Firearms of note and ridicule

[bojan]

First you have to decide if that is gonna be primarily squad level LMG used from bipod or Plt/Co level MG used from tripod. If second than there is no reason to move from MAG - in that role it is arguably better than PKMS, since in that role heavier is better in general (OTOH MAG is not heavy just for reason of sustainability of fire and stability*, it is also heavy due the archaic tilting block locking action taken from BAR, which requires heavy machined receiver. IOW even it has a lot of parasitic mass that contributes to nothing positive).

*Stability is better achieved with a good tripod.

If you want LMG, it benefits tremendously from a pull-push feed. It should be gas operated, with a rotary bolt locking either into front trunnion or barrel itself. That way receiver can be made lighter. Rest is just arranging components around that. You can call it PKM clone, or "independent design using same concepts", just as FN FNC is formally not an AK. No sir, not at all.  

Constant recoil is nice if it can be done easily, but is not imperative and most often has to sacrifice something else.

[bojan]

On 10/22/2021 at 4:09 AM, Simon Tan said:

...ETA:- M13 cannot push pull becuse of groove clip.

It could, but a double pronged extractor would have to be vertically aligned instead of horizontally. Which would be a PITA, but possible.

[Simon Tan]

Low risk PKM2. 6.5mm Creedmore with plastic disintegrating links. Coated brass casing. LMG is hard, MMG is easy.

[Simon Tan]

Why coated brass case? Because easier extraction is ALWAYS better.

[Ivanhoe]

1 hour ago, Simon Tan said:

Why coated brass case? Because easier extraction is ALWAYS better.

Coated with what?

[Ivanhoe]

2 hours ago, bojan said:

First you have to decide if that is gonna be primarily squad level LMG used from bipod or Plt/Co level MG used from tripod. If second than there is no reason to move from MAG - in that role it is arguably better than PKMS, since in that role heavier is better in general (OTOH MAG is not heavy just for reason of sustainability of fire and stability*, it is also heavy due the archaic tilting block locking action taken from BAR, which requires heavy machined receiver. IOW even it has a lot of parasitic mass that contributes to nothing positive).

*Stability is better achieved with a good tripod.

If you want LMG, it benefits tremendously from a pull-push feed. It should be gas operated, with a rotary bolt locking either into front trunnion or barrel itself. That way receiver can be made lighter. Rest is just arranging components around that. You can call it PKM clone, or "independent design using same concepts", just as FN FNC is formally not an AK. No sir, not at all.  

Constant recoil is nice if it can be done easily, but is not imperative and most often has to sacrifice something else.

Given how the US and other western nations are emphasizing light infantry stomping around after tangos etc., my main concern is about LMGs for leg infantry.

I have the impression from various GWOT veterans that the M240 is fine for fixed positions and vehicle mounts (assuming they aren't worn out).

You are spot on concerning the marketing angle. Critical to come up with a catchy acronym/name. And of course have the components manufactured in at least 10 critical Congressional districts. Machinegun, Kinetic Personnel.

Simon's suggestion of using the Bleedmoor cartridge is smart, for the fireteam/squad application.

[bojan]

IMO, LMG and DMR should use "full" caliber. 6.5creedmore qualifies, but I don't know enough about it except that it supposedly chews through the barrels like crazy.. Rest should use weapons as light as possible (IOW 5.56), in order to:

-  carry more ammo for first two (yes, DMR also needs additional ammo in any kind of the prolonged firefight)

- carry various things that can throw HE at the enemy

Problem is that "single caliber in the squad" always sounds oh so cool, and it always turns out to be a problem.

[Markus Becker]

4 hours ago, Ivanhoe said:

Possibility of getting Galilized, for sure.

 

The fun of this generation and the existence of the next is in danger. Though the other guy doesn't Baldwin it. His finger is off the trigger. Not a complete f-up. 

[Simon Tan]

Barrel chewing is remedied by adjusting propellant burn rate. It's almost all throat related. In any case a modern hammer forged barrel with nitride finish is not particularly expensive. When HK jacks you for a barrel, that is all they are doing.

Essentially you are replicating 6.5x55

[EchoFiveMike]

The techniques applied to large calibers can work for small arms too.  Titanium dioxide additives can significantly increase barrel life, and besides 6.5mm Creedmoor barrel life is on the order of 3k rounds for match guns, so at least triple that for service rifles and machine guns.  Most guns will be cleaned to death, as usual.  S/F....Ken M 

[Simon Tan]

In small arms sustainment, think US Navy San Diego and the former Bon Homme Richard. A one day basic course would save so much grief. A three day armorer course for company level would make depots nigh unnecessary. 

[EchoFiveMike]

Yes, but for a number of reasons, that's not going to happen.  S/F....Ken M

[Simon Tan]

Mainly because the Pentagon is the sum of Russia, Chynah and Best Korea x2. 

[shep854]

Gotta keep the enlisted swine busy...

[rmgill]

 

[shep854]

Cute little thing, isn't it?

 

[rmgill]

 

[shep854]

On 10/27/2021 at 1:36 PM, rmgill said:

 

Do you still have yours?

If memory serves, the most problematic rifles at PFT were the ARs, both DI and piston.

Edited October 29, 2021 by shep854

[rmgill]

Yep. Upgraded the optics to a comp m4 and Aimpoint magnifier. Just added some co-witness irons ( the little magpul metal ones) 

Edited October 29, 2021 by rmgill

[Ivanhoe]

19 hours ago, rmgill said:

 

Kudos to GT for saying the needful thing. I have long since tuned out the armchair CIBs and even the actual BTDTs on rifle design/setup. Over the last 30 years we have gone from "you should probably have an AR-15" to "your kids will be raped if you don't have a (A2/A3/A4/DMR/Recce/Mk 18/K.I.S.S./WTF) build." Every two years its a new/old build concept.

Here's an actual real-world threat management process, in my uneducated opinion;

1) scan for threats

2) see threat

3) service threat

4) GOTO 1

People telling me its critical to have a forward grip, 1-point sling, backup irons, 1/3 co-witness, etc etc etc but don't talk to me about scanning/identification optics are basically telling me they didn't learn much while downrange.

Stop arguing about 10.5" vs 11.3" barrel length, and say something intelligent about binocs, NODS/thermals, whatever.

 

 

[rmgill]

It's partly why I like the stuff that Ian and Karl do because they use retro rifles, so retro that they're 50 years or older old. 

A good practical rifle can start at something like a lever gun or an M1 Carbine. That's my current car gun in fact. After that it's and as you say  skills, awareness and software so to speak. 

[Simon Tan]

Why would you run an expensive gun with expensive ammunition? If you already have a pathetic carbine length 16" M4gery, all you need is a light and a collimator/red dot. Then you go shoot a lot in non square range conditions and work out what can make life easier. That could be less weight, magnification, different places to put your support hand, different sling arrangements etc. Try everything. Much of it will be of no benefit but you might just find something that works for you.

Lever guns are poor investments. The ammunition is expensive, they are slow to reload and they are not cheaper than an AR. 

[Ivanhoe]

3 hours ago, rmgill said:

It's partly why I like the stuff that Ian and Karl do because they use retro rifles, so retro that they're 50 years or older old.

My recurring gripe with a lot of these articles/videos is the over-emphasis on irons. Irons are great when you have 20/25 uncorrected. At my age, if I put my readers on so I can see my irons, I cannot see my target. And vice versa. The money spent on backup irons would be better spent reinforcing the front door frame of the house, FMJ for training, etc.

[bojan]

On the most typical engagement distances you can expect in self/home defense situations... shotgun bead sight would do well enough. Local military training says that under 15m you put whole (AK) front sight hood on top of the rear sight, effectively using just a front sight in the shotgun fashion which gives you enough "minute of man" accuracy for very short range engagements when aiming center mass (center mass is what you should do always if target is in open).

Edit, found a pic illustrating it:

Edited October 30, 2021 by bojan

[shep854]

I've come to understand that all ARs are not 'as good as', but like Simon says, budget rifles are 'good enough' for the vast majority of shooters.  So far, my S&W AR has been flawless under moderate use, and given the pattern's modularity I can simply replace wear parts with higher quality parts as they wear out.