Hypothetical War : Contest For The Spratleys

[X-Files]

MANILA, Philippines — The Philippine navy will deploy its first-ever missile-firing assault vessels in about three months, likely for territorial defense, anti-insurgency strikes and deterrence, but it remains “centuries” behind the naval might of Asian countries such as China, the navy chief said Thursday.

Vice Admiral Robert Empedrad told a news conference that the navy also plans to acquire torpedoes, submarines and other major defense equipment under a modernization program to bolster the security of an archipelago with one of the world’s longest coastlines and to combat piracy and other cross-border crimes.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/with-israeli-missiles-philippine-navy-takes-step-toward-modernization/

Manila has vowed to protect “every single inch” of its territory in the South China Sea and expressed serious concerns over the presence of Chinese strategic bombers that earlier carried out drills in the disputed region.

https://www.rt.com/news/427274-philippine-s-china-sea-protest/

Edited May 21, 2018 by X-Files

[JasonJ]

Vietnam calling for Japan's greater role in the SCS.

 

 

Vietnamese President Tran Dai Quang on Friday called for Japan's active involvement in helping to resolve his country's territorial dispute with China in the South China Sea.

Speaking to The Nikkei ahead of his first visit to Japan from next Tuesday to June 2, Quang used stronger-than-usual language, apparently aiming to send a warning to China, which has been increasing its military presence in the region by conducting bomber drills and deploying missiles.

The president, Vietnam's second most powerful man after the Communist Party secretary general, said Japan can contribute greatly in maintaining peace in Asia, including helping to resolve tensions in the South China Sea and denuclearize North Korea. Coordinated action between Japan and his country will be necessary, he said.

Vietnamese leaders have generally tended to use softer expressions in referring to the South China Sea, so as not to arouse China. Quang's departure from that tendency may reflect a heightened concern in Vietnam after a series of moves in May by China in nearby waters, including drills by bombers in the Paracel Islands area and deployment of cruise missiles in the Spratly Islands.

Japan has increased its involvement in the region. Its Maritime Self-Defense Force vessels make regular visits to strategically important Danang Bay and Cam Ranh Bay.

Quang also asserted the need to establish a legally binding code of conduct based on international law.

The president praised Vietnam and Japan's contributions to the signing of the Trans-Pacific Partnership in March by the remaining 11 member countries, including Japan and Vietnam. He also said he will continue to make efforts to encourage the U.S. and other countries to join the TPP.

This was clearly a reference to U.S. President Donald Trump, who withdrew his country from the trade pact but has hinted that he wants to restart talks. Attention is focused on whether the U.S., which was Vietnam's biggest export destination in 2017, will return to the negotiating table.

Quang also said he expects Japan will help Vietnam improve the quality of his country's infrastructure. Vietnam, which faces financial difficulties, plans to use private funds, derived from such sources as public-private partnerships and build-operate-transfer schemes. The country hopes Japanese companies will enter these areas.

https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/International-Relations/Vietnam-s-leader-urges-more-active-role-for-Japan-in-South-China-Sea

[JasonJ]

USS Higgins and USS Antietam conducted FONOPs at a handful of PRC held islands in the Paracel Island group. Also, a few days earlier, the US withdrew its invitation to China to participate in this year's RIMPAC.

 

 

 

Two US Navy warships sailed near South China Sea islands claimed by China on Sunday, two US officials said, in a move likely to anger Beijing as US President Donald Trump seeks its continued cooperation on North Korea.

The US officials, speaking on the condition of anonymity, said the Higgins guided-missile destroyer and the Antietam, a guided-missile cruiser, came within 12 nautical miles of the Paracel Islands, among a string of islets, reefs and shoals over which China has territorial disputes with its neighbours.

The US military vessels carried out manoeuvring operations near Tree, Lincoln, Triton and Woody islands in the Paracels, one of the officials said.

The sailing moves come days after US withdrew an invitation to China to attend a major US-hosted naval drill.

The Rim of the Pacific exercise, known as RIMPAC and previously attended by China, was billed as the world’s largest international maritime exercise and held every two years in Hawaii in June and July.

RIMPAC enabled the armed forces of the world’s two largest economies to directly engage with each other.

It was viewed by both countries as a way to ease tensions and reduce the risk of miscalculation should they meet under less friendly circumstances.

The Pentagon said the withdrawal of the invitation was in response to what it sees as Beijing’s militarisation of islands in the disputed South China Sea, a strategic waterway claimed in large part by Beijing.

China’s Defence Ministry said the United States had “ignored the facts and hyped up the so-called ‘militarisation’ of the South China Sea”, using it as an excuse to uninvite China.

China’s island-building programme in the South China Sea has sparked concern around the region and in Washington about Chinese intentions.

China says it has every right to build what it calls necessary defensive facilities on its own territory.

Last weekend China’s air force landed bombers on islands in the sea as part of a training exercise, triggering concern from Vietnam and the Philippines.

The ministry reiterated that its building of defence facilities was to protect the country’s sovereignty and legitimate rights, and had nothing to do with militarisation.

http://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy-defence/article/2148002/us-warships-sail-near-south-china-sea-islands-move

 

The Philippines has finally started repair work on Pag-asa.

 

 

 

The Philippines has begun long-delayed repairs to a crumbling runway on the largest of its nine outposts in the South China Sea.

Satellite images taken on May 17 and released on Friday by the Washington-based Asia Maritime Transparency Initiative (Amti) showed two barges with a grab dredger and a backhoe at the sea-swept end of the 1.3km runway on Thitu island.

The runway was supposed to have been repaired as early as April last year, but the plan was stalled by concerns over how China would react.

China had, in the past, used its Coast Guard fleet to block efforts by the Philippines to resupply and upgrade its outposts in the Spratly island chain in the southern end of the South China Sea.

China claims almost the entire South China Sea, a strategic waterway through which about US$3 trillion (S$4 trillion) worth of sea-borne goods passes every year. Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei and Taiwan also have conflicting claims in the area.

The Philippines won a case in 2016 before an international tribunal dismissing China's claims. But President Rodrigo Duterte has opted to set aside this victory. He said last week he would rather not provoke China because that could only lead to "a war we cannot win".

Ongoing repairs on Thitu are "consistent with our national sovereignty and jurisdiction", Mr Duterte's spokesman Harry Roque said in a text message yesterday.

Thitu houses about a hundred civilians and a small contingent of soldiers.

The island's runway was the first built in the Spratlys. But the sea, over time, has eroded about 100m of its western end. The runway's surface has also become too soft to land on whenever it rains.

Apart from repairing the runway, the Philippines has also built at least seven new buildings on Thitu, Amti reported.

Minor improvements, meanwhile, were seen on three other Philippine outposts.

A new round-roofed shelter has been built on the eastern side of Commodore Reef.

An empty field on Nanshan island has been converted into a helipad, and an additional hexagonal shelter has been built on Loaita Cay, a small sandbar.

Vietnam and Taiwan have also made improvements to their outposts in the Spratlys. But these have been dwarfed by the scale and development undertaken by China.

Just 12 nautical miles off Thitu, China's outpost on Subi reef has nearly 400 individual buildings.

Subi is the largest of China's seven man-made islands in the Spratlys.

The so-called Big Three of Subi, Mischief and Fiery Cross reefs all share similar infrastructure, including emplacements for missiles, 3km runways, extensive storage facilities and a range of installations that can track satellites, foreign military activity and communications.

Mischief and Fiery Cross each house almost 190 individual buildings and structures.

Analysts said the facilities on Subi, Mischief and Fiery Cross could each hold a regiment - between 1,500 and 2,400 troops.

Subi could be the future location of hundreds of People's Liberation Army marines, as well as a possible administrative hub as China cements its claim with a civilian presence, security analysts and diplomatic sources told Reuters.

https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/philippines-starts-upgrading-main-s-china-sea-outpost

[Chris Werb]

Meanwhile the Philippines rush urgent military aid to the United States. https://youtu.be/b1-bshef-G8

[JasonJ]

Philippines is getting tough in talk regarding SCS and China, AFAIK first time under Duterte's time.

 

 

Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte has said his nation could go to war if its soldiers were hurt in the disputed South China Sea, a top aide said Wednesday after allegations emerged that Beijing had harassed Manila's troops in the area.

National Security Adviser Hermogenes Esperon made the comments as Duterte's administration pushed back against criticism its response to Chinese activities in the hotly contested waters had been weak.

"Just the other night, the president said if my troops are hurt there, that could be my red line," Esperon told reporters.

"Or, if our people are hurt there at Pag-asa Island. We are not saying we are going to war, but if they oppress us that may force our hand, because we will not allow ourselves to be oppressed."

Pag-asa, better known as Thitu, is the largest of the islands and outcrops garrisoned by Philippine troops in the disputed areas of the South China Sea.

Opposition lawmaker Gary Alejano alleged at a Wednesday congressional hearing that a Chinese navy helicopter had harassed Philippine troops on Second Thomas Shoal, also held by Manila, earlier this month.

The Philippine Navy launched a rubber boat to resupply its Second Thomas Shoal base when "a chopper... hovered in a close and dangerous distance," Alejano said, adding the helicopter's proximity had blown seawater into the Philippine vessel.

Foreign Secretary Alan Peter Cayetano told the hearing the Philippines had protested the incident and resolved the matter "quietly", but refused to disclose details.

China claims most of the resources-rich sea through which $5 trillion in shipping trade passes annually, and in recent years has reclaimed reefs and shoals including some claimed by Manila.

Brunei, Malaysia, Taiwan and Vietnam also have claims in the sea.

China this month deployed anti-ship cruise missiles and surface-to-air missiles on the disputed Spratly Islands off the Philippine coast and flew nuclear-capable bombers to a base in another disputed part of the sea.

Duterte has pointedly said elsewhere he would not go to war against Beijing and hailed improving relations that led to more Chinese trade and investment.

https://japantoday.com/category/world/philippines-could-go-to-war-over-south-china-sea-duterte-aide

[JasonJ]

Meanwhile the Philippines rush urgent military aid to the United States. https://youtu.be/b1-bshef-G8

 

That was a very interesting video Chris. The Garand is a great fire arm, have had the fortunate pleasure to shoot with it on a number occasions when I was still back in the US.

[JasonJ]

China tells US to stop hyping up SCS.

BEIJING, May 31 (Xinhua) -- China on Thursday urged the United States to stop hyping up the South China Sea issue, after U.S. Defense Secretary James Mattis said the United States would continue to confront China on militarization of islands in the South China Sea.

 

"Hyping up militarization in the South China Sea by some people in the U.S. is quite preposterous, just like a thief crying 'stop thief'," Foreign Ministry spokesperson Hua Chunying said at a daily press briefing.

 

She said that the military forces deployed by the United States far exceed those combined by China and other coastal countries in the South China Sea.

 

"China is not the first country or the one deploying the largest amount of weapons in the South China Sea, nor is it the most militarily active country in the region," Hua said. "So who is pushing 'militarization' in the South China Sea? The answer is quite clear."

 

She said it is legitimate and justified for China to deploy necessary and limited national defense facilities on its own islands and reefs, as it is exercising its self-defense right as endowed by the international law.

 

"China adopts a national defense policy that is defensive in nature, and we will not attack others unless we are attacked," Hua said.

 

She called on the United States to abandon meaningless hype and do more things conducive to mutual trust, cooperation, and regional peace and stability.

 

In response to the U.S. move to rename Pacific Command to U.S. Indo-Pacific Command, Hua called on the United States to act responsibly in the Asia Pacific region no matter how the name is changed, and to play a constructive role in regional peace and stability.

http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2018-05/31/c_137220842.htm

[Josh]

"Hyping up militarization in the South China Sea by some people in the U.S. is quite preposterous, just like a thief crying 'stop thief'"

 

A rare admission by the foreign ministry that China is stealing the SCS!

[JasonJ]

Even thought they are stealing the area, they keep telling themselves that those "islands" are part of their sovereign territory. The 9 dash was a comedic claim for a number of decades that people felt unnecessary to take seriously but they held onto it. But now they are putting physical power behind the claim to create a new normal based on the decade long claim. Some may not believe it to be PRC islands, they go along with the act anyway out of nationalism, and just see the trolling claim as part of the power struggle. So its a mix of intentional lying and actually believing it.

 

 

US Lieutenant General and director of the Joint Staff Kenneth McKenzie, when asked whether the US has the ability to "blow apart" China's "man-made" islands, said the US military has had a lot of experience in the West Pacific taking down small islands and that doing so is a core competency of the US military. He was referring to US military operations during WWII and said people "shouldn't read anything more into that [his comment] than a simple statement of historical fact." Yet mainstream US media felt otherwise with CNN saying McKenzie's words "carry particular weight."

Is McKenzie threatening China? Whatever his intentions were, this was the impression he left through media reports. Of course the US has the ability to destroy an isolated island but reminding people of such ability is sometimes seen as a political provocation, which McKenzie must have learned during his military education.

In fact the People's Liberation Army (PLA) also has the ability to destroy any source of attack that threatens to strike a Chinese island, including destroying supportive maritime platforms and military bases. This is also the PLA's core competency. However, China's defense ministry and generals from the General Staff department never stress this fact to the US military. China's military is obviously more restrained.

What does it mean to destroy a Chinese island? It is a declaration of war on China. We do not believe the US government would dare to attempt such folly against a nuclear power, although the current administration is pretty much a bigger showoff than its predecessors.

Hurling threats at each other is not conducive to either the US or China. The current US administration cannot bear the risk and responsibility of starting a war with China in the South China Sea. The US generals should not play along with the US media to fan this stimulating rhetoric.

China's construction on the Nansha islands fall under Chinese sovereignty. These islands need to be protected. Therefore deploying defensive weapons is just as logical as planting trees. Given the complex geopolitical situation where US warships, including its aircraft carriers, continue to cruise the region, how could there not be even one air-defense or anti-ship missile on the islands? The US has deployed more of its military assets in the South China Sea than those of the other countries in the region. And Washington has the temerity to repeatedly accuse Beijing of "militarizing" the South China Sea. We have seen hypocritical diplomatic rhetoric but none matches the US tactic of a thief crying "stop thief."

The danger in the South China Sea is caused by the US continuing to increase its military presence in the region, forcing China to naturally upgrade its defensive weapons on the islands. This in turn gives the US more excuses to exert military pressure, causing regional tensions to spiral.

If the US-China military rivalry becomes the main theme of the South China Sea, it will impact regional peace and development. No regional country can benefit from this rivalry. Although some regional countries are pleased to see Washington balancing out Beijing's influence in the South China Sea, they must remain vigilant that the US might use them as pawns in a dangerous game that will be completely out of their control.

As for the continuous provocative comments from the US, China should remain calm. The US political system decides that the country talks more than it acts. The US will continue to come up with new ways to exert pressure. However, by looking at how Washington runs up against a stone wall when interfering in other regions, we know the US, despite its bluffs, cannot shake a powerful country like China. Today's China should not be disturbed by various comments and misinformation from the US. It should maintain its composure.

 

 

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1105157.shtml

 

Here was a recent cute act.

 

 

 

A photo of Chinese tourists wearing T-shirts depicting Beijing's claims to the disputed South China Sea has sparked online anger in Vietnam, prompting calls for the visitors to be deported.

The shirts featured a map of China and its so-called nine-dash line – the sea boundary found on some 1940s-era maps which Beijing says proves its claim to most of the waterway, despite partial claims from Vietnam and other nations.

The territorial dispute is a hot-button issue in Vietnam, which has a turbulent history of conflict with its powerhouse neighbour.

The visitors arrived in southern Cam Ranh airport on Sunday night and were stopped by security at the immigration desk, an airport police officer said.

"We asked them to take the T-shirts off before allowing them to leave the airport," said the officer, without providing his name because of the sensitivity of the issue.

Photos of the tourists in their nationalist attire made the rounds on social media – with the nine-dash line crossed out with an "X".

Some netizens said the tourists were not welcome in Vietnam.

"Immediately deport them and ban them permanently from coming to Vietnam," Facebook user Nguyen Ngoc Hieu posted.

Another, Quan Hai, wrote: "We must be determined, not allowing anyone passing through our border gates if the passports, T-shirts or anything else with the dash-line maps."

Vietnam and China have long sparred over the resource-rich sea, where Beijing has built artificial islands and installed airstrips and military equipment.

Some guides say this can put them in a spot, especially when visitors dispute Hanoi's version of historical events. "We don't like the Chinese tourists but they bring us profits, so we cannot resist them," said Hung, a Hanoi-based tour operator.

A group of guides petitioned authorities in Danang last year, complaining that unlicensed Chinese guides were leading tours with their own interpretation of history – and sea claims. (AFP)

 

 

http://news.rthk.hk/rthk/en/component/k2/1396466-20180515.htm

 

An RT program had a Chinese vs an American about the 2016 tribunal court about the SCS. The argument of the Chinese person is based on the area encompassed by the 9 dash line being sovereign territory of the PRC as being fact, followed by more troll points. The RT host obviously disagreed with the American.

Edited June 3, 2018 by JasonJ

[RETAC21]

Even thought they are stealing the area, they keep telling themselves that those "islands" are part of their sovereign territory. The 9 dash was a comedic claim for a number of decades that people felt unnecessary to take seriously but they held onto it. But now they are putting physical power behind the claim to create a new normal based on the decade long claim. Some may not believe it to be PRC islands, they go along with the act anyway out of nationalism, and just see the trolling claim as part of the power struggle. So its a mix of intentional lying and actually believing it.

 

 

US Lieutenant General and director of the Joint Staff Kenneth McKenzie, when asked whether the US has the ability to "blow apart" China's "man-made" islands, said the US military has had a lot of experience in the West Pacific taking down small islands and that doing so is a core competency of the US military. He was referring to US military operations during WWII and said people "shouldn't read anything more into that [his comment] than a simple statement of historical fact." Yet mainstream US media felt otherwise with CNN saying McKenzie's words "carry particular weight."

 

Is McKenzie threatening China? Whatever his intentions were, this was the impression he left through media reports. Of course the US has the ability to destroy an isolated island but reminding people of such ability is sometimes seen as a political provocation, which McKenzie must have learned during his military education.

 

In fact the People's Liberation Army (PLA) also has the ability to destroy any source of attack that threatens to strike a Chinese island, including destroying supportive maritime platforms and military bases. This is also the PLA's core competency. However, China's defense ministry and generals from the General Staff department never stress this fact to the US military. China's military is obviously more restrained.

 

What does it mean to destroy a Chinese island? It is a declaration of war on China. We do not believe the US government would dare to attempt such folly against a nuclear power, although the current administration is pretty much a bigger showoff than its predecessors.

 

Hurling threats at each other is not conducive to either the US or China. The current US administration cannot bear the risk and responsibility of starting a war with China in the South China Sea. The US generals should not play along with the US media to fan this stimulating rhetoric.

 

China's construction on the Nansha islands fall under Chinese sovereignty. These islands need to be protected. Therefore deploying defensive weapons is just as logical as planting trees. Given the complex geopolitical situation where US warships, including its aircraft carriers, continue to cruise the region, how could there not be even one air-defense or anti-ship missile on the islands? The US has deployed more of its military assets in the South China Sea than those of the other countries in the region. And Washington has the temerity to repeatedly accuse Beijing of "militarizing" the South China Sea. We have seen hypocritical diplomatic rhetoric but none matches the US tactic of a thief crying "stop thief."

 

The danger in the South China Sea is caused by the US continuing to increase its military presence in the region, forcing China to naturally upgrade its defensive weapons on the islands. This in turn gives the US more excuses to exert military pressure, causing regional tensions to spiral.

 

If the US-China military rivalry becomes the main theme of the South China Sea, it will impact regional peace and development. No regional country can benefit from this rivalry. Although some regional countries are pleased to see Washington balancing out Beijing's influence in the South China Sea, they must remain vigilant that the US might use them as pawns in a dangerous game that will be completely out of their control.

 

As for the continuous provocative comments from the US, China should remain calm. The US political system decides that the country talks more than it acts. The US will continue to come up with new ways to exert pressure. However, by looking at how Washington runs up against a stone wall when interfering in other regions, we know the US, despite its bluffs, cannot shake a powerful country like China. Today's China should not be disturbed by various comments and misinformation from the US. It should maintain its composure.

 

 

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1105157.shtml

 

Here was a recent cute act.

 

 

 

A photo of Chinese tourists wearing T-shirts depicting Beijing's claims to the disputed South China Sea has sparked online anger in Vietnam, prompting calls for the visitors to be deported.

 

The shirts featured a map of China and its so-called nine-dash line – the sea boundary found on some 1940s-era maps which Beijing says proves its claim to most of the waterway, despite partial claims from Vietnam and other nations.

 

The territorial dispute is a hot-button issue in Vietnam, which has a turbulent history of conflict with its powerhouse neighbour.

 

The visitors arrived in southern Cam Ranh airport on Sunday night and were stopped by security at the immigration desk, an airport police officer said.

 

"We asked them to take the T-shirts off before allowing them to leave the airport," said the officer, without providing his name because of the sensitivity of the issue.

 

Photos of the tourists in their nationalist attire made the rounds on social media – with the nine-dash line crossed out with an "X".

 

Some netizens said the tourists were not welcome in Vietnam.

 

"Immediately deport them and ban them permanently from coming to Vietnam," Facebook user Nguyen Ngoc Hieu posted.

 

Another, Quan Hai, wrote: "We must be determined, not allowing anyone passing through our border gates if the passports, T-shirts or anything else with the dash-line maps."

 

Vietnam and China have long sparred over the resource-rich sea, where Beijing has built artificial islands and installed airstrips and military equipment.

 

Some guides say this can put them in a spot, especially when visitors dispute Hanoi's version of historical events. "We don't like the Chinese tourists but they bring us profits, so we cannot resist them," said Hung, a Hanoi-based tour operator.

 

A group of guides petitioned authorities in Danang last year, complaining that unlicensed Chinese guides were leading tours with their own interpretation of history – and sea claims. (AFP)

 

 

Looks like the flacid China appreciation society...

[Chris Werb]

 

 

Looks like the flacid China appreciation society...

 

 

I'm glad I'm not the only one who immediately thought that

[Stuart Galbraith]

Aircraft Spots‏ @AircraftSpots

Now: USAF B-52H's DIPLO01 & 02 are passing directly overhead the disputed Spratly Islands in the South China Sea while en-route to Andersen from Diego Garcia!

[JasonJ]

 

Aircraft Spots‏ @AircraftSpots

Now: USAF B-52H's DIPLO01 & 02 are passing directly overhead the disputed Spratly Islands in the South China Sea while en-route to Andersen from Diego Garcia!

 

 

The image of the flight path is gonna get buried in time, so to put it up here:

 

And China's response to it:

 

 

China urged the US against hyping China's so-called militarization of the South China Sea and to stop creating trouble in the area, Foreign Ministry spokesperson Hua Chunying said on Wednesday, in response to the sighting of two US Air Force B-52 bombers in the disputed area, while the Pentagon continues to call China a threat to the region.

 

"I hope the US can make it clear whether it considers sending offensive strategic weapons like B-52 bombers to the South China Sea as militarization," Hua said during a regular briefing.

 

"If you often have someone coming to your door heavily armed, shouldn't you strengthen your security and defense capabilities?" she asked.

 

CNN cited a statement from the US Pacific Air Forces on Tuesday, saying that two B-52 bombers flew a training mission over the South China Sea and flew in the vicinity of the Nansha Islands.

 

The incident came just days after US Secretary of Defense James Mattis criticized Beijing for its "militarization of the islands," accusing China of "intimidation and coercion" in the region, CNN reported.

 

Hua warned the US that "running amuck is risky."

 

"China will not be intimidated by any military ship or aircraft, and we will take all necessary steps even more staunchly to defend the country's sovereignty and security, and to protect the peace and stability of the South China Sea region," she said.

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1105876.shtml

[Stuart Galbraith]

Thanks for that Jason.

 

You might find this interesting.

[JasonJ]

Yeah it was interesting, it went through many points.

 

One related point with the UK is its growing involvement, even if still in an early stage, and to the bewilderment of many British citizens. I think it sort of suggest an underlaying geopolitical interest that isn't always reflected by the voters. I think it also goes along with Brexit, to be less (not out) vested in Europe, and more vested out in the world.

[Josh]

I honestly don't see why anyone in the EU has any skin in the game. I mean, I'm always flattered when the UK backs the US despite of all the asshole moves we've made, but this seems like quite the stretch even for the special relationship, especially given our current leadership. Quite honestly for their own sake, I wish the UK would focus closer to home. ETA: as far as the US is concerned, I feel they've paid up in full already.

Edited June 27, 2018 by Josh

[Stuart Galbraith]

It would make more sense to me for us to handle the North Cape and, if possible, the Med, in conjunction with the French. That would free up the Americans to put more vessels into the Gulf and the Pacific. I mean yeah, its good to fly the flag, and remind people we are here to be traded with. That is in large part the reason why we built a navy in the first place, right? But it would take a sustained investment of 3 percent for the next 20 years before we can even think about a substantial commitment to the pacific, and I dont see that happening, short of a miracle.

 

Good idea to touch bases with the Japanese and the Aussies of course. But anyone expecting Pax Britannia to return to the waves is going to have to dial their expectations back a bit. Not least the British Foreign office.

[DB]

The fact is that we can't "handle" the North Cape on our own anyway.

 

We send ships out to the Pacific because we want to sell weapon systems locally. HMS Argyll is off to show them Sea Ceptor and the shiny new radar.

[Chris Werb]

Short of the appearance of a new Sino-Russian Axis, I find the idea of our getting involved in a military conflict with China pretty much unthinkable.

[JasonJ]

No one is expecting British involvement in a hot conflict with China. Just a token presence to push back or poke within the "grey zone". I say that not as something I'm advocating but as something from what I'm observing. If the British want to poke, then they are welcomed. But if they are going to do it half-heartedly or reluctantly, better off not coming in at all and sending in confusing signals.

[Stuart Galbraith]

The fact is that we can't "handle" the North Cape on our own anyway.

 

We send ships out to the Pacific because we want to sell weapon systems locally. HMS Argyll is off to show them Sea Ceptor and the shiny new radar.

 

I did say in conjunction with the French. Its hard to see that between us we couldnt whistle up a 2 Carrier Battlegroup now.

[Stuart Galbraith]

Short of the appearance of a new Sino-Russian Axis, I find the idea of our getting involved in a military conflict with China pretty much unthinkable.

 

We assume they are going to remain committed to just their sphere. Reportedly China just attempted to buy a base in Greenland.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-denmark-china-greenland-base/denmark-spurned-chinese-offer-for-greenland-base-over-security-sources-idUSKBN1782EE

 

No, I dont understand it either, unless they tend to be thinking ahead for when the Northwest Passage finally opens.

[Chris Werb]

How would a base in Greenland make sense without a Sino-Soviet alliance in place?

[RETAC21]

How would a base in Greenland make sense without a Sino-Soviet alliance in place?

 

To a Nazi-Sino alliance, it would be a boost!

 

Greenland is never going to be a significant base for anything due to the weather and the terrain.

[Chris Werb]

 

 

How would a base in Greenland make sense without a Sino-Soviet alliance in place?

To a Nazi-Sino alliance, it would be a boost!

 

Greenland is never going to be a significant base for anything due to the weather and the terrain.

To operate flying saucers from? 😁

 

Joking aside, Thule was a pretty significant air base with a deepwater harbour - allegedly the Northernmost in the World.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thule_Air_Base