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M67 recoilless rifle back in action


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Well it seems the 506th Infantry Regiment of the 101st Airborne has found enough old M67 90mm recoilless rifles and ammunition for the things to start using them in Afghanistan.

 

While that level of firepower must be useful, it seems quite heavy at 38 lbs. Both the M3 MAAWS and the Mk.153 SMAW are significantly lighter. The SMAW II 'Serpent' is also under development which features a new fire control system with laser rangefinder replacing the spotting rifle.

 

So what is the opinion on this, is it a good move or is it too much weight to carry around? Maybe if Afghan National Army units weren't so incompetent and likely to sell the weapons they could make use of some of these or even the M40 106mm recoilless rifle.

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Australian troops use 84mm charlie guts-ache's pretty regularly in Afghanistan.

 

The Canadians and Danes also have them. AFAIK the only US unit that uses the M3 Carl G is the 75th Ranger Regt.

 

Re the 106, I posted a video a while back in another of a US Army SF team using one somewhere in Afghanistan. Unfortunately don't know any more details.

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Probably used to reinforce motor patrols and base camps, can't see the utility over AT4/M72 for guys out walking around.

 

Just another indictment of the system that this is the best we could be after 10 years. S/F.....Ken M

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Likely this was scrounged from somewhere and is in addition to their regular issue, meaning the unit has more firepower.

 

I taught a Carl G course with 2 weapons firing on either side of me, by the end of the day my head was ringing and nose was bleeding, I wonder if the longer barrel lessens the shockwave effect on the team?

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I'd raise concerns over the shelf life of any 90mm RR shells still in inventory: when were these guns withdrawn from service?

AT4/M136 family began US integration in, what, late 1980s/early 1990s? (I remember the 9mm practice tracers @ Leonard Wood basic in 1990).

 

Does anyone, outside of countries like Pakistan, Turkey, and maybe a few other semi-third-worlders, even manufacture the 90mm RR ammo anymore?

If this is A-stan, is it more that likely they captured some Tali weapons and pressed them into service after some Paki or ANA allies showed them how they worked?

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Wonder where they dug those 90mm RRs from...surprised they weren't scrapped long ago. Where does the US Army keep all of its old weapons like that anyways? Is there an Army equivalent to the Davis-Monathan AFB boneyard?

 

PBAR

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http://www.clarksvilleonline.com/2011/02/12/currahees-add-to-their-weapons-arsenal/

 

“The M67 will be used by mainly infantrymen in a static position,” said U.S. Army Staff Sgt. Nathan J. Hyman of Clovis, CA, master gunner for 2nd Battalion, 506th Infantry Regiment, 4th BCT, 101st Abn. Div. “This means the weapon will be stationary, it won’t move unless necessary.”

“Soldiers at the outlying stations will be able to use this weapons system as a force multiplier, meaning that more can be accomplished with fewer individuals,” Hyman said. “Although we plan to use the 90mm in mainly a defensive posture, it also can be extremely effective being used offensively for ambushes.”

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I believe South Korea still has them in service, and may be still manufacturing the ammunition (I don't have the latest Jan'es Infantry Weapons handy but I seem to recall seeing it in one of the more recent editions).

 

IIRC we still use them.

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IIRC we still use them.

 

When I was in the PAARNG (Pennsylvania Army Nation Guard)1978-1980 we had Jeep mounted 106mm RR and I always wondered why we did not bring them back for base defense or other uses in Iraq and Astan. They fire HE,and an anti-personnel round IIRC and it would be cheaper to use one round out of a RR then to fire a Javelin at a target. I also remember the infantry in the 3d ID back in the 70's in Germany had 90mm RR before the Dragon. The 90mm was probably a better weapon than the Dragon, and was probably more versatile.

 

Mike

Edited by Delta tank 6
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When I was in the PAARNG (Pennsylvania Army Nation Guard)1978-1980 we had Jeep mounted 106mm RR and I always wondered why we did not bring them back for base defense or other uses in Iraq and Astan. They fire HE,and an anti-personnel round IIRC and it would be cheaper to use one round out of a RR then to fire a Javelin at a target. I also remember the infantry in the 3d ID back in the 70's in Germany had 90mm RR before the Dragon. The 90mm was probably a better weapon than the Dragon, and was probably more versatile.

 

Mike

 

Could be wrong, but I think one consideration on not bringing back the 106mm RR is that most of the ammo has been burnt up doing avalanche control. That's one reason they're using M60 tanks up here for the mission, and why the WA DOT guys may be the last qualified M60 gunners who are currently qualified in the US...

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Could be wrong, but I think one consideration on not bringing back the 106mm RR is that most of the ammo has been burnt up doing avalanche control. That's one reason they're using M60 tanks up here for the mission, and why the WA DOT guys may be the last qualified M60 gunners who are currently qualified in the US...

I think I see a "second career" for surplused Stryker MGS'

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Could be wrong, but I think one consideration on not bringing back the 106mm RR is that most of the ammo has been burnt up doing avalanche control. That's one reason they're using M60 tanks up here for the mission, and why the WA DOT guys may be the last qualified M60 gunners who are currently qualified in the US...

Holy cow!! I don't know how many rounds we had, but that is a lot of avalanche control!! Gee, they do TCGST and Table VII on the M60s every year so that can aim and hit the side of a mountain!! :lol:

 

Mike

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2001 Jane's Infantry Weapons says the M67 was still in service with Guatemala, Honduras, Mexico, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Philippines and South Korea. The M67 had also been built in South Korea and that country was also still producing HEAT and HE rounds for the weapon.

 

As for the M40 the weapon itself and the ammunition have been made in several countries, including Spain, Taiwan, Pakistan and South Korea. Still in use in over 30 countries.

Edited by baboon6
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Shades of the SKYRAIDER use in Vietnam.

 

Tim better watch out, things go all Mad Max at home in 2012 and the local NG will be fitting out his Stuarts with 25mm chain guns.

 

In the spirit of apocalyptic salvaging and "kitbashing" hillbilly guntrucks,

what's the turret ring of a Stuart?

Maybe raid some National Guard UTES/MATES facilities and just drop a Bradley turret into an M5 hull?

Why settle for just a 25 Chain Gun, when you could mate a pair of TOWs with it as well? :rolleyes:

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In the spirit of apocalyptic salvaging and "kitbashing" hillbilly guntrucks,

what's the turret ring of a Stuart?

Maybe raid some National Guard UTES/MATES facilities and just drop a Bradley turret into an M5 hull?

Why settle for just a 25 Chain Gun, when you could mate a pair of TOWs with it as well? :rolleyes:

 

There were prototype Stuarts with Maxon mounts, evidently quite effective but couldn't stow as much ammunition and the M16 half track.

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It's a sad day, gentlemen. But none of the people manning the M60A3's with the WA DOT are former tankers. Ran across a thread some time ago from a former WANG tanker working in Yakima who was appalled to watch them bore site using the string on the end of the gun tube and firing only HEP. Apparently the manual traverse handle was broken. But then again how accurate do you need to hit a mountain?

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In the spirit of apocalyptic salvaging and "kitbashing" hillbilly guntrucks,

what's the turret ring of a Stuart?

Maybe raid some National Guard UTES/MATES facilities and just drop a Bradley turret into an M5 hull?

Why settle for just a 25 Chain Gun, when you could mate a pair of TOWs with it as well? :rolleyes:

 

Dude, just thinking about the shadetree mechanics and re-rigging of hydraulics that would entail gives me agina.

 

Remember, when things fall apart K.I.S.S. prevails.

 

This would be dandy -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XM307_Advanced_Crew_Served_Weapon

As worst case, Tim could pop the mantels and plop this right down on the existing cradle. Replace mantels and off they go to the Zero Range.

 

ps -

Open top turrets have liabilities.

 

See also

Edited by X-Files
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It's a sad day, gentlemen. But none of the people manning the M60A3's with the WA DOT are former tankers. Ran across a thread some time ago from a former WANG tanker working in Yakima who was appalled to watch them bore site using the string on the end of the gun tube and firing only HEP. Apparently the manual traverse handle was broken. But then again how accurate do you need to hit a mountain?

Actually, they have to hit the right spot on the mountain to properly trigger an avalanche in a controlled manner.

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Actually, they have to hit the right spot on the mountain to properly trigger an avalanche in a controlled manner.

 

But, they have time to use BOT (burst on target) and I am sure they want to miss the first few shots so that can bang off a few more rounds!! At least I would!

 

Mike

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SAF used to operate the 106mm mounted on jeeps. The 106 packs one big wallop. Each time it fires it look like the jeep will surely fall apart. It is unwieldy and each round of ammo is huge.

 

If the US already operate the 84 CG, I can't see the need for the 90mm RR. Longer range?

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