Tanks in Syrian Revolt

[Rod]

BBC has amateur footage of Syrian tanks being sent as a show of force to prevent further protests.

 

Interesting to see their T-72s with some sort of ERA blocks as well what seems to be upgraded T-55s with ERA (T-55AM2PB?)

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-13204621

[geronimo]

All the tanks that are shown in this footage are T-55 with ERA (T-55MV or T-55AMV). No T-72's.

[Archie Pellagio]

Al Jazeera was showing T72s in footage yesterday.

[geronimo]

The only T-72's I've seen so far are early models with optical range finder.

Edited April 27, 2011 by geronimo

[Cougar 6]

The only T-72's even seen so far are early models with optical range finder.

 

Should be the T-72 Model 1975 export tank.

[geronimo]

AFAIK yes, but be aware that former Soviet army T-72's were also exported once the T-72A entered service.

 

I have 1976 by the way as model number for the Ob.172MEh export version.

[Pavel Novak]

The original soviet T-72 and original export T-72 are practically same things.

[Rod]

BMP-1s in HETs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jNIk4R0NKA&feature=player_embedded#at=69

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9J2u6H-rTeg&feature=player_embedded

Edited April 27, 2011 by Rod

[Guest JamesG123]

Too bad we aren't likely to get as good a MSM and video coverage of this as Libya or Egypt.

[Cougar 6]

Does Syria have any T-80s in service?

[A2Keltainen]

Too bad we aren't likely to get as good a MSM and video coverage of this as Libya or Egypt.

 

Why not? I'm not saying that you're wrong, I'm just curious.

[Rod]

With the spread of cellphones with camera, cheap digital cameras and memory cards, those that want pictures and footage can have them. This is not 1982 and Assad Jr. tries to do a Hama Part II there will be footage of it and it will be disseminated by Al-Jazeera and YouTube and eventually to the MSM.

 

 

Too bad we aren't likely to get as good a MSM and video coverage of this as Libya or Egypt.

[Guest JamesG123]

Its still much harder. Syria has a much more effective and ruthless secret police. Internet links and cell service is more restricted. The MSM are being controlled better. The country is further away from Europe and open borders. etc...

 

Syrian news/video "leakage" is probably going to be as corralled as "well" as in Iran. Unless the protests gather momentum and the apparatus starts to come apart.

[Rod]

But they are close to Lebanon and Jordan. CDs and Memory Cards can easily be sent across border. If you are close enough you could use either countries cell system. No wonder they have recently closed the border with Jordan which Daara, a center point for the protests, is very close to.

 

 

 

Its still much harder. Syria has a much more effective and ruthless secret police. Internet links and cell service is more restricted. The MSM are being controlled better. The country is further away from Europe and open borders. etc...

 

Syrian news/video "leakage" is probably going to be as corralled as "well" as in Iran. Unless the protests gather momentum and the apparatus starts to come apart.

[Damian]

Does Syria have any T-80s in service?

 

No, T-80 series were never exported there.

[Guest JamesG123]

Then they are doomed! Its a proven fact that only M-60s can resist pro-democracy protests!

 

But they are close to Lebanon and Jordan. CDs and Memory Cards can easily be sent across border. If you are close enough you could use either countries cell system. No wonder they have recently closed the border with Jordan which Daara, a center point for the protests, is very close to.

 

 

Its still a choke point to damp down the spread of information both internally and externally. Even if it gets on tape, without CNN et al. cameras there beaming live video of atrocities in progress, don't expect any stirrings in the UN.

[Rod]

The UN didn't do shit for Tunisia or Egypt. The situation snowballed beyond the expectations of most people, pundits, the regime and even the protesters themselves. Did anyone thing that a fruit-seller immolating himself in some small city in Tunisia would lead to the collapse of Egypt's President with a security apparatus of 500,000 and the backing of both West, Russia and China?

 

Syria has all the right ingredients (Alawite--heretic for Sunnis- minority who control a majority Sunni nation, youth unemployment, corruption, lack of freedom, no elections and repression of opinions), is not in the "Friends" list for the U.S., Europe and recently has pissed-off Saudi Arabia with their constant assistance in repressing the Sunnis in Lebanon and allowing Iran to extend its reach in Lebanon to the detriment of Sunnis. (besides assisting in assassinating Rafik Harari who was a big ally of the Saudis and a fellow Sunni).

 

The Wahabists in Saudi Arabia are salivating the strategic opportunity of a)removing a "heretic" Alawite control from a major Sunni Arab country, b)get a new Syria off Iran's orbit, which will lead to c)reduction in military assistance to reach Hezbollah in Lebanon who are an impeding the Sunnis there and d)get back in Iran for formeting Shiite rebellions in Yemen (and attacked Saudi forces), Bahrain and Saudi Arabia's Eastern provinces.

 

 

 

Its still a choke point to damp down the spread of information both internally and externally. Even if it gets on tape, without CNN et al. cameras there beaming live video of atrocities in progress, don't expect any stirrings in the UN.

[Archie Pellagio]

Its still much harder. Syria has a much more effective and ruthless secret police. Internet links and cell service is more restricted. The MSM are being controlled better. The country is further away from Europe and open borders. etc...

 

Syrian news/video "leakage" is probably going to be as corralled as "well" as in Iran. Unless the protests gather momentum and the apparatus starts to come apart.

 

Oh for fucks sake, stick to what you know.

Syria is awash with digital cameras, memory cards, video cameras and mobile phones just as much as Egypt was/is.

 

Just because you've got your 'OMG scary Middle East dictatorship' goggles on doesn't mean the place isn't awash with vast hoards of western tourists, in fact the tourists are almost as bad as in Egypt there.

[Simon Tan]

Jordanians in Ramtha, the other side of the border have been demonstrating in support of their neighbours. They have also been infiltrating the now closed border to bring in supplies and bring out info. The Syrian government is unable to shut down Daraa electronically due to the prevalence of Jordanian phones and SIMs in Daraa.

 

The classic 'my friends enemy is my friend' and other calculations no longer hold much water. Israel is unwilling and at this time unable to adapt to the evolving situation.It is paralyzed by fear of the unknown. Worse, they are petrified that they may have to engage their feloow Semites as people and not as monsters. Syria IS a popular revolution, not led be AQ, Salafists or Mossad agents but by ordinary people who have lost their fear. I believe Bashar is unable to accept anything other than despotism and his ham fisted and contary attempts at reconciliation will eventually lead to another Hama. Whether Douma, Daraa, Latakia etc. are all going to be cowed reamins to be seen.

 

It is indeed a watershed moment in the Arab world, more so than the pan Arab movement led by Nasser, which was very much a small coterie of revolutionaries. How the US and Israel respond to these developments will be of great significance.

[Chris Werb]

It's going to be REALLY interesting to see how this one plays out.

[Rod]

Better move these posts to the FFZ where there is a thread already:

 

http://208.84.116.223/forums/index.php?showtopic=33833&st=60

 

 

 

 

It is indeed a watershed moment in the Arab world, more so than the pan Arab movement led by Nasser, which was very much a small coterie of revolutionaries. How the US and Israel respond to these developments will be of great significance.

[Michael Eastes]

Oh for fucks sake, stick to what you know.

Syria is awash with digital cameras, memory cards, video cameras and mobile phones just as much as Egypt was/is.

 

Just because you've got your 'OMG scary Middle East dictatorship' goggles on doesn't mean the place isn't awash with vast hoards of western tourists, in fact the tourists are almost as bad as in Egypt there.

 

You mean that there's a chance that I could someday see Krak des Chevaliers for myself?

 

I've also been under the impression that western types weren't overly welcome there, but I suppose that even evil dictatorships want tourist industry bucks.

 

So, modern armor experts, I'm getting the impression that Syria has no tanks newer than T-72's? Is that confirmable?

[Marek Tucan]

Yep.

 

TBH,k few countries have newer tanks than T-72

[Archie Pellagio]

You mean that there's a chance that I could someday see Krak des Chevaliers for myself?

 

I've also been under the impression that western types weren't overly welcome there, but I suppose that even evil dictatorships want tourist industry bucks.

 

So, modern armor experts, I'm getting the impression that Syria has no tanks newer than T-72's? Is that confirmable?

 

You most definitely can see the Krak d Chevaliers, it is one of the major tourist sights in the country, I drove there with a honeymooning Australian couple only a year ago.

As I've said before, Syria is the only country I've ever stopped telling people I was Australian because there were so damned many of them around.

For an example of Small-World-Syndrome, the shitty little place I was staying at, in the shitty little port of Lattakia, had in the same maybe twenty room hotel, another bloke from Darwin, a town of about 90,000 people on the other side of the world.

 

Lots of Americans there too.

 

Damascus is pretty much the #1 place on Earth for students of Arabic to go and live, absolutely everyone has done it

 

Perhaps hold off for a few months though

[Rod]

Is that a T-72 with ERA blocks?