German Armed Forces reduced to 150 000?

[Ssnake]

The Heer needs spare parts, ammo, and modern radios. As I understand it, the ammo restocking is supposed to be paid out of the regular budget, and I'm not sure if the dearth of spare parts can be solved by shoveling more money at it (but I sure hope that the problem will be solved). The radios, a new generation of SDR sets is supposed to be delivered, so there's hope.

[BansheeOne]

Yeah, a lot of what the Heer really, really needs (like, radios that don't represent 70s technology and can actually communicate with more powerful NATO partners like, Lithuania) is in the separate C4 part or the two billion for personal equipment, and I suspect the urgent requirement for tactical air defense is covered by the appropriate point listed under air systems. It's also a trueism that naval and air systems will be more expensive per number. If there's something that jumps out, it's the lack of artillery being adressed, another actual critical gap.

[Rick]

To our German members, is there a large amount of public support for increased expenditures to the German military? 

[Ssnake]

Yes.

Lowest support in the eastern parts, and among AfD voters (and the Commies).

[BansheeOne]

In numbers, per a survey published this week 67 percent of respondents agreed somewhat or fully with the funding, 23 percent found it rather or completely wrong. In the West German states agreement was 70:20 or more, in the East around 50:40.

By party affiliation, agreement was strongest among Conservatives with 84:10, followed by Liberals with 81:12, Greens with 76:14, and Social Democrats with 69:20; it was lowest among Left Party voters with 20:70, and AfD voters with 29:59. The former is unsurprising, the latter damn funny since the AfD has been presenting itself as the party of disgruntled soldiers abandoned by the political establishement, among other public service groups; but apparently not when reverting neglect is about defending allies against a threat by Russia.

[BansheeOne]

On 5/31/2022 at 8:03 PM, BansheeOne said:

successor for remaining Fuchs APCs (more Boxers, or something else?)

Germany will reportedly join Patria's CAVS program for this, following Sweden, Latvia and Estonia.

Meanwhile the Bundesrat, the chamber of states, also agreed to the relevant legislation for the special funds.

[BansheeOne]

The government has made an offer to buy the Rostock site of bankrupt cruise liner builder MV Shipyards as an expansion to the Navy Arsenal to improve maintenance capacities for and thus availability of the Marine's vessels. Still, the Inspector of the Marine stated today that they're also looking to reduce deployments to the Mediterranean IOT focus on the North and Baltic Sea vis-a-vis Russia.

[BansheeOne]

On 6/22/2021 at 6:58 PM, BansheeOne said:

After defense minister Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer announced to introduce several projects for which funding hadn't been specifically secured into the Bundestag budget committee - which annoyed coalition MPs who basically asked if she had used available funds wisely enough - mid-term budget numbers have been revised thusly:

2022: 50.33 billion Euro

2023: 47.34 billion Euro 

2024: 47.16 billion Euro

2025: 46.74 billion Euro

All previous caveats apply. 

By revised planning, the regular 2023 budget will now be 50.3 billion again and stay at that level until 2026 for a total of 12.4 billion over the previous plan, about three per year on average. Additional expenses from the special funds will be only 8.5 billion for initial measures next year, total of 58.8. Assuming that additional defense expenditures from other budgets remain at ca. five billion (might also increase of course), we're still just looking at about 1.4 percent of the GDP, so the real rise will be in the subsequent two-three years when the rest of the extra 100 billion are supposed to be spent.

[BansheeOne]

On 5/31/2022 at 8:03 PM, BansheeOne said:

successors for Wiesel and Wolf in their airborne role jointly with the Netherlands

While the Wiesel successor is still at the demonstrator stage, the replacement for the Wolf (and Mungo, and probably Wiesel 2) may be the Defenture GRF, already in Dutch service. At least Defenture and KMW just signed a MoU to offer the GRF with ten different KMW-designed mission kits when a request to tender is extended, expected for next year.

[Ssnake]

So, Vector on steroids. Good for them.

[BansheeOne]

On 6/28/2022 at 4:20 PM, BansheeOne said:

The government has made an offer to buy the Rostock site of bankrupt cruise liner builder MV Shipyards as an expansion to the Navy Arsenal to improve maintenance capacities for and thus availability of the Marine's vessels.

Sold, to the gentlemen in the blue uniforms.

The Bundeswehr also intends to increase critical enablers for deployments within Europe - an additional logistics battalion, two NBC companies and an MP company, an additional 2,000 posts in the medical service. Given that the overall buildup of personnel strength has been stuck for the last two years, that's of course easier said than done; of partial help may be that the number of reserve slots will be increased from 4,500 to 7,500 by 2027.

The implementation of the EU Working Time Directive for the Bundeswehr, long a controversial topic, is also being reinvestigated. A new Territorial Command will be established effective 1 October as the equivalent of the Deployed Forces Command, taking over lead of all national defense and domestic support missions as well as coordination of logistical support for allied forces.

[BansheeOne]

On 5/18/2022 at 8:30 PM, BansheeOne said:

Latest reports suggest that rather than the 292 Pumas so far planned in the second batch, the Heer wants only 100, and the balance to be replaced by Boxer IFVs. That would mean two current Panzergrenadier battalions change from the tracked to the wheeled role. Not sure how that would fit into the intended seven-brigade (excluding airborne) organization, wich now includes seven Panzer battalions (one of which assigned to NL 43rd Mechanized Brigade), nine active and two inactive Panzergrenadier battalions, four-and-a-half active and one inactive Jäger plus three Gebirgsjäger battalions for a total of 27-1 if filled out.

Rheinmetall states that 111 Pumas will be ordered. The MoD will only confirm that the decision to procure has been made, but that the exact number is subject to plans for the exact coming organization being finalized.

[AETiglathPZ]

Australian Youtuber, Perun. He see some issues with Germany trying to rearm quickly even with 100B Euros thrown at it. I also found it interesting that France has more military for less money.

[BansheeOne]

On 5/31/2022 at 8:03 PM, BansheeOne said:

- 20.7 billion for C4: Digitalization of Land-Based Operations (DLBO), a Tactical Wide Area Network (TAWAN), extending SATCOMBw, a German Mission Network for deployments abroad, a data center network, more PRC-117G off the shelf.

Part of DLBO will be the Motorola MXP7000 combined TETRA/cellphone voice and data capability handheld set. TETRA is used by domestic organizations since it depends upon a fixed infrastructure for long-range communication, but has also been employed by the Bundeswehr in Afghanistan.

Numbers seem to indicate this is intended for operations across the board, even outside a functional grid, relying on the short-range direct set-to-set mode on a tactical level. DLBO calls for 1.852 sets and another optional 3.039 to be delivered between 2023 and 2025, and further options for about 4.800 more in 2025-2028 and another 5.500 in 2028-2030. Total of ca. 15,000, consistent with the plan to have a "digitalized" division by 2030.

[BansheeOne]

On 5/18/2022 at 8:30 PM, BansheeOne said:

 

Latest reports suggest that rather than the 292 Pumas so far planned in the second batch, the Heer wants only 100, and the balance to be replaced by Boxer IFVs. That would mean two current Panzergrenadier battalions change from the tracked to the wheeled role. Not sure how that would fit into the intended seven-brigade (excluding airborne) organization, wich now includes seven Panzer battalions (one of which assigned to NL 43rd Mechanized Brigade), nine active and two inactive Panzergrenadier battalions, four-and-a-half active and one inactive Jäger plus three Gebirgsjäger battalions for a total of 27-1 if filled out.

So we finally get a 2027 target structure. For the first time it depicts full Dutch-German Army integration with NL 43rd Mechanized Brigade assigned to 1st Panzer Division as it already is, but also 13th Infantery Brigade to 10th Panzer and 11th Airmobile Brigade to Division Rapid Forces, which also takes over GER Mountain Brigade 23. There are some other expected novelties, and some unexpected.

The current "standard" mechanized brigade organization with three mech and one Jäger battalions, long questioned, are changed to pure mech and motorized infantry brigades. All previous Jäger battalions seem to be designated "wheeled grenadiers", suggesting at least partial equipment with the Boxer IFV variant, three battalions to a brigade. Every mech and motorized infantry brigade gets an artillery battalion, tracked or wheeled respectively, which will also develop air defense capabilities.

The French-German Brigade retains its designation, but appears planned to be filled up with national brigade units and a third maneuver battalion being "investigated"; establishment of a brigade reconnaissance company seems to indicate that Jägerbataillon 292 is turned from an understrength mixed recon/infantry formation into a proper maneuver element, too. There is also an unkown German third maneuver battalion "to be confirmed" for NL 13th Brigade.

Interestingly Fallschirmjägerregiment 26 is also reformed from its current overstrength battalion organization into three proper maneuver battalions which make up Airborne Brigade 1 in the future, while Fallschirmjägerregiment 31 retains its designation and is still labeled "national crisis preparation", so will likely remain tasked with EvacOps; my guess is they will also assume 26's two "enhanced basic capability" companies. An additional special operations company, separate from the KSK, is to be confirmed; it's not the future Long Range Reconnaissance Company 1, which is listed under corps troops.

Reserve formations not pictured. Even so, this represents a considerable increase in personnel strength, which appears questionable with current targets, much less what has actually been achieved since the build-up drive was launched.

[Ssnake]

What are those wheeled artillery (and air defense) systems?

[kokovi]

I think that structure is stupid. It still seems Germany sees larger formations just as administrative level - how should the airborne division lead mountain and airborne ops at the same time. Enablers / logistics / medical units are still in different services. Still too few artillery and tanks. And the whole medium forces thing is just pointless IMHO. They could better invest in heavy units and logistics for serious combat power. Additionally, this whole NL/GER Integration thing will just lead to logistical breakdown if ever really tested.

[BansheeOne]

4 hours ago, Ssnake said:

What are those wheeled artillery (and air defense) systems?

I'd guess wheeled artillery would be either RCH 155 on Boxer chassis or the same remote-controlled turret on HX3 8x8/10x10 truck as currently evaluated by Hungary. Air defense probably Skyranger 30/35. At this point it's just pretty colored rectangles, of course.

[Ssnake]

7 hours ago, BansheeOne said:

At this point it's just pretty colored rectangles

TBDs are bestest future weapons. Though there doesn't seem to be, by Bundeswehr standards at any rate, time to actually run a tender, trials, and the actual procurement. 2023 is merely four months away, three years then until end of 2025.

Maybe I should register for this year's armor symposium in November.

[Ssnake]

12 hours ago, kokovi said:

Additionally, this whole NL/GER Integration thing will just lead to logistical breakdown if ever really tested.

Why?

Leopard 2 logistics are completely in German hands. CV90 is completely Dutch territory. Both are using PzH 2000/MLRS. Apaches are completely the Dutch's responsibility.

[BansheeOne]

Idly looking ahead at German naval planning for the 2030s. The next major project after F126 (ex MKS180) will be (surprise!) F127, a large multi-purpose frigate jointly developed with the Netherlands. Which probably means the respective national classes will share some design details, like the Kortenaers and F122, and the De Zeven Provinciëns and F124.

- Six ships to replace the three F124 from 2032. Of course experience indicates they will be about five years late. Mind that options for two additional F126 in addition to the four ships ordered currently remain, too.

- Arleigh-Burke-sized with similar mission profile - anti-air, anti-surface, anti-submarine and, over the course of the program, endo- and possibly exo-atmospheric ABM, but also information and cyber warfare capabilities - though with about half the crew.

- Possible armament SM-3/6 or the projected seabased European Midcourse Interceptor, ESSM and RAM Block II, potentially high power lasers; plus anti-surface/land attack and stand-off ASW weapons.

- Two flexible stowage areas: aft bay for a speedboat of up to twelve meters, UUVs, mines, a containerized modular towed array sonar or other containerized equipment; two separate hangars, one for stowage and maintenance of a helicopter, and another for stowage of another helicopter, UAVs or again, UUVs, a speedboat or ISO containers.

- "Unplugged operations" capabilities in severe EW environments with no satellite and other network links, including by use of KI.

[Rick]

What is the German Navy's job?

[BansheeOne]

Right now that's actually a good question. During the Cold War the mission was very clear: keep the Soviets bottled up in the Baltic and contribute to securing the North Sea for trans-Atlantic convoys. Afterwards, it became something cloudy like "contribute to security of international SLOCs and support deployments ashore".

With the changed security situation in Europe, arguably it should turn back a little to the Cold War setting - except that the Baltic today is a NATO lake, particularly with the accession of Finland and Sweden, where the Russian Navy would have to fight uphill even to leave port in St. Petersburg and Kaliningrad. The intended ABM mission for F127 (conceived of two years ago already, so before Ukraine) plus the reference to information and cyber warfare points to a new multidimensional field of action, where the Marine secures Europe not just against strictly naval threats.

[BansheeOne]

On 7/13/2021 at 12:14 PM, BansheeOne said:

Effective 1 August, the regional security and support companies will be renamed good old-fashioned Heimatschutzkompanien, staffed in part by volunteers under the new scheme. The number is planned to rise from 30 to 42 until 2025, subordinated to five territorial defense regiments in Bavaria, Berlin, Hesse, Mecklenburg-Vorpommern and North Rhine-Westphalia.

Following the pilot Heimatschutzregiment 1 in Bavaria, No. 2 was established in North Rhine-Westphalia in February, also to eventually include seven companies. As of yesterday it seems clear that No. 3 will be in Lower Saxony which lobbied for it; not sure if this will replace or be in addition to the states mentioned earlier, as it appears to include only five companies. Even if this is a sixth regiment, the planned total number of 42 companies should allocate seven of the latter to each though.

ETA: Actually, going purely by population numbers, the scheme should look someting like this:

Bavaria (13.2 million) - seven companies (plus HQ company and support company with recon, engineer and heavy infantery platoon) in one regiment

North Rhine-Westphalia (17.9 million), Baden-Württemberg (11.1 million), Hesse (6.3 million), Rhineland-Palatinate (4.1 million), Saarland (1.0 million) = 40.4 million - 21 companies in three regiments (one NRW, one BW/RLP/SL, one HE/NRW/RLP)

Lower Saxony (8.0 million), Schleswig-Holstein (2.9 million), Hamburg (1.9 million), Bremen (0.7 million) = 14.5 million - seven companies in one regiment

Saxony (4.1 million), Berlin (3.7 million), Brandenburg (2.5 million), Saxony-Anhalt (2.2 million), Thuringia (2.1 million), Mecklenburg-Vorpommern (1.6 million) = 15.7 million - seven companies in one regiment

Edited September 25, 2022 by BansheeOne

[BansheeOne]

Okay, this is reportedly a sixth regiment. Though that doesn't mean they will eventually all be the size of the Bavarian pilot formation; I understand some of the planned 42 companies will be affiliated with the Luftwaffe and dedicated exclusively to airbase security (probably including host nation support) rather than double for donestic disaster relief missions.