Firearms of note and ridicule

[Ivanhoe]

Dang, I just started following SOTAR on FB and have already learned a few things. Thanks for the heads-up.

[shep854]

4 hours ago, Ivanhoe said:

Dang, I just started following SOTAR on FB and have already learned a few things. Thanks for the heads-up.

Chad gets spicy with the 'Just As Good' crowd, but in his actual videos he gives all makes a fair, objective analysis.

Edited August 22 by shep854

[DB]

On 8/21/2024 at 12:36 AM, sunday said:

I realize now that I did not know how an AR15 works.

I think this is where all the internet warriors start shouting about direct impingement vs. pistons. And the answer is "it's complicated".... as fine engineering often ends up being.

[rmgill]

On 8/20/2024 at 7:07 PM, shep854 said:

A great explanation on how the parts of the AR internal piston interact:

 

School of the American Rifle is a great channel. 

[shep854]

5 hours ago, rmgill said:

School of the American Rifle is a great channel. 

I want to attend one of his classes.

[shep854]

 

[sunday]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RPL-20

Looks like a push-through cartridge feed instead of the pull-out seen in most 7.62x54R MGs.

Wonder what @bojan would make of that.

[bojan]

Quote

...Since the rejection of the PU-21, the Russian military has not indicated any desire for a belt-fed, intermediate caliber machine gun...

IOW, left alone, arms manufacturers will make what is easier for them, not what is better.

[Interlinked]

10 minutes ago, sunday said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RPL-20

Looks like a push-through cartridge feed instead of the pull-out seen in most 7.62x54R MGs.

Wonder what @bojan would make of that.

RPL-20 is in 5.45

[shep854]

Because of the base rim that is wider than the cartridge case, 7.62x54R must be pulled out of a belt.

5.54x39 is rimless, so it can be pushed forward.

Edited August 25 by shep854

[sunday]

2 hours ago, Interlinked said:

RPL-20 is in 5.45

Oh, really? Seems I did not notice the multiple mentions of that in the video, nor in the linked wikipedia article.

Thank you for that bit of information.

/sarc

[sunday]

2 hours ago, shep854 said:

Because of the base rim that is wider than the cartridge case, 7.62x54R must be pulled out of a belt.

5.54x39 is rimless, so it can be pushed forward.

Pull out presents several advantages in energy management. There were several posts by Simon Tan on the matter.

[shep854]

48 minutes ago, sunday said:

Pull out presents several advantages in energy management. There were several posts by Simon Tan on the matter.

Now that you mention it, I seem to remember some rather energetic discussions...

[bojan]

4 hours ago, shep854 said:

Because of the base rim that is wider than the cartridge case, 7.62x54R must be pulled out of a belt.

5.54x39 is rimless, so it can be pushed forward.

Czech UK vz.59 did straight feed with 7.62x54R. Soviet competitor with PKM, Nikonov PN did also. In both cases bolt pushed round down and forward, from semi-open belt pockets. Considering that 5.45x39 is noticeably conical I would guess that RPL-20 does same thing.

Things do not have to happen in two dimensions only, our beutiful world has 3rd also  

 

  

1 hour ago, sunday said:

Pull out presents several advantages in energy management. There were several posts by Simon Tan on the matter.

Yes, but for company left on it's own energy management is of lesser interest than money management.  

[sunday]

4 minutes ago, bojan said:

Yes, but for company left on it's own energy management is of lesser interest than money management.

Well, a company that does not make money is going to be a bankrupt company quite soon... 

[bojan]

Company that makes stuff that none need will also, unless then convince people they need it, despite a fact that they do not. Hence I have a job.

[sunday]

1 minute ago, bojan said:

Company that makes stuff that none need will also, unless then convince people they need it, despite a fact that they do not. Hence I have a job.

Oh, noes, a filthy marketroid! 😨

Well, there are worse things...

[bojan]

"Buy bottled mineral water (with 3 x amount of minerals that tap water in Belgrade has), since tap water in Belgrade has too much minerals..."

"Ideally rehydrates and restores micro and macro elemental balance"... (like any other water)

"Only our coffee offers the taste of our coffee"

"Look for a sign of quality, look for ****censored****. "

Need some more?

 

[Olof Larsson]

1 hour ago, sunday said:

Pull out presents several advantages in energy management. There were several posts by Simon Tan on the matter.

Not just that, but also reciever length, and therefore the length and weight of the weapon.

[sunday]

2 minutes ago, Olof Larsson said:

Not just that, but also reciever length, and therefore the length and weight of the weapon.

Receiver is less stressed also, as the spring does not need to store the energy needed to strip a round from the belt. The spring could be weaker, too.

[sunday]

4 minutes ago, bojan said:

"Buy bottled mineral water (with 3 x amount of minerals that tap water in Belgrade has), since tap water in Belgrade has too much minerals..."

"Ideally rehydrates and restores micro and macro elemental balance"... (like any other water)

"Only our coffee offers the taste of our coffee"

"Look for a sign of quality, look for ****censored****. "

Need some more?

 

No, that is 😈 enough.

I assumed Belgrade tap water came from rivers, but it is likely that making Danube water drinkable could be difficult, and there should be enough mountains around with some springs.

[bojan]

Belgrade uses Sava river as main water source. Main water purification works use system of cascade sedimentary. Purified water is of very good quality*. Issue with minerals (mostly carbonates) is that main water pipes in town are quite old, hence there are a lot of sediments, hence water has relatively high amount (through still way below unsafe levels) of various minerals. Still, less minerals than any "healthy mineral water".  

*Worked there on testing for 6 months.

 

[sunday]

15 minutes ago, bojan said:

Belgrade uses Sava river as main water source. Main water purification works use system of cascade sedimentary. Purified water is of very good quality*. Issue with minerals (mostly carbonates) is that main water pipes in town are quite old, hence there are a lot of sediments, hence water has relatively high amount (through still way below unsafe levels) of various minerals. Still, less minerals than any "healthy mineral water".  

*Worked there on testing for 6 months.

 

I found the mineral content of our tap water varies with the season, because the mix of waters from different rivers is not the same along the year, and one of those comes from a potash-rich area.

This could be an interesting off-topic. Interesting, but off-topic anyway.

[Interlinked]

6 hours ago, sunday said:

Oh, really? Seems I did not notice the multiple mentions of that in the video, nor in the linked wikipedia article.

Thank you for that bit of information.

/sarc

Oh, well sorry but it's obviously not clear why you brought up 7.62x54 otherwise.

RPL-20 is just the latest embodiment of Kalashnikov Concern's core values. Monopolize the country's military industry and pump out one minimum viable product after another.

Belt-fed 5.45 that weighs only slightly more than an RPK-74 seems like a big deal, but really it's just how much a regular magazine-fed rifle would weigh. The feed system looks amazingly light and compact, as if there's nothing there at all, but it's just the PK feed system with a narrow feed tray, nothing new. It has a big continuous upper receiver, but this was done by others 20 years ago and became mainstream 10 years ago. It has no shock absorber or buffer, while the much heavier M249 and Negev NG-5 both had one. Gas regulator is not a proper machine gun type but one with only two settings: a normal setting and one for shooting with silencer. The barrel's lifespan of 20,000 rounds is short and its heat limit of 400 rounds is small for a fixed barrel. It's technically "more" than the RPK-74's 180-round heat limit, but that was for cooking off rather than keyholing or rifling damage, and that's despite the great potential from 5.45's moderate pressure.

It's just bafflingly mediocre. I'm sure that RPL-20 is technically "ok" according to the MoD's requirements, but that's probably because the requirements were short-sighted and unrealistic.

[Markus Becker]

The type of armored steel would also play a significant role, wouldn't it? The Czech of the Pz.35 and 38 was said to be brittle and shatter in large pieces when penetrated. WAG: The much softer US one might be best because it would allow the bullet to make a big dent into the outer armor thus transferring the energy in a way that was NOT wanted.