Korean artillery exchange.

[Archie Pellagio]

A country with whole families defecting at a time, I just don't see them putting up a fight after a while. Once their massive formations get cut-off, I see troops shooting their own officers and commissars and surrendering to news crews.

 

Sounds familiar...

 

[Ken Estes]

A country with whole families defecting at a time, I just don't see them putting up a fight after a while. Once their massive formations get cut-off, I see troops shooting their own officers and commissars and surrendering to news crews.

Is that how it went down in 1950?

 

"They will run at the sight of American uniforms...."

 

Will we ever learn, like anything?

[Marek Tucan]

If things go pear shaped, I hope we have a shitload of JDAM's because we'll need all we can get.

 

My understanding is that Nork arty was one of major motivators for SDB. After all counter-arty would be that much faster if each F-15 can carry 16 of these instead 5 JDAMs...

[TSJ]

I talked for a few minutes with a Captain US Army Special Forces during Thanksgiving. He said there were no troops available to send to Korea. Uh huh. He hasn't been exposed to the special insanity that is the Corps. I guarantee that in 48 hours all the Marines in Okinawa will be in their dinghys rowing their way to Korea should the call arise. More will be following from Pendelton. Marines not able to answer 911? That would be like telling Congress "aw f*** it, you don't need us".

 

But seriously, I am pretty sure it won't come to that. The pup is just being trained. I hope.

[h18w777]

Another small selection of photos from the exercise. More later as they become available.

 

A K10 Ammunition Resupply Vehicle is seen at the South Korean marines' base on Yeonpyeong island November 27, 2010. North Korea has placed surface-to-surface missiles on launch pads in the Yellow Sea, Yonhap news agency reported on November 28, 2010, as the United States and South Korea began joint military exercises. Picture taken November 27, 2010.

South Korean soldiers take part in a military drill on the beach in Malipo, north western South Korea, Sunday, Nov. 28, 2010. The U.S. and South Korea launched a round of war games in Korean waters sent residents and journalists on a front-line island scrambling for cover Sunday.

South Korean marines wear gas masks in preparation of a landing operation at Mallipo beach in Taean, about 170km (106 miles) southwest of Seoul, November 28, 2010.

South Korean marines collect wreckage of propellers of North Korean shells on Yeonpyeong Island near the western maritime border between the two Koreas November 28, 2010. The United States and South Korea began joint military exercises in waters west of the Korean Peninsula Sunday that have been opposed by regional giant China and have led to North Korea threatening "consequences".

South Korean soldiers lay metal tracks as they prepare for landing operations on a beach in Taean, around 170 km southwest of Seoul on November 28, 2010.

South Korean soldiers take part in a military drill on the beach in Malipo, north western South Korea, Sunday, Nov. 28, 2010.

Digital camo and a first generation Vietnam era M16.

Edited November 28, 2010 by h18w777

[BansheeOne]

Second-generation M16A1 actually. No open-prong flash hider.

[chino]

 

 

 

Digital camo and a first generation Vietnam era M16.

 

Yeah, M16A1.

 

I'm surprised so many M16 are still in use. I thought the Daewoo piston-driven rifles have replaced all other weapon types long ago.

[chino]

Is that how it went down in 1950?

 

"They will run at the sight of American uniforms...."

 

Will we ever learn, like anything?

 

True.

 

Reference WWII Russian troops. They hate the government, but they were fighting for their country.

[Jeff]

My understanding is that Nork arty was one of major motivators for SDB. After all counter-arty would be that much faster if each F-15 can carry 16 of these instead 5 JDAMs...

We'll need a lot of everything.

[rmgill]

 

 

Digital camo and a first generation Vietnam era M16.

 

And an M38 Jeep carrying a Recoilless Rifle.

[Guest JamesG123]

If it still works...

 

In Korea, an old jeep with a 106mm RR is more useful than a Humvee with a TOW.

[JOE BRENNAN]

 

South Korean marines collect wreckage of propellers of North Korean shells on Yeonpyeong Island

Translation glitch in English caption; in original it's chujinche= 'propulsion body'=rocket casing, of 122mm rocket, not chujingi=propeller.

 

 

Search of images for 연평도 추진체 'Yeonpyeong-do rocket casing' will yield many more.

 

Joe

[Sami Jumppanen]

My understanding is that Nork arty was one of major motivators for SDB. After all counter-arty would be that much faster if each F-15 can carry 16 of these instead 5 JDAMs...

 

I was wondering how do they distribute those targets? I mean that if they know where those fixed positions are then how do they make sure that every target is hit ASAP and that means that everyone doesn't shoot at the same target

[Ken Estes]

I talked for a few minutes with a Captain US Army Special Forces during Thanksgiving. He said there were no troops available to send to Korea. Uh huh. He hasn't been exposed to the special insanity that is the Corps. I guarantee that in 48 hours all the Marines in Okinawa will be in their dinghys rowing their way to Korea should the call arise. More will be following from Pendelton. Marines not able to answer 911? That would be like telling Congress "aw f*** it, you don't need us".

 

But seriously, I am pretty sure it won't come to that. The pup is just being trained. I hope.

 

 

Remains to be seen, whether any infantry battalions have resumed deployments to Okinawa. The shellgame during 2003-07 [and beyond?] left only one of the five usual battalions assigned, the one being allocated to the 31st MEU. I have no idea what is out there.

 

More battalions will have to be diverted, if any, from Afghanistan. There is much logic in the timing of this incident. The world knows the US forces have been stretched beyond any plans by this brilliant campaign to bring the benefits of Western civilization to Iraq and Afghanistan, interalia. We have been mobilizing the reserve establishment far too long, and we are in midst of economic difficulties which will take half a decade or more to rein.

 

More serious, in my view, are the 'warnings' from China not to engage in military maneuvers in their 'exclusive economic zone' without their 'permission.' The world of Pax Americana will seem but a distant memory before long.

 

The events of 1964-75 demonstrated the 'Limits of Power' and we have delayed too long in recognizing this. We may have gained a touch of victory disease from our experience of 1990-91.

Edited November 28, 2010 by Ken Estes

[Ken Estes]

I was wondering how do they distribute those targets? I mean that if they know where those fixed positions are then how do they make sure that every target is hit ASAP and that means that everyone doesn't shoot at the same target

None of those targets likely will be hit until the USAF conducts its SEAD campaign.

[Scythe]

My understanding is that Nork arty was one of major motivators for SDB. After all counter-arty would be that much faster if each F-15 can carry 16 of these instead 5 JDAMs...

 

The F-15E can carry 12 500lb JDAMs, or if greater penetration is required 12 SDBs (or a 6/6 mix of both). In addition, provided 3 bags of fuel are not needed, the centerline station can carry a 2000lb weapon (JDAM, GBU-24 with either thermobaric, HE or bunker busting warheads) or the 4700lb GBU-28 'super' bunker buster.

 

I would also like to state that this would be a realistic combat loadout (the bombs, two wing fuel tanks and four missiles for self defense). Combat radius would be around 600-900 miles, though far less if CAS station orbiting is required.

Edited November 28, 2010 by Scythe

[Marek Tucan]

500lb JDAMs won't penetrate much, but don't 4 SDBs take space (and weight) of one 1000lb? Or was it 2000lb?

[Sami Jumppanen]

500lb JDAMs won't penetrate much, but don't 4 SDBs take space (and weight) of one 1000lb? Or was it 2000lb?

 

Well, they were planing of loading B-2 with 4 SDBs per JDAM hardpoint. I thought that those were 500lb JDAMS as there was suposed to be 360 SDBs.

[Marek Tucan]

320 would break B-2's back, half that number would be more likely but yes, 500lb shopud equal to 4 SDB capacity (theoretical)

[tankerwanabe]

Anyone have an assessment of S.Korean vs.N. Korean forces? I was under the impression that the S. Koreans could take care of this by themselves even if the US does not intervene.

[Ken Estes]

Such maxed out bomb loads conveys to me the presumed idea that the other side will not fight back, and that such a 'war' will be a simple matter of truckstops over the target list.

 

I have no concept in either: that they will be supine, or that we have an adequate target list. Granted, this is the most gamed and planned potenital war of all since 1954, but the forces available have changed a bit since the CW.

 

Technological surprises have a habit of cutting both ways, for the side making use of technical 'solutions' to operational problems.

[Scythe]

Such maxed out bomb loads conveys to me the presumed idea that the other side will not fight back, and that such a 'war' will be a simple matter of truckstops over the target list..

 

Um those would be typical bomb loads. The B-2 carries all it's bombs internally (they do not suffer the drag penalty of 100+ SDBs, only weight penalties) and the F-15E has been carrying 12 500lb-class munitions as a standard combat load since Desert Storm (when they actually have dog fought Iraqi MiG-29s and dodged SAMs).

 

In fact, carrying a combined 6000lbs of bombs may actually be considered one of the lighter combat loads for the Mudhen.

Edited November 28, 2010 by Scythe

[Chris Werb]

I'm old enough to remember the original Strike Eagle demonstrator (and had the Hasegawa kit) that showed the plane carrying a much larger quantity of bombs. This was in the days of the 3+3MERs.

 

 

I've also seen pics of F-15As (early trials aircraft?) dropping large numbers of Mk82s from MERs.

 

I've seen RAF phantoms carrying 15X1000lb bombs or 15xBL755s and Buccaneers carrying 16 1000lb GPs.

Edited November 28, 2010 by Chris Werb

[Chris Werb]

I'm old enough to remember the original Strike Eagle demonstrator (and had the Hasegawa kit*) that showed the plane carrying a much larger quantity of bombs. This was in the days of the 3+3MERs.

 

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:McDonnell_Douglas_F-15E_Prototype_060905-F-1234S-025.jpg

 

I've also seen pics of F-15As (early trials aircraft?) dropping large numbers of Mk82s from MERs.

 

I've seen RAF phantoms carrying 15X1000lb bombs or 15xBL755s and Buccaneers carrying 16 1000lb GPs.

 

*For Garth's benefit, the most recent disposition for this famous airfame (AF 71-0291) I can find is being a battle damage repair trainer at Robins AFB in 2005.

Edited November 28, 2010 by Chris Werb

[Archie Pellagio]

The F-15E can carry 12 500lb JDAMs, or if greater penetration is required 12 SDBs (or a 6/6 mix of both). In addition, provided 3 bags of fuel are not needed, the centerline station can carry a 2000lb weapon (JDAM, GBU-24 with either thermobaric, HE or bunker busting warheads) or the 4700lb GBU-28 'super' bunker buster.

 

I would also like to state that this would be a realistic combat loadout (the bombs, two wing fuel tanks and four missiles for self defense). Combat radius would be around 600-900 miles, though far less if CAS station orbiting is required.

 

12 500lb JDAM's?

How do you reckon this?

There are six sponson hardpoints for 500lb bombs and Mk82 based bombs are no longer carrier in TER's by F15's with the 6xMER's completely retired from service.

 

and regardless of range expect the underwing drop tanks as standard for the simple reason that tankers will be limited and maximum flexibility would be required.

 

 

I'm old enough to remember the original Strike Eagle demonstrator (and had the Hasegawa kit) that showed the plane carrying a much larger quantity of bombs. This was in the days of the 3+3MERs.

 

 

I've also seen pics of F-15As (early trials aircraft?) dropping large numbers of Mk82s from MERs.

 

I've seen RAF phantoms carrying 15X1000lb bombs or 15xBL755s and Buccaneers carrying 16 1000lb GPs.

 

The prototype differed from the final production beagle though, there were an extra two sponsoon hardpoints for Mk82's as well as the MER's no longer being in service.

 

As for A's and C's dropping Mk82's, they could but they didn't have even basic CCIP capability it was completely TLAR.