XXJ - Chinese fifth generation fighter programme

[Archie Pellagio]

Just found some interesting pics - especially the planform view - I assumed the layout was more conventional like an F22/F23 rather than a Delta-Canard config.

 

[Yalmuk]

The highest resolution J-20 photo thus far

http://china-defense.blogspot.com/2011/04/highest-resolution-j-20-photo-thus-far.html

 

Any idea what those small "windows" under and side of radome might be?

 

It also looks like it has those RCS echanters (or whatever they are called) what F-22 uses in airshows.

Edited April 30, 2011 by Yalmuk

[Yalmuk]

What is that thing in the inlet? it also looks like those sidebays can take one IR missile.

Edited May 5, 2011 by Yalmuk

[pikachu]

What is that thing in the inlet? it also looks like those sidebays can take one IR missile.

 

Cover for maintenance? It's still numbered 2001, but the paint's different and the sidebays are now clearly visible. If they're opened during maintenance, they might even be functional. This other pic raided from the same source suggests that the ventral bays are also extant on the prototype(s). Look at the maintenance guy under the fuselage. He's missing his head and the top of his torso. Also, there is a long slab to his right that may be the opened bay door.

 

 

This pic is showing the plane flying with landing gears stored. It's very smooth from the sides, and looks like the real flight testing phase has started in earnest.

 

 

Last but not least, Mr. Blurrycam is showing a possible second prototype. The logic here is that CAC (Chengdu) doesn't have any twin-engine. twin-tail product other than the J-20, so a black plane sporting two vertical rudders in CAC must be another J-20 prototype.

 

[pikachu]

The highest resolution J-20 photo thus far

http://china-defense.blogspot.com/2011/04/highest-resolution-j-20-photo-thus-far.html

 

Any idea what those small "windows" under and side of radome might be?

 

It also looks like it has those RCS echanters (or whatever they are called) what F-22 uses in airshows.

 

These "windows"?

 

 

The Chinese interwebz are abuzz with speculation that these might indicate the J-20 is equipped with EO-DAS (Electro-Optical Distributed Aperture System). It wouldn't be surprising for the Chinese to have that tech considering advancements they've made with EO systems in such things as the DF-21D AShBM and LS-6 GPS+EO guided bombs, but it's hard to believe they're that far ahead in the game. AFAIK so far only the F-35 has the system installed.

 

On the other hand, considering the many similarities of J-20's features to those of the F-35, if the J-20 does have EO-DAS, maybe it's time to revamp security on the F-35 program.

[Guest JamesG123]

On the other hand, considering the many similarities of J-20's features to those of the F-35, if the J-20 does have EO-DAS, maybe it's time to revamp security on the F-35 program.

 

LOL.

 

A little late for that.

[Yalmuk]

Yeah, those "windows" are what i meant. But how easy would it be copy such things? I would assume you need more than just some blueprints etc.. to copy such system.

 

What else could they be?

[Archie Pellagio]

Some rudimentary for of it isn't something amazingly out of the question, what is more questionable is the quality of it.

 

Go back through some aviation mags and books from about 1988-1990 when the MiG29 had a "stolen copy of an APG 65 plus an IRST which could detect anything from a squillion miles away passively" etc.

[pikachu]

Yeah, those "windows" are what i meant. But how easy would it be copy such things? I would assume you need more than just some blueprints etc.. to copy such system.

 

What else could they be?

 

EO-DAS is not a new technology but rather a novel application of an existing technology. It's just a combination of the pattern-recognition software embedded in most modern digital cameras with high-resolution IR cameras and a good, old-fashioned alarm. Instead of being told to recognize faces, the system is taught to distinguish the telltale signature of weapons fire and/or a missile exhaust and alert the pilot of the direction (and possibly origin) of the incoming weapon. The basic technologies to do this have existed since the late '90s and China is a major (if not the largest) producer of digital cameras. The Chinese don't even need to copy the US system (developed by Northrop Grumman). Just knowing the system exists is enough, and in this there's no way they could have missed it because it's one of the better-publicized features of the F-35 (because the Raptor doesn't have it - yet). Once they know it's being done somewhere else it's a rather trivial matter to start development of their own version of it.

 

The big question, as Luke has pointed out, is the quality and reliability of their system. Northrop Grumman's EO-DAS has the potential to be used as an independent targeting system by augmenting each aperture camera with IRSTs. The existing promotional video treats this capability as an established fact, although AFAIK the miniaturized IRST and off-boresight missile (ASRAAM? Python 5?) are not available yet. The Chinese might stop short of this capability, though. They don't seem to have any plans to develop the off-boresight missile needed to make use of this function (unless PL-ASR is real).

[Yalmuk]

New close up landing.

 

0:11 part it sounds like someone with american acccent saying "I'm sorry" ?

[pikachu]

Another piece of the puzzle came to light: AESA radar on J-10B, covered in yellow complete with shameless self promotion by the developers for the world to see.

 

 

The red writing reads "Nanjing 14th Institute Radar" in Chinese. Unfortunately, they seem to have overestimated the zoom power of the observers' cameras.

 

Anyway, I would say that now another question raised in this thread has been answered. The Chinese seem to have AESA radar for combat aircraft. Since J-10B also serves as tech testbed for J-20, expect this toy to find its way to the big guy. There are rumors going around that J-11B/BS/BSH will be retrofitted with it and the J-15 will have it as standard equipment. I guess we'll see.

[X-Files]

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan — China has agreed to immediately provide 50 JF-17 fighter jets to Pakistan, a major outcome of a visit by Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gilani to Beijing this week, Pakistani officials said Thursday. China and Pakistan have jointly produced the JF-17 aircraft, but the new planes would be equipped with more sophisticated avionics, the officials said. The latest jet fighters would be paid for by China, they said.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/20/world/asia/20pakistan.html?_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss

[crazyinsane105]

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan — China has agreed to immediately provide 50 JF-17 fighter jets to Pakistan, a major outcome of a visit by Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gilani to Beijing this week, Pakistani officials said Thursday. China and Pakistan have jointly produced the JF-17 aircraft, but the new planes would be equipped with more sophisticated avionics, the officials said. The latest jet fighters would be paid for by China, they said.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/20/world/asia/20pakistan.html?_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss

 

I made another topic about this under the General Naval and Air section. The JF-17s will have AESA radars.

[X-Files]

I made another topic about this under the General Naval and Air section. The JF-17s will have AESA radars.

 

Mine was first.

[X-Files]

A photo from a Chinese aerospace exhibit, posted on an Internet forum, provides the first new evidence in more than six months regarding the role and capabilities of China’s first stealth fighter prototype.

 

The photo depicts the underside of a scale model of the Chengdu J-20, showing the angular fighter’s three weapons bays open and eight air-to-air missiles mounted inside. The missile loud-out includes one short-range infrared-guided missile in each of two small side bays, plus six medium-range missiles packed into the single, large, belly bay.

 

http://the-diplomat.com/flashpoints-blog/2011/07/26/stealth-fighter-or-bomber/

[CaptLuke]

A photo from a Chinese aerospace exhibit, posted on an Internet forum, provides the first new evidence in more than six months regarding the role and capabilities of China’s first stealth fighter prototype.

 

The photo depicts the underside of a scale model of the Chengdu J-20, showing the angular fighter’s three weapons bays open and eight air-to-air missiles mounted inside. The missile loud-out includes one short-range infrared-guided missile in each of two small side bays, plus six medium-range missiles packed into the single, large, belly bay.

 

http://the-diplomat.com/flashpoints-blog/2011/07/26/stealth-fighter-or-bomber/

 

Take another look at the missiles: either it's not a scale model or the short range missiles are bigger than the long range missiles. Also if you blow the picture up a little you see that it really looks like this is on display in some guys living room in front of the rest of his model collection.

 

Bill Trimble has already had to apologize for passing this off as an authentic scale model.

 

Personally, I think somebody made it themselves. The weapons bay interior and missiles really look like wood to me and, again if you blow it up, you'll see what looks like some poor and unlikely fits around the landing gear.

[Guest JamesG123]

It would be kind of silly for the Chinese to build and display a true fidelity model of it with her skirt up for analysts to look over.

 

David Axe is still an idiot.

[Jeff]

The doors to the central bay look pretty enormous to have swing open at anything above slow speed.

[Guest JamesG123]

Not to mention on the ground...

[Archie Pellagio]

The doors to the central bay look pretty enormous to have swing open at anything above slow speed.

 

It would obviously have to be four doors and two bays with a central split for each bay, that model clearly involved conre durgs is equine quantities...

[Yalmuk]

Belly bays

 

Side bays

[Yalmuk]

J-20, J-10B, JF-17.

 

J-10B seen first time on video, and it's using WS-10 engine.

[Yalmuk]

J-10B with J-20.

[pikachu]

J-10B with J-20.

 

August 1st celebration, CAC style. There's really no reason to schedule their three pride&joy babies to fly one by one on the same day other than to please the fanboys. There's especially no reason to even fly the FC-1/JF-17, which is already in production and fully-tested by now. Even the plane flown is an old prototype.

 

Well, I'm happy so no complaints there. Shenyang is probably feeling a bit under-appreciated right now. They scheduled a J-15 leak (AESA, WS-10 engines, "full-featured" new prototype) 5 days earlier and it barely made the rounds.

[Yalmuk]

New close up.