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ShotMagnet
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ShotMagnet Crew

ShotMagnet

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Who holds the record for most AFV kills?

 

The question is meant to focus on individuals armed with RPG, Panzerfaust/-schreck, hollow-charge mines, etc. AT Gun crews of note are of interest to me as well.

 

I know all about Rudel and his exploits, and the legendary panzer aces, I'm more interested in what individuals, armed with the stuff in the first para (or maybe not even that) did.

 

 

Shot

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bojan Hierophant Lord

bojan

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Posted

Enough said.

...

 

Way overrated, with overblown claims. But he was "good Nazi" poster child for propaganda hence reputation.

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bojan Hierophant Lord

bojan

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bojan,

 

Thats like saying Eric Hartman only flew gliders.

 

No, Hartmanns's kills can be checked with Soviet archives and lot of them correspond with Soviet loses. Rudel claimed tank Bns destroyed where there were none present on the ground. Lot of his claims also include tanks only marginally damaged or only hit but not damaged.

Hey, even in 1999. how many tanks did NATO claim and how many were really destroyed? And that is with all advanced vision aids that 60 years of advance gave us.

Edited by bojan
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kevineduguay1 Crew

kevineduguay1

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bojan,

 

You do make a good point. But even if Rudel only realy had 1/4 of the kills he claimed he would still be top contender.

 

Stalin had a price on Rudels head just like he had one on Hartman. Rudel was as infamous to the Russians as he was famous to the Germans.

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Sardaukar Crew

Sardaukar

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Well..since original question was:

 

The question is meant to focus on individuals armed with RPG, Panzerfaust/-schreck, hollow-charge mines, etc. AT Gun crews of note are of interest to me as well.

I know all about Rudel and his exploits, and the legendary panzer aces, I'm more interested in what individuals, armed with the stuff in the first para (or maybe not even that) did.

 

So why are you guys talking about Rudel?

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CV9030FIN Crew

CV9030FIN

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Posted

 

 

So why are you guys talking about Rudel?

 

...Because this is Tank net? Never ever a thread stays on its orginal topic for more than 3 posts...

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Olof Larsson Crew

Olof Larsson

Posted
Posted

bojan,

 

You do make a good point. But even if Rudel only realy had 1/4 of the kills he claimed he would still be top contender.

 

The problem is that pilots over-claimed with a factor 10 till 100 versus tanks during the war.

Be they russian, german, brittons of yanks.

 

In all military areas, irrespective of wheather we are talking about aircraft vs. aircraft,

tank vs. tank, snipers vs. soldiers, submariners vs. surface ships etc. and irrespective of which war and which nation

we study kill-ratios follow a normal distribution curve.

 

There is one exeption and that is the specific combination of:

- Aircrafts vs. tank

- World war II

- German pilots

 

With Rudel having >500 "confirmed kills" and considering the total lack of collegues flying Ju 87G

with >300 "confirmed kills" and hordes of collegues with >100 "confirmed kills",

Rudel was probably over-claiming more then his collegues so all in all i guess he rather over-claimed by a factor 100, then a factor 10.

 

We do forinstance know that the two cruisers he was credited with sinking was in reality zero.

Furthermore if one lockes at the WWII propaganda movies about Rudel,

the movies shows a mix of targets being obviously missed

and targets hit with undetermined effect.

 

So all in all Rudel was most likely the most over-rated "ace" of the world war II.

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kevineduguay1 Crew

kevineduguay1

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WOW!!! I blew it!!! I will no longer mention Rudel. My mistake. Sorry.

 

The greatest tank killer of all time is probably a German. It would be some obscure individual that had his units possition over run by Soviet tanks. He may have been part of a tank hunter section armed with a pistol, a teller mine, a grenade bundle or two, smoke grenades, and maybe a half full gas can and some single grenades. Despite all this his main weapons were stealth and nerve as he did most of his work up close, many times actually touching his target with his hands. There were many like him but as to their name I have no idea.

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Xavier Crew

Xavier

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It's Erich Hartmann, Again my fault. I should have known better. I read his book.

Well, duh, not many Germans named Eric around :P

 

 

(actually, I read Eric Cartman first... :o )

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mnm Crew

mnm

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Posted
The greatest tank killer of all time is probably a German. It would be some obscure individual that had his units possition over run by Soviet tanks. He may have been part of a tank hunter section armed with a pistol, a teller mine, a grenade bundle or two, smoke grenades, and maybe a half full gas can and some single grenades. Despite all this his main weapons were stealth and nerve as he did most of his work up close, many times actually touching his target with his hands. There were many like him but as to their name I have no idea.

Same as numberless Soviets, Americans, Brits, etc.

 

Next, please.

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Sardaukar Crew

Sardaukar

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Got this from other source:

 

Toivo Ilomäki was born in 1917 and worked as a storeman before the Winter War. He participated in the Winter War and the early Continuation war as a member of an anti-tank gun crew initially as an ammunition carrier. However, in the middle of a battle in 1941 when the gunner did not seem to be able to hit anything, he went to the platoon commander and said he would be a better shot. With the permission of the platoon commander he then demonstrated this by shooting into a tree that fell on Soviet infantry.

In 1944 he was the gunner of a PaK40 and destroyed a total of 21 tanks. At the Battle of Sammatus alone he destroyed 16 Soviet tanks over three days, many of them at close range in the middle of a Soviet artillery barrage. These included T-34 tanks and IS-2 heavy tanks. He was the only man in the Finnish army to get all four additional stripes to the tank killer badge and received the Mannerheim Cross for his valour.

After the war Ilomäki returned to his job as a storeman and died in 1965, aged just 48. His gun (with 21 kill marks) is preserved in the armour museum in Parola.

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Marek Tucan Crew

Marek Tucan

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Lost the link, but saw a detailed dissection of one exceptionally well recorded incident of massive LW "Antitank" strike at Kursk, which led to claims for about 60 Soviet tanks destroyed - it could be linked with the records of an armored brigade of which one Bn reported heavy air attacks during the battle. All in all, on that day, the Bn in question lost 11 tanks to all causes. YXo the overclaiming was AT LEAST ca. 6:1, more likely significantly higher...

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