him some credibility, it's not as though we have the literal word of God on the matter. Paul may merely have been expressing the widespread abhorrence of his culture at the time towards what were then-mainstream Greek and Roman practices. Had we a quotation from Jesus, on the other hand, I'd think we'd be a lot clearer on the issue. Paul, despite being an apostle, is still human and fallible under almost all interpretations of the situation I'm aware of.

 

I honestly can't think of anywhere Jesus himself is said to have even addressed the issue of gays. Judging from his "cast the first stone" way of thought when it came to whores, I'm sorta unwilling to take Paul's word on gays being abhorrent to God.

 

Of course, that's one of the delights of the Bible: So many contradictions.

 

 

Paul wasn't an apostle, he never met Christ, save for spiritually on the road to Jerusalem. He was a Jewish persecutor of Christians, who had a vision of Christ who asked him, "Why do you persecute me?" He did an on-the-spot conversion and was a primary mover for the spread of Christianity throughout the Empire.

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How did a comment claiming that the only people who use guns in Western Europe now are Muslim dads killing their daughters," transform to questions about firearms legislation in Germany? Jim Martin, where is your evidence of that? Why the attempt to bluster and change the topic when you were questioned on it?

 

Because Tommy seems to be trying to pick a fight with me on a few threads, and it's tiresome. He challenged me, and I replied. Firearms laws in Western European societies are far more restrictive than they were even a century ago, and frankly, it doesn't bode well for a society when its populace is so estranged from the means of self defense, for both protection of the family and home, and the defense of society as a whole. BTW, I spent 4 years in Germany as a child, I've visited since on vacation, I love Germany and Western Europe in general. Just some of the people (Tomas) annoy the fuck out of me....

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Paul wasn't an apostle, he never met Christ, save for spiritually on the road to Jerusalem. He was a Jewish persecutor of Christians, who had a vision of Christ who asked him, "Why do you persecute me?" He did an on-the-spot conversion and was a primary mover for the spread of Christianity throughout the Empire.

 

Cripes... I knew that. What the hell was I thinking?

 

Although, that gives even less credence to the idea that he had the authority to speak for God RE: gays...

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What about women who don't eat pussy? They are barred from being ordained in most mainstream denominations. Women were claimed to be unclean and to have sex with them, other than for means of procreation was also considered a sin?

 

As for Homosexuality, God also created gay men and women. Are you suggesting that God made a mistake? I always understood that admonishment was in The Old Testament, not the new and Christianity was about the message of Christ, as delivered in The New Testament. Perhaps you're reading the wrong half of your Bible?

 

God made Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Hitler, Genghis Khan, Tamerlaine, Milosevic, John Wayne Gacey, Jeffrey Dahmer, and all those RC Priests who molested little boys. Did any of them belong behind a pulpit?

 

There has been a good bit of writing blaming the RC Church scandals on loosening of standards in the '60's and '70s to allow closeted homosexuals into the clergy. And don't give me that bullshit about homosexuality not equating to pedophilia. In every society where homosexuality is openly practised, from ancient Greece to modern Afghanistan, young boys are highly prized as "partners". Lord Baden Powell and his buddies loved to look at pics of naked young boys on Baden-Powell's summer camps. There's a clear linkage.

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There has been a good bit of writing blaming the RC Church scandals on loosening of standards in the '60's and '70s to allow closeted homosexuals into the clergy. And don't give me that bullshit about homosexuality not equating to pedophilia.

 

Anecdotes from separate friends who tried to enter the priesthood had the same feature: they left when they found out the seminary was nothing but a big gay hook-up fest.

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Because Tommy seems to be trying to pick a fight with me on a few threads, and it's tiresome. He challenged me, and I replied. Firearms laws in Western European societies are far more restrictive than they were even a century ago, and frankly, it doesn't bode well for a society when its populace is so estranged from the means of self defense, for both protection of the family and home, and the defense of society as a whole. BTW, I spent 4 years in Germany as a child, I've visited since on vacation, I love Germany and Western Europe in general. Just some of the people (Tomas) annoy the fuck out of me....

 

Oh boo f*cking hoo...

 

If replying to two of your posts sprouting obvious codswallop about other countries already constitutes to picking a fight, so be it.

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Paul wasn't an apostle, he never met Christ, save for spiritually on the road to Jerusalem. He was a Jewish persecutor of Christians, who had a vision of Christ who asked him, "Why do you persecute me?" He did an on-the-spot conversion and was a primary mover for the spread of Christianity throughout the Empire.

 

Apparently also Roman citizen, who had been cruxified on spot, if not that. Alas, he had right to apply for Emperor, which caused him to shipwreck here... I'd be harsh to think this had something to do with Maltese people. I think Mr. Paul was just ass-hat and religious fanatic with petty peeves.

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A 5" blade is bigger than what many states allow you to carry. I looked up laws in the south, and the best I read was 4" in Tennessee.

 

Well, I didn't meant to imply that the stuff they smoke in germany isn't shared liberally with other legislative institutions around the globe. There might be a small difference because we happen to have bread over here, which usually has to be tackled with a knife a wee bit longer than those aforementioned 12 cm. So try to imagine yourself to buy a new kitchen knife (available on pick-yourself display in every hardware store), and ask the sales girl to wrap it up reeeaaal good, put a lot of tape around it (some more, please, if you don't mind!) in order to comply to german weapons law to get it back home.

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When was the last time you forced your wife to cover herself from head to toe and forbade her to talk to other men?

The USA was a nation of savages 230 years ago? Today our brides still wear veils, a vestige of virginal women being required to hide their faces from men. Nor was it so long ago that women and girls could not venture out of doors without some type of head (hair) covering. And let us not forget that planned marriages and doweries were still common just 150 years ago.

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Anecdotes from separate friends who tried to enter the priesthood had the same feature: they left when they found out the seminary was nothing but a big gay hook-up fest.

 

I might be wrong but I read somewhere that the majority of ('current crop'?) Pedo Priests come from a handful of Seminaries in SoCal...

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The USA was a nation of savages 230 years ago? Today our brides still wear veils, a vestige of virginal women being required to hide their faces from men. Nor was it so long ago that women and girls could not venture out of doors without some type of head (hair) covering. And let us not forget that planned marriages and doweries were still common just 150 years ago.

 

Heck Dave, my family in the old country had that: My Grandma, a Greek from Asia Minor, always wore a headcovering outside the house; my Mom & my cousin were both 'planned marriages'.

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The USA was a nation of savages 230 years ago? Today our brides still wear veils, a vestige of virginal women being required to hide their faces from men. Nor was it so long ago that women and girls could not venture out of doors without some type of head (hair) covering. And let us not forget that planned marriages and doweries were still common just 150 years ago.

Also, to expand beyond just 'us' (the West) to other societies nobody calls 'savages', those features are a whole lot more recent than 100 years ago. And IME with people from cultures where arranged marriage was still common up till recently, it's not obvious it results in unhappier unions than are typical in our society nowadays. I wouldn't like the idea for myself, but just observing in general and trying to be objective, the grave evil of arranged marriage per se is not obvious to me. And full women's rights in the West is not more than a few decades old at most, and not everyone of a conservative persuasion is sold on it, my readings on Tanknet over the years have told me. ;)

 

As far as traditional Christian sexual teachings, they are also highly hostile to today's 'dating' culture among heterosexuals (not to mention porn, sex in 'mainline' entertainment and advertizing, etc), not just homosexuality. There's real potential for ridiculous inconsistency to complain about gay rights on a Christian basis and ignore Paul's teachings you don't like as modern hetero. They're a lot more extensive, and moreover are more strongly implied in Jesus' own words (though He didn't dwell directly on sexual topics much); whereas Jesus never clearly mentioned homosexuality at all. And His message to love everyone is absolutely clear*, so hateful attitude toward any group with Christian teaching as the supposed source is categorically BS.

 

All that said, of course there are systemic problems in Muslim societies which rise to the level of being our business in Western societies because they affect us seriously. But, some of the comparisons and cherry picks used to criticize Muslims are ridiculously selective. And they are often clearly un-Christian, so should not associate themselves with Christianity even indirectly, IMO.

 

*it's a theological debate the degree to which Jesus' direct teachings override everything, but the literalist Protestant view that everything in the Bible is equally true is incomprehensible to me either as Catholic or just objective person: many things clearly contradict one another if taken literally, especially Old Testament teachings v the Gospels, and Jesus literally said He was teaching something new.

 

Joe

Edited by JOE BRENNAN
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God made Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Hitler, Genghis Khan, Tamerlaine, Milosevic, John Wayne Gacey, Jeffrey Dahmer, and all those RC Priests who molested little boys. Did any of them belong behind a pulpit?

Stalin and Milosevic (...His father, the Serb Orthodox deacon Svetozar Milošević wanted him to become priest...). :P

 

There has been a good bit of writing blaming the RC Church scandals on loosening of standards in the '60's and '70s to allow closeted homosexuals into the clergy.

Those things happened way before that. It is just the fact that it is easier to know it nation wide today.

 

...Lord Baden Powell and his buddies loved to look at pics of naked young boys on Baden-Powell's summer camps. There's a clear linkage.

 

Watched "The Eagle" which was based on a book that I liked as a kid - and now when I look back it is so full of homosexual allusions that you have to wonder WTF was in author's mind when he was writing it. Brits are also responsible for changing vampires from monsters to gay/lesbo fantasies which is something I will never forgive them - you should be afraid for your life, not your ass... :lol:

More I think about it more I am convinced that Victorian age gave us a lot of negative in society in general... :wacko:

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Stalin and Milosevic (...His father, the Serb Orthodox deacon Svetozar Milošević wanted him to become priest...). :P

 

PASTOR'S KIDS! :rolleyes:

Those things happened way before that. It is just the fact that it is easier to know it nation wide today.

 

 

 

you should be afraid for your life, not your ass... :lol:

 

 

^

No truer words spoken. LOL

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Show of hands, who here has dated women who were married to Muslims? Who here has witnessed Muslim treatment of his female friends firsthand? I have done both. They're fucking savages.

 

Ask a "moderate" Muslim what the Koran says about the Jews. I've had a number of lengthy discussions about just that subject with a "moderate" but observant Muslim.

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Stalin and Milosevic (His father which was IIRC deacon in Serb Orthodox Church and wanted him to become priest...). :P

 

 

Those things happened way before that. It is just the fact that it is easier to know it nation wide today.

 

 

 

Watched "The Eagle" which was based on a book that I liked as a kid - and now when I look back it is so full of homosexual allusions that you have to wonder WTF was in author's mind when he was writing it. Brits are also responsible for changing vampires from monsters to gay/lesbo fantasies which is something I will never forgive them - you should be afraid for your life, not your ass... :lol:

More I think about it more I am convinced that Victorian age gave us a lot of negative in society in general... :wacko:

 

I think you're probably right, and the sad fact is that youth will always have a sexual attraction going on in the hindbrain of most adults, whether or not we want to admit it. Hell, I've caught myself eyeing young women from behind or in profile, and thinking "Wow... She looks good..." while simultaneously having that reptilian part of my brain going "Uh-huh...". A few moments later, I feel horrible about myself, because I get close enough to recognize (relatively) extreme youth. Of course, the attraction is purely physical, and fades as soon as they open their mouths and talk, but I think you'd recognize the scenario if you're still breathing and male...

 

Had an interesting conversation one time with a guy who I'm still not too sure about. He made a damn good point, tho: I'd been arguing that pedophilia and incest were aberrant, and not that common. He stopped me dead, however, when he asked me the following: "If it's not that popular or common, explain the whole "Who's your daddy!!!" thing to me, and also tell me why so many women get off on it? Why do so many married men and women refer to their mates as "mommy" or "daddy"? I mean, those are people they're having sex with, right? Wouldn't using that word put you off, if that sort of thing weren't at least somewhat normal?".

 

After I reflected a bit on it, I realized he had a damn point. There's something primal in that kind of crap, and I think it has deep ties to our baser, animal natures along with the need to dominate/control. I note that many child abusers that I've known and see in the media are really pitiful people who have very little control over aspects of their lives, and who thus seek out the company of those they can dominate and control.

 

The question I have is twofold: What's been the actual rate of these sorts of things throughout history, and are we experiencing a surge in the rate due to the increasing permissiveness and lack of social restraint we've been inculcating in society? I've continuously been shocked to hear of situations over the years where I'd have never guessed what the hell was going on from the outside of the family--To include wife- and kid-swapping in a very well-to-do family. And, then there are opposite cases, like we had near my hometown, where a young lady made numerous false accusations through her police detective guardian, and put several people into prison for things that are flatly unbelievable. Most of that whole situation wound up in acquittals because the actual evidence was so damn skimpy. I've dated women who were so delusional that they told me voluminous and consistent stories of childhood sexual abuse by their fathers, only to find out later that dear old dad had been dead when she was a toddler. According to her sister, her mom had been so heartbroken that she'd never even dated after his death, which didn't jibe very well with her tales of losing her post-menarche virginity to her dad... Turns out there was a reason her mother didn't talk to her, anymore.

 

So, you look at all that, as someone not involved in enforcement or "the lifestyle", and you have to wonder what the hell the actual rate of such things was then, and is now. I'm not sure there's any way to tell, really. Men like Sandusky have been taking advantage of boys since the Greeks, and I don't think it's going to stop just because we want it to.

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Ask a "moderate" Muslim what the Koran says about the Jews.

 

Have you actually ever y'know, READ the book you make so much commentary about? It says relatively little about "the Jews", because Muhammed did not really deal with "the Jews". He dealt with some people who happened to be Jews and his friends, and some other people who happened to be Jews and his enemies and most of the quotes about Jews (and pagans and Christians etc) in the book concern specific groups of people.

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Have you actually ever y'know, READ the book you make so much commentary about? It says relatively little about "the Jews", because Muhammed did not really deal with "the Jews". He dealt with some people who happened to be Jews and his friends, and some other people who happened to be Jews and his enemies and most of the quotes about Jews (and pagans and Christians etc) in the book concern specific groups of people.

 

It's apparent you're not familiar with the book. The Prophet personally ordered the assassination of a prominent Jew, and the Koran specifically orders the murder of all Jews.

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Had an interesting conversation one time with a guy who I'm still not too sure about. He made a damn good point, tho: I'd been arguing that pedophilia and incest were aberrant, and not that common. He stopped me dead, however, when he asked me the following: "If it's not that popular or common, explain the whole "Who's your daddy!!!" thing to me, and also tell me why so many women get off on it? Why do so many married men and women refer to their mates as "mommy" or "daddy"? I mean, those are people they're having sex with, right? Wouldn't using that word put you off, if that sort of thing weren't at least somewhat normal?".

 

After I reflected a bit on it, I realized he had a damn point. There's something primal in that kind of crap, and I think it has deep ties to our baser, animal natures along with the need to dominate/control. I note that many child abusers that I've known and see in the media are really pitiful people who have very little control over aspects of their lives, and who thus seek out the company of those they can dominate and control.

 

 

That has nothing to do with pedophilia. That is about conjuring our earliest experiences of affection, ie, "worked back then, works now."

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It's apparent you're not familiar with the book. The Prophet personally ordered the assassination of a prominent Jew, and the Koran specifically orders the murder of all Jews.

 

1. Because he was a Jew, or for some other reason?

2. Show me the quote, if you're so familiar with it then.

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1. Because he was a Jew, or for some other reason?

2. Show me the quote, if you're so familiar with it then.

 

 

I'm with family and posting from my phone, but why don't you do your own motherfucking research, smart guy? I googled "Mohammed assassination of Jew" and it's just fucking amazing the number of topical hits I got.

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Have you actually ever y'know, READ the book you make so much commentary about? It says relatively little about "the Jews", because Muhammed did not really deal with "the Jews". He dealt with some people who happened to be Jews and his friends, and some other people who happened to be Jews and his enemies and most of the quotes about Jews (and pagans and Christians etc) in the book concern specific groups of people.

 

As usual, you mention only one innocuous source, and neglect to discuss the more heinous ones. The Koran has also been translated differently many times over the years, and the amount of residual anti-semitism left is usually dependent on the audience the translation is aiming at.

 

I'm not going to go back and dig through all the original sources, but the Wikipedia does a fair job at outlining what the Hadith say:

 

"The hadith (recordings of deeds and sayings attributed to Muhammad) use both the terms Banu Israil and Yahud in relation to Jews, the latter term becoming ever more frequent and appearing mostly in negative context. According to Norman Stillman:

 

"Jews in Medina are singled out as "men whose malice and enmity was aimed at the Apostle of God". The Yahūd in this literature appear not only as malicious, but also deceitful, cowardly and totally lacking resolve. However, they have none of the demonic qualities attributed to them in mediaeval Christian literature, neither is there anything comparable to the overwhelming preoccupation with Jews and Judaism (except perhaps in the narratives on Muhammad's encounters with Medinan Jewry) in Muslim traditional literature. Except for a few notable exceptions... the Jews in the Sira and the Maghazi are even heroic villains. Their ignominy stands in marked contrast to Muslim heroism, and in general, conforms to the Qura'nic image of "wretchedness and baseness stamped upon them""

 

He said:

 

"The Day of Judgement will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Muslims, O Abdullah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews." (related by al-Bukhari and Muslim).Sahih Muslim, 41:6985, see also Sahih Muslim, 41:6981, Sahih Muslim, 41:6982, Sahih Muslim, 41:6983, Sahih Muslim, 41:6984, Sahih al-Bukhari, 4:56:791,(Sahih al-Bukhari, 4:52:177)

 

This hadith has been quoted countless times, and it has become a part of the charter of Hamas.

 

According to Schweitzer and Perry, the hadith are "even more scathing (than the Qur'an) in attacking the Jews":

 

"They are debased, cursed, anathematized forever by God and so can never repent and be forgiven; they are cheats and traitors; defiant and stubborn; they killed the prophets; they are liars who falsify scripture and take bribes; as infidels they are ritually unclean, a foul odor emanating from them - such is the image of the Jew in classical Islam, degraded and malevolent.""

 

You can try to weasel out of it, Yama, but the fact of the matter is that the Koran and the Hadith together form the written basis for Islam, and they're objectively anti-Jew when read honestly. Unless, of course, you'd like to speak in opposition to about a thousand years of Islamic theologic thought?

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That has nothing to do with pedophilia. That is about conjuring our earliest experiences of affection, ie, "worked back then, works now."

 

Kinda what I'm getting at, there... When you stop and think about it, there's something a little disturbing when a woman wants to call you "Daddy" in a sexual situation, and when two sexual partners are calling themselves mommy and daddy, don't you find that just a little, shall we say, odd?

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