Steelspear Posted December 29, 2011 Posted December 29, 2011 Aftonbladet: http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article14143014.abBBC: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-16357000 News report a russian submarine on fire at dry dock in Murmansk.According to the same sources it is the K-84 Ekaterinburg of the Delta IV class, a strategic nuclear missile sub.The fire started outside the vessel in the scaffolding surrondig the vessel and it later spread and set the hull on fire. 11 fire trucks, a helicopter and a boat took part in the fire fighting. Flames were up to 10 meters high. The hull is covered in a noise reducing material that I assume is not metal and apparently flammable. Is it rubber or some derivative thereof?Considering the extent of the fire I would say that this sub is ready for the scrap yard. I mean how can you be sure that the metal hull is still intact and have the same hardening? If the hull is exposed to high temperatures and then rapidly cooled by water the hardening of the material could go anywhere. I wouldnt want to be the crew to test the hull integrity at sea... Delta class submarineshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta_class_submarine Same article: Delta IV classhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta_class_submarine#Delta_IV_.28Project_667BDRM.2C_Delfin.29_7_boats
bojan Posted December 29, 2011 Posted December 29, 2011 ...The hull is covered in a noise reducing material that I assume is not metal and apparently flammable. Is it rubber or some derivative thereof?Porous rubber. Somewhere I have a piece, it is nothing impressive or super secret...
Marcello Posted December 29, 2011 Posted December 29, 2011 (edited) Considering the extent of the fire I would say that this sub is ready for the scrap yard. I mean how can you be sure that the metal hull is still intact and have the same hardening? If the hull is exposed to high temperatures and then rapidly cooled by water the hardening of the material could go anywhere. I wouldnt want to be the crew to test the hull integrity at sea... Russian designs make more extensive use of double hulls, so fire might not be heating directly the pressure hull. But I don't know enough of the Delta to feel comfortable enough to make a prognosis. Porous rubber. Somewhere I have a piece, it is nothing impressive or super secret... It depends. On more modern boats there is what looks like to be a layered structure. Edited December 29, 2011 by Marcello
bojan Posted December 29, 2011 Posted December 29, 2011 ...It depends. On more modern boats there is what looks like to be a layered structure. This one is from older Soviet era diesel. Don't ask how I got it.
Steelspear Posted December 30, 2011 Author Posted December 30, 2011 This one is from older Soviet era diesel. Don't ask how I got it. Ill take a guess then: Tourist trip to Murmansk, jumping a fence and a Swizz army knife?
bojan Posted December 30, 2011 Posted December 30, 2011 Ill take a guess then: Tourist trip to Murmansk, jumping a fence and a Swizz army knife? Nope. Much more funny, includes naval yard worker and doghouse - when subs were scheduled to be scrapped scrapped in mid '90s he took a lot of coating and used it to cover among other things doghouse, I asked for a part and...
Sikkiyn Posted December 30, 2011 Posted December 30, 2011 Nope. Much more funny, includes naval yard worker and doghouse - when subs were scheduled to be scrapped scrapped in mid '90s he took a lot of coating and used it to cover among other things doghouse, I asked for a part and... I knew it!!!! Dog Flatulence played a part in this somehow.
bojan Posted December 30, 2011 Posted December 30, 2011 I knew it!!!! Dog Flatulence played a part in this somehow. You can not escape it...Cat's one (if on medical food) is nasty also.
Marek Tucan Posted December 30, 2011 Posted December 30, 2011 Nope. Much more funny, includes naval yard worker and doghouse - when subs were scheduled to be scrapped scrapped in mid '90s he took a lot of coating and used it to cover among other things doghouse, I asked for a part and... If someone wants a part of B-17 wing, just let me know Serves as a roof on a small shed in Slovakia...
bd1 Posted December 30, 2011 Posted December 30, 2011 Nope. Much more funny, includes naval yard worker and doghouse - when subs were scheduled to be scrapped scrapped in mid '90s he took a lot of coating and used it to cover among other things doghouse, I asked for a part and... i read a story some time agoi how some soviet engineer in 1970-s wanted to put up new stone tiles in the kitchen. glue was scarce, so they swapped 2 bottles of vodka for some 3 liters of glue-ish substance smuggled out from aviation enterprise. 30 years later, when they tried to re-decorate the flat, the tiles were almost impossible to get off the wall, they asked around - turned out it was glue used for helicopter rotor blades, price for this quantity roughly 300 000 USD
Sardaukar Posted December 30, 2011 Posted December 30, 2011 (edited) Some of the crap used to seal Soviet MANPADS crates still gives me creeps... Edited December 30, 2011 by Sardaukar
EchoFiveMike Posted December 31, 2011 Posted December 31, 2011 Ship hulls are not heat treated, it's going to be the Russian version of HY-80/100/120/whatever. S/F....Ken M
Lieste Posted December 31, 2011 Posted December 31, 2011 Ship hulls are not heat treated, it's going to be the Russian version of HY-80/100/120/whatever. S/F....Ken M It is heat treated now...
JOE BRENNAN Posted December 31, 2011 Posted December 31, 2011 Ship hulls are not heat treated, it's going to be the Russian version of HY-80/100/120/whatever. S/F....Ken MYes it's probably AK-29, which is comparable to HY-100 and was the steel used at least on the earlier Delta's. However while this kind of steel is not 'hardened' on purpose as the earlier post implied, it could potentially be messed up by the heat and water extinguishing of a fire. It is heat treated at the mill, quenched and tempered. Hardening is a byproduct of welding (in the heat affected zone of welds), but the process must be strictly controlled wrt heat input (preheating, postheating) and elimination of moisture (by baking the welding electrodes, etc) to prevent hydrogen assisted cracking. Lapses in those procedures have been the source of various scandals where submarine welds fail inspection and have to be redone at great cost. An uncontrolled fired of unknown temperature w/ spraying of water could introduce doubt about the integrity of the structure. Joe
Gunguy Posted December 31, 2011 Posted December 31, 2011 That sub is scrap. It burned till nothing much was left. That retires one Russian sub!
Sardaukar Posted December 31, 2011 Posted December 31, 2011 That sub is scrap. It burned till nothing much was left. That retires one Russian sub! Expensive New Year's celebration....
Marcello Posted January 1, 2012 Posted January 1, 2012 (edited) That sub is scrap. It burned till nothing much was left. That retires one Russian sub! It seems to be still there judging from one of the pictures where they are finishing with spraying ithttp://en.ria.ru/mlitary_news/20111231/170571318.html Whether it is actually reusable remain to be seen.In any case there should still be a couple of spare Typhoon hanging around... Edited January 1, 2012 by Marcello
Gunguy Posted January 4, 2012 Posted January 4, 2012 It seems to be still there judging from one of the pictures where they are finishing with spraying ithttp://en.ria.ru/mlitary_news/20111231/170571318.html Whether it is actually reusable remain to be seen.In any case there should still be a couple of spare Typhoon hanging around...Amazing! They are going to rebuild it. I bet longer than one year. Geez, they in essence will have a new sub if they really go down that path. Scrapping it would have been easier, cheaper and allowed them to do a ground up new build of whatever they wanted......I'm amazed they are messing with that burned out hulk! Nothing good happens when something burns out of control for a long time.
Steven P Allen Posted January 5, 2012 Posted January 5, 2012 If someone wants a part of B-17 wing, just let me know Serves as a roof on a small shed in Slovakia... I'm guessing the shipping coast would be prohibitive. . . .
Max H Posted January 5, 2012 Posted January 5, 2012 I'm guessing the shipping coast would be prohibitive. . . .Find the rest and it shouldn't be too bad
Marcello Posted January 5, 2012 Posted January 5, 2012 Amazing! They are going to rebuild it. I bet longer than one year. Geez, they in essence will have a new sub if they really go down that path. Scrapping it would have been easier, cheaper and allowed them to do a ground up new build of whatever they wanted......I'm amazed they are messing with that burned out hulk! Nothing good happens when something burns out of control for a long time. I think you are making a number of assumptions here. For all that we know they may just have to replace some sections of the outer hull, which is not pressure bearing,the tiles and some other equipment. Still massively cheaper than building an entire new sub from scratch. For that matter when K-19 suffered the reactor accident they cut away the reactor compartment and put in a new one. Still cheaper/faster than building a new submarine.
Gunguy Posted January 5, 2012 Posted January 5, 2012 Well, if that's true, I take my hat off to the Russian engineers and building teams that will do the work. When something burns that long out of control, you know it ruined A LOT. But if the hulls are that much money to build, then maybe they can make it a useable relatively new sub. I would have thought (my assumption) that it would cost mega bucks to cut out all of the burned scrap and rebuild. Oh well. They have their work cut out for them. Shall we guess on a two year rebuild plan? We should start a pool on when it will be done.
snafu_72 Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 So lets assume that they rebuild the vessel. Is there anyway to test the integrity of the sub before it goes underwater? I would hate to be the crew on that trip. Take her down to 50 meters......I said 50 not 500... *&&%$#.............
Marcello Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 As far as I have read and can be seen the Delta IV would appear to be a double hull design. If it is sufficiently extensive, it might have spared the inner pressure hull the worst, as the heating and cooling would be applied to the outer hull while the inner one would be relatively insulated by tanks, free circulation spaces etc. Conceivably only a partial reconstruction of the outer shell might be necessary, as well as the replacement of some systems, such as portions of the sonar. This of course is pure speculation, one would have to look at the details.
Marcello Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 (edited) As far as I have read and can be seen the Delta IV would appear to be a double hull design. If it is sufficiently extensive, it might have spared the inner pressure hull the worst, as the heating and cooling would be applied to the outer hull while the inner one would be relatively insulated by tanks, free circulation spaces etc. Conceivably only a partial reconstruction of the outer shell might be necessary, as well as the replacement of some systems, such as portions of the sonar. This of course is pure speculation, one would have to look at the details. Edited January 6, 2012 by Marcello
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