Tomas Hoting Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 German Minister of Defense Thomas de Maiziere has severly criticized the situation in his ministry (AKA the "snake pit") and the insufficient preparations (in his eyes) for the reform of the Bundeswehr by his predecessor, Karl-Theodor zu Guttenberg. He is suppopsed to outline his reform plans on Wednesday. Some of the others latest rumours are:- a troop strength of 170000 (plus up to 15000 "voluntary conscripts")- a greater emphasis on homeland defense and less on foreign adventures- financing the foreign missions out of the general budget instead of the Bundeswehr budget itself (e.g. over 1 billion € annually for the mission in AFG) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Werb Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 - a greater emphasis on homeland defense and less on foreign adventures Home defence from what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomas Hoting Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 Home defence from what? The PIIGS of course, those greedy little buggers... Besides, homeland defense is the Bundeswehr's first and foremost constitutional task. That's something those politicans with the idea to create an RDF-like Bundeswehr seem to have forgotten, and having to finance foreign adventures out of the general budget might force them to think twice about sending our guys and gals abroad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Werb Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 The PIIGS of course, those greedy little buggers... Besides, homeland defense is the Bundeswehr's first and foremost constitutional task. That's something those politicans with the idea to create an RDF-like Bundeswehr seem to have forgotten, and having to finance foreign adventures out of the general budget might force them to think twice about sending our guys and gals abroad. The thing is, in order to have home defence (something we effectively did away with 1957-67 and only very half heartedly reinstated c. 1975-89) you have to acknowledge there is a threat. If there is a conventional threat to Germany, it has to be Russia. Defending against Russia would entail a far larger armed force than Germany has now and some pretty serious defence preparations (extensive prepared demolitions, large home guard, robust nationwide IADS, shelter programme, civilians issued with NBC gear etc.). I can't believe the political will for that still exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomas Hoting Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 I can't believe the political will for that still exists. You would be hard-pressed to find a political will at all with our current ruling government. It's just a half-hearted approach to national security dictated by financial constraints, with the pendulum now appearing to swing more towards homeland defense, that's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seahawk Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 Home defence also means disaster relief and other support functions for the civil government services. Apart from that I support the direction, as some neighbouring countries are heading a dangerous way. It is wrong imho to scrap Patriots and keep some short range anti-mortar defence systems for deployment world wide, as you won´t regain the SAM capability again, in case some middle eastern or north African country starts firing BMs at Europe. One should at least keep the capability to have a protection of the biggest population centres against single MRBMs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BansheeOne Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 Well, that revealed nothing much that wasn't previously reported (170,000 professionals plus 5,000-15,000 voluntary short-timers depending on recruitment), but rather confused a little more. De Maizière stated the Heer will have three division-level commands and eight brigades; does that include the French-German Brigade and the KSK, both being one-star commands, or will there actually be one or two airmobile brigades, or what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BansheeOne Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 By latest reports the two airborne regiments will in fact form a brigade-level "Specialized Operations Command". Somebody drew up a chart to that effect: Also, there will be two inactive tank battalions in addition to the four active ones, each with four line companies for a total of 24 (now 18). By the same token, there will be an inactive artillery battalion in addition to the three active ones, each with three gun batteries and one MLRS for a total of 12/4 (now 13/5). Recon battalions will have one company of 24 Fenneks, one light company with Fuchs for transport, and one UAV company. Not that much of a cut in muscle rather than fat then, actually. 2,500 of the 170,000 posts for professional soldiers are supposed to be filled by activated reservists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BansheeOne Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 More detailed chart. Apparently there is still some confusion on whether the "Specialized Operations Command" will be a brigade-level roof for two parachute regiments, or in fact be a glorified SOF support regiment by itself charged with the mission to save a star for the airborne forces ... The engineer battalions are reported to have two armored companies and one heavy engineering as well as one inactive company of one type in three brigades, and of the other in the rest. The logistics battalions really only have three maintenance companies each, all transport units outside HQ companies going over to Force Base. There is a competing rumor of a slightly leaner structure with a heavy division of four Panzer and five Panzergrenadier battalions, and a medium division of three Gebirgsjäger, two Jäger and four Panzergrenadier battalions, plus the rest like above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m4a1 Posted May 25, 2011 Author Share Posted May 25, 2011 It seems that Germans chose not to sacrifice the heavy equipment (like tanks, artillery) thanks to maintaing those reserve battalions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BansheeOne Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Navy news: Operational parts (left side): Deployment Flotilla 1 - two mine countermeasure squadrons (only one with ten mine hunters after 2020, the other being transformed into operating two planned Joint Support Ships) - submarine squadron (6 U 212A) - corvette squadron (5 K 130 plus future K 131, now renamed Class 180 Multi-Role Combat Ship) - Sea Battalion (re-amalgated navy security/boarding forces) - Combat Divers - bases Deployment Flotilla 2 - two frigate squadrons (one with four F 123 and three F 124, the other with four F 125 and six Class 180 Multi-Role Combat Ships after 2020) - auxiliary squadron (three Berlin class AOEs and two replacement tankers for Rhön and Spessart, future JSS?) - bases Naval Aviation - aircraft wing (eight P-3C MPAs) - helicopter wing with 30 aircraft (the navy prefers the S-92 at this point, but it might still become the MH 90), including UAVs (Schiebel Camcopter) - all in one base 2,500 of the 170,000 posts for professional soldiers are supposed to be filled by activated reservists. After a slight uproar in parliament, the MoD indicated that those 2,500 posts will actually be in addition to the 170,000, not included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BansheeOne Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Reports of an army reserve component that sounds a little like the "mixed" fourth maneuver battalions of the brigades in Heeresstruktur 4 of old. Apparently the inactive tank/artillery/engineer battalions will only have a fixed HQ company/battery and be filled up with armor/infantry/artillery/engineer companies/batteries according to mission (including domestic disaster relief) if activated. Those inactive companies will be part of active battalions until so used. The talk is of ca. two dozen such units. I figure it will be about four tank companies (one per active tank battalion), six engineer companies (already noted in earlier post), eight Jäger/Gebirgsjäger companies and three artillery batteries for the two inactive armor, one engineer and one artillery battalion each. Probably a little more of one and a little less of the other. Likely no Panzergrenadiers, since the Puma order of 410 is pretty much covered by nine active battalions of 44. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BansheeOne Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 (edited) The official charts of the future raw structure are finally out. Somebody who has followed this thread will find no great surprises. http://augengeradeaus.net/2011/09/die-grobstruktur-steht/#more-5068 ETA: High-res charts on MoD website List of abbrevations (German) Edited September 21, 2011 by BansheeOne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seahawk Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 CH53 to the Luftwaffeall NH-90 to the Heer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomas Hoting Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Mechanization über alles, but apparently we have too many helicopters... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomas Hoting Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 (edited) Thomas Wiegold posted some new info about the Bundeswehr's future inventory (including equipment which is already in service or will be acquired) on his blog: Article in German:http://augengeradeaus.net/2011/10/kunftig-noch-225-leos-bei-der-bundeswehr/ Army Leopard 2 – reduction from 350 to 225Puma – reduction from 410 to 350 (deliveries starting in 2013)Marder – to be removed from serviceGTK Boxer - still 272Fuchs - still 765Fennek - still 212Panzerhaubitze 2000 – reduction from 148 to 81MLRS – reduction from 55 to 38NH90 – reduction from 122 to 80Tiger – reduction from 80 to 40Bo105 - to be removed from service Air Force Eurofighter – reduction from 177 to 140 (all multi-role)Tornado – reduction from 185 to 85Transall – reduction from 80 to 60A400M – reduction from 60 to 40CH-53 – reduction from 82 to 64Global Hawk – reduction from 6 to 4SAATEG MALE UAV – reduction from 22 to 16CSAR - requirement for 19 kits, but no immediate procurementPatriot – reduction from 29 to 14Mantis/NBS C-RAM - still 4 Navy: P-3C Orion - still 8SeaKing/Sea Lynx - reduction from 21 res. 22 to 0, but 30 new naval helicopters will be acquired (no decision on which type)Frigate F122 – to be removed from serviceFrigate F123 - still 4Frigate F124 - still 3Frigate F125 - still 4Corvette K130 - still 5Multi Role Combat Vessel 180 – reduction from 8 to 6Submarine U212 - still 6Mine Countermeasure Vessels – reduction from 20 to 10Fleet Service Vessels - still 3Joint Support Ship - 2 are planned, but no immediate procurement Some info is still missing (e.g. how many Dingo MRAPs, Ozelot self-propelled SAM systems, Wiesels etc.). Edited October 18, 2011 by Tomas Hoting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BansheeOne Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 (edited) I see the "restricted" list with planned equipment numbers we got this morning has reliably found its way onto the internet already: Heer 225 Leopard 2350 Puma272 Boxer (more possible to compensate for reduction in Pumas)765 Fuchs212 Fennek81 PzH 200038 MLRS80 NH 9040 Tiger Luftwaffe 140 Eurofighter85 Tornado40 A400M64 CH-535 Eurohawk4 Global Hawk (for joint NATO AGS force)16 MALE (Heron TP, Predator and Talarion in the running as a follow-on to Heron 1)19 CSAR sets planned, but no procurement at this time14 Patriot firing units (no MEADS)4 MANTIS C-RAM firing units Marine 8 P-3 Orion30 helicopters (MH 90 and CH-148 in the running to replace Sea King and Sea Lynx)4 Fregatte 1233 Fregatte 1244 Fregatte 1255 Korvette 1306 Multirole Combat Ship 1806 U 21210 minehunters3 ELINT vessels2 Joint Support Ships planned, but no procurement at this time The army equipment numbers don't quite fill the planned structure. Word around the campfire is that systems will be pooled for training and deployment. ETA: Damn, too late. Edited October 18, 2011 by BansheeOne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rohala Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Greece will be happy to sweep those Pzh2000, Leo 2 and possibly other stuff (NH90?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomas Hoting Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Greece will be happy to sweep those Pzh2000, Leo 2 and possibly other stuff (NH90?) No freebies for Greece, cash preferred... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
APF Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Greece will be happy to sweep those Pzh2000, Leo 2 and possibly other stuff (NH90?) Me guesses that Greece will be happy if they can afford to run some of their already existing equipment by the end of next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urbanoid Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 I suppose that those 225 remaining Leos are the A6's, how many of them ,if any, are planned to be modernized to A7 variant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Clark Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 A bit surprised that BansheeOne has not yet posted on the base closure programme announced today, but he´s probably still celebrating with his boss as her district has managed to avoid any closures. Details of base closures (in German, but the map is pretty self-explanatory.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BansheeOne Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 The whole list with independent units and total personnel numbers before and after for every last base in Germany is here (also German, obviously). I didn't post it yet because it doesn't add much insight into the future structure and is a bear to plow through unless you're looking for info on a specific base. We're keeping ours and even will have the majority of one of the future two para regiments, even if overall personnel numbers are going down. IOW we'll keep the battalion's worth we have now, while the co-located units (brigade recon company, one company from brigade support battalion, MP company) get disbanded. Chances are the future regiment's support companies will be based at the current support battalion's location, IOW just stay where they are now. The brigades' second line battalion is also disbanded and brigade HQ will move into its current base. This will be the one remaining airborne one-star command, though it's recon and engineer company will be from the other current brigade and be based with the second para regiment up in Seedorf, Lower Saxony. Based upon this, my guess is the future regiments will look like this: - HQ company- 5 x parachute company- heavy parachute company (Wiesel)- airborne medical company- airborne logistics company Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomas Hoting Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 Luftwaffe Officer's School instead of Tiger helicopters. *Sigh* Well, beggars can't be choosers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BansheeOne Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 German Wikipedia is trying to consolidate the list for the Heer: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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