German Armed Forces reduced to 150 000?

[Simon Tan]

We blame the Germans anyway. You and your 8cm Kurz mortars.

[BansheeOne]

Every last bit you ever bloody wanted to know about what company in the Heer will transfer where at what point in the reform (German).

 

The breakdown:

 

 

1. Panzerdivision (Oldenburg)

 

- HQ/Signals Company 1. PzDiv (Oldenburg)

- Unterstützungsbataillon Einsatz 1 (inactive - Oldenburg); 2 x Support Company

- Artillerielehrbataillon 325 (Munster); HSS, 5 x Artillery Battery (one inactive)

- Fernmeldebataillon 610 (Prenzlau)

- schweres Pionierbataillon 901 (semi-active - Havelberg); HSS, Heavy Engineer Company (inactive), 3 x Bridging Company (active)

 

- Panzerlehrbrigade 9 (Munster)

-- HQ/Signals Company PzLehrBrig 9 (Munster)

-- Panzergenadierbataillon 33 (Neustadt am Rübenberge); HSS, 3 x Mech Infantry Company

-- Jägerbataillon 91 (Rothenburg an der Wümme); HSS, 3 x Infantry, Heavy, Training Support Company

-- Panzergrenadierlehrbataillon 92 (Munster); HSS, 3 x Mech Infantry, Training Support Company

-- Panzerlehrbataillon 93 (Munster); HSS, 3 x Armor Company

-- Panzerbataillon 414 (semi-active - Munster); HSS, 3 x Armor Company (two active)

-- Aufklärungslehrbataillon 3 (Lüneburg); HSS, 4 x Recon Company (one inactive)

-- Panzerpionierbataillon 130 (Minden); HSS, 3 x Engineer Company (one inactive)

-- Versorgungsbataillon 141 (Neustadt am Rübenberge); HSS, 1 x Type A, B, C Logistics Company each

 

- Panzerbrigade 21 (Augustdorf)

-- HQ/Signals Company PzBrig 21 (Augustdorf)

-- Jägerbataillon 1 (Schwarzenborn); HSS, 3 x Infantry, Heavy, Training Support Company

-- Panzerbataillon 203 (Augustdorf); HSS, 3 x Armor Company

-- Panzergrenadierbataillon 212 (Augustdorf); HSS, 3 x Mech Infantry, Training Support Company

-- Jägerbataillon 921 (inactive - Schwarzenborn); HSS, 3 x Infantry Company

-- Aufklärungsbataillon 7 (Ahlen/Westfalen); HSS, 3 x Recon Company, Recruit Company 3

-- Versorgungsbataillon 7 (Unna); HSS, 1 x Type A, B, C Logistics Company each, inactive Transport Company

 

- Panzergrenadierbrigade 41 (Neubrandenburg)

-- HQ/Signals Company PzGrenBrig 41 (Neubrandenburg)

-- Panzergrenadierbataillon 401 (Hagenow); HSS, 3 x Mech Infantry, Training Support Company

-- Panzergrenadierbataillon 411 (Viereck); HSS, 3 x Mech Infantry, Training Support Company

-- Jägerbataillon 413 (Torgelow); HSS, 3 x Infantry, Heavy Company, Recruit Company 4

-- Panzergrenadierbataillon 908 (inactive - Viereck); HSS, 3 x Mech Infantry Company

-- Aufklärungsbataillon 6 (Eutin); HSS, 3 x Recon Company

-- Panzerpionierbataillon 803 (Havelberg); HSS, 3 x Engineer Company (one inactive)

-- Versorgungsbataillon 142 (Hagenow); HSS, 1 x Type A, B, C Logistics Company each, inactive Transport Company

 

 

10. Panzerdivision (Veitshöchheim)

 

- HQ/Signals Company PzDiv 10 (Veitshöchheim)

- Unterstützungsbataillon Einsatz 10 (inactive - Veitshöchheim); 2 x Support Company

- Artileriebataillon 131 (Weiden); HSS, 5 x Artillery Battery (one inactive)

- Artillerielehrbataillon 345 (Idar-Oberstein); HSS, 6 x Artillery Battery (one inactive)

- Pionierbataillon 905 (inactive - Ingolstadt); HSS, 3 x Engineer Company

 

- Panzerbrigade 12 (Cham)

-- HQ/Signals Company PzBrig 12

-- Gebirgspanzerbataillon 8 (semi-active - Pfreimd); HSS, 3 x Armor Company (two active)

-- Panzerbataillon 104 (Pfreimd); HSS, 3 x Armor Company

-- Panzergrenadierbataillon 112 (Regen); HSS, 3 x Mech Infantry, Training Support Company

-- Panzergrenadierbataillon 122 (Oberviechtach); HSS, 3 x Mech Infantry, Training Support Company

-- Aufklärungsbataillon 8 (Freyung); HSS, 3 x Recon Company

-- Panzerpionierbataillon 4 (Bogen); HSS, 3 x Engineer Company

-- Versorgungsbataillon 4 (Roding); HSS, 1 x Type A, B, C Logistics Company each

 

- Gebirgsjägerbrigade 23 (Bad Reichenhall)

-- HQ/Signals Company GebJgBrig 23 (Bad Reichenhall)

-- Gebirgsjägerbataillon 231 (Bad Reichenhall); HSS, 4 x Mountain (one inactive), Heavy Company

-- Gebirgsjägerbataillon 232 (Bischofswiesen); HSS, 4 x Mountain (one inactive), Heavy, Training Support Company

-- Gebirgsjägerbataillon 233 (Mittenwald); HSS, 4 x Mountain (one inactive), Heavy, Training Support Company

-- Gebirgsaufklärungsbataillon 230 (Füssen); HSS, 4 x Recon Company (one inactive)

-- Gebirgspionierbataillon 8 (Ingolstadt); HSS, 3 x Engineer Company

-- Gebirgsversorgungsbataillon 8 (Füssen); HSS, 1 x Type A, B, C Logistics Company each, inactive Transport Company

 

- Panzergrenadierbrigade 37 (Frankenberg)

-- HQ/Signals Company PzGrenBrig 37 (Frankenberg)

-- Panzergrenadierbataillon 371 (Marienberg); HSS, 3 x Mech Infantry, Training Support Company

-- Panzergrenadierbataillon 391 (Bad Salzungen); HSS, 3 x Mech Infantry, Training Support Company

-- Panzerbataillon 393 (Bad Frankenhausen); HSS, 3 x Armor Company

-- Panzergrenadierbataillon 909 (inactive - Marienberg); HSS, 3 x Mech Infantry Company

-- Aufklärungsbataillon 13 (Gotha); HSS, 4 x Recon Company (one inactive)

-- Panzerpionierbataillon 701 (Gera); ; HSS, 3 x Engineer Company, Recruit Company 5

-- Versorgungsbataillon 131 (Bad Frankenhausen); HSS, 1 x Type A, B, C Logistics Company each, inactive Transport Company

 

 

Division Schnelle Kräfte (Stadtallendorf)

 

- HQ/Signals Company DSK (Stadtallendorf)

- Transporthubschrauberregiment 10 (Faßberg)

- Transporthubschrauberregiment 30 (Niederstetten)

- Kampfhubschrauberregiment 36 (Fritzlar)

- KSK (Calw)

 

- Luftlandebrigade 1 (Lebach)

-- HQ/Signals Company LLBrig 1

-- Airborne Reconnaissance Company 310 (Seedorf)

-- Airborne Engineer Company 270 (Seedorf)

-- Fallschirmjägerregiment 26 (Zweibrücken); HSS, 5 x Airborne (one inactive), 1x Heavy, Logistics, Medical Company each, Recruit Company 2

-- Fallschirmjägerregiment 31 (Seedorf); HSS, 7 x Airborne (one inactive), 1x Heavy, Logistics, Medical Company each, Recruit Company 1

 

 

Deutsch-Französische Brigade (Müllheim)

 

- Armored Engineer Company 550 (Stetten am kalten Markt)

- Jägerbataillon 291 (Illkirch), HSS, 2 x Infantry, 1 x Recon Company

- Jägerbataillon 292 (Donaueschingen), HSS, 3 x Infantry, Heavy Company

- Artilleriebataillon 295 (Stetten am kalten Markt), HSS, 4 x Artillery Battery, Recruit Company 6

- Versorgungbataillon D/F Brig (Müllheim)

Edited June 13, 2012 by BansheeOne

[Leo Niehorster]

Just out of curiosity, why is the 1. PzDiv moving to Oldenburg?

Hannover loves that command. Will be sorely missed.

 

The razzy smiley got lost in the posting.

Edited June 14, 2012 by Leo Niehorster

[BansheeOne]

Because the command of 31st Airborne Brigade currently based at Oldenburg is being abolished and the Parliamentary State Secretary of Defense Thomas Kossendey is from there ...

 

I guess the riots against the annual public Summer Bivouac of 1st PzDiv in Hannover might have to do something with it too, and they will now get the Military Police Command in return.

[TonyE]

I miss Fernmeldebataillon 481.

[BansheeOne]

Luftwaffe and Marine details.

 

The current Fighter, Fighter Bomber and Reconnaissance Wings will be be renamed Tactical Air Force Wings in October 2013 to indicate their multi-role missions.

 

- Taktisches Luftwaffengeschwader 31 "Boelcke" (Nörvenich - 31 Eurofighter)

-- Taktische Luftwaffengruppe "Richthofen" (Wittmund - 20 Eurofighter); may become a full wing later

 

- Taktisches Luftwaffengeschwader 33 (Büchel - 44 Tornado IDS)

 

- Taktisches Luftwaffengeschwader 51 "Immelmann" (Jagel - 20 Tornado ECR, 5 Tornado IDS, 16 future MALE UAV, 5 Eurohawk, 4 Global Hawk)

 

- Taktisches Luftwaffengeschwader 73 "Steinhoff" (Laage - 32 Eurofighter)

 

- Taktisches Luftwaffengeschwader 74 (Neuburg/Donau - 32 Eurofighter)

 

- Lufttransportgeschwader 62 (Wunstorf - 40 A400M)

 

- Hubschraubergeschwader 64 (Laupheim, Holzdorf - 64 CH-53)

 

- Lufttransportstaffel Flugbereitschaft BMVg (Berlin - 2 A340, 2 A319 CJ, 4 Global 5000, 3 AS 532; Köln - 4 A310 MRTT)

 

- Flugausbildungszentrum Luftwaffe (Holloman - 24 Eurofighter, 14 Tornado IDS)

 

- Flugabwehrraketengeschwader 1 "Schleswig-Holstein" (Husum)

-- Flugabwehrraketengruppe 21 (Sanitz - 4 x Patriot Squadron)

-- Flugabwehrraketengruppe 24 (Bad Sülze - 4 x Patriot Squadron)

-- Flugabwehrraketengruppe 26 (Husum - 4 x Patriot Squadron)

-- Flugabwehrraketengruppe 61 (Panker - 3 x Ozelot Squadron, later MANTIS)

 

- Objektschutzregiment Luftwaffe "Friesland" (Schortens)

-- I./OSLw (4 x Security Company)

-- II./OSLw (1 x Logistics, Engineer, Firefighter Company each)

[Simon Tan]

What does an inactive company do? Is it manned?

[BansheeOne]

No, inactive units will be filled by reservists upon activation. Typically, the active companies of a reserve unit are attached to an active battalion in peacetime, but keep their own designation; for example, 3./PzBtl 414 to PzLBtl 93, 4./PzBtl 414 to PzBtl 203. Inactive units may or may not have ready gear, usually the fine distinction between "gekadert" and "nichtaktiv"; to equip the latter, you'd usually have to dive into some deeper depots somewhere, else they act as personnel reserve to active units or for domestic emergency relief.

 

The document lists all reserve units as "nichtaktiv", but I'm not sure this is in the more distinguished sense. Pretty sure the inactive PzGren battalions will not have ready gear, at least no Pumas, as numbers don't bear that out. But I would hope that contingency plans exist to give them some old bare-threaded Marders if need be, else it would make no sense to designate them Panzergrenadiere (the mission to simply provide warm bodies for domestic emergencies is ostensibly filled by the divisional "mission support battalions" which seem to be something like the old HQ security battalions).

[urbanoid]

Urbanoid can into resurrecting necro-thread!

 

Can we have local ze Germans say anything about that? Is of legit or just Spiegel can into sensationalism?

 

 

German fighter jets unable to fly and mechanics forced to borrow spare parts, claims magazine A report in Spiegel magazine says German air force is weaker than previously thought and a funding crisis means scores of aircraft are not operational

The German air force is facing such a severe funding shortage that many of its aircraft are unable to fly, mechanics are forced to cannibalise parts from existing planes and only eight of the country's 109 Eurofighters are fully operational, according to a report in Spiegel magazine.

German defence sources have rubbished the article, saying it is inaccurate and does not match up to official air force logs.

But the claim that Germany's air force is not as strong as previously thought will cause concern among its Nato allies at a time of growing worldwide instability.

Germany has the fourth largest air force in Europe, yet the Spiegel report suggests it is far weaker in reality than it is on paper.

Many aircraft are badly in need of repair, and spare parts are in such short supply that mechanics have resorted to taking them from existing planes, said the magazine.

The report claims the German government is now facing embarrassment because ministers promised to send six Eurofighters to the Baltic states next week despite the alleged shortfalls.

It says as few as seven of Germany's 67 CH-53 transport helicopters are fully operational, including those currently deployed in Afghanistan, and only five of its 33 NH-80 helicopters.

Of the 56 C-160 aircraft which carry relief supplies to northern Iraq, only 21 are operational, it claims.

The air force has refused to comment publicly on the report, saying it concerns classified information.

But defence sources have sought to rubbish Spiegel, saying the publication has misinterpreted an internal report. Officials said the magazine's reporters had listed some planes as unable to fly, when in fact they were only in need of routine maintenance.

The row comes against a backdrop of concern over Germany's defence budget.

Despite being Europe's biggest economy, Germany lags far behind its neighbours when it comes to defence spending.

Under a Nato agreement, members are supposed to spend at least two per cent of their GDP on defence, but Germany spends only 1.3 per cent and is planning further cuts.

Since the end of the Second World War, the country's leaders have been reluctant to get involved in military operations abroad because of historic guilt over the crimes of the Nazis.

But recently there have been growing calls for the country's military to take on a bigger international role – not least from the Defence Minister, Ursula von der Leyen.

"Indifference is not an option for a country like Germany," she said in January. She has also said Germany is "almost doomed to take on more responsibility".

But it is thought even Ms von der Leyen – who is one of the best known politicians in the country and widely seen as Angela Merkel's anointed successor – cannot take on the chancellor over defence spending. Mrs Merkel is said to be determined to present a balanced budget in 2015.

Ms von der Leyen's biggest policy so far has been the introduction of creches and flexible working hours to stave off a recruitment crisis in Germany's armed forces since conscription ended in 2011.

But the recruitment drive doesn't appear to be working yet – the German navy is short of 1400 personnel, according to Spiegel.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/11057330/German-fighter-jets-unable-to-fly-and-mechanics-forced-to-borrow-spare-parts-claims-magazine.html

[BansheeOne]

I have not seen the original MoD report cited. I can totally believe the low operational numbers for Transalls; they are old and worn, and were planned to be replaced by the A400M years ago. As for the other types, I suspect the "Spiegel" crew purposefully or for lack of knowledge (and neither would surprise me) got the meaning of "mission-ready" wrong; while the CH-53 is also old and conversely, the NH 90 very new in service with the attendant teething problems, the numbers resemble those which used to be deployed or kept ready for Afghanistan, and eight Eurofighters would correspond to the two alert elements in northern and southern Germany respectively plus backup for scrambled fighters.

 

Of course if an aircraft is not deployed, it's usually undergoing maintenance, which delivers a convenient headline of "most Luftwaffe aircraft in need of repair!!!!!1111!!!". I don't doubt the stated problems with training of mechanics and spare availability though, the former particularly for the new and the latter for the old types.

[BansheeOne]

The Defense Ombudsman of the Bundestag presented his annual report today and used the occasion to state that 2016 must be a turning point for the Bundeswehr due to the lack of personnel and materiél that has become obvious over the last two years of increasing demands after decades of drawdown and skimping on procurement, despite considerable modernization in many fields and some revisions already being made, like increasing the number of tanks and other equipment again. He pointed out that even though the defense budget is planned to increase from currently 33 to 35 billion Euro in 2019, the share in the GDP would in fact reduce from 1.16 to 1.07 percent. While there's wide agreement that the NATO target of two percent would be spending money in search of application given the disparity between German economic power and security commitments, he suggested aiming for 1.2 might be a good idea in light of the world looking as it does.

 

Defense Minister Ursula von der Leyen was ready for this and boldly announced that she was going for a total of 130 billion Euro in procurement until 2030, which would amount to an average of nine billion per year; for reference, current plans until 2019 foresee five billion per. The grand structural overheads for systems would be completely abandoned in favor of the novel idea of procuring according to the needs of the force, though some numbers are still being mentioned.

 

Notably, for the Panzergrenadier battalions to be fully equipped again like their Panzer brothers, in addition to the 350 Pumas on order 200 Marders are to be upgraded again and stay in service until 2025, a decision for new acquisitions to be made then (everybody got really curious when a three-star repeated the exact same phrase after being asked if this would mean more Pumas; I suppose they don't want to make that call ten years out). We'll have a Rheinmetall representative tell us about proposed upgrades for both Leopard and Marder in a couple weeks, which was in fact the first I ever heard about the latter when we made the appointment some time ago.

 

There has of course been debate about increasing Bundeswehr strength somewhat again for some time now, and the MoD intends to present a new model in March. The grapevine says it will not reach 200,000 though, which is just realistic since even now actual strength is only 177,000 rather than the 185,000 called for. Obviously the acquisition plans are merely a nice intention at this point, too, and even if they're passed with no major cuts this term, there's a lot of time until 2030; but political conditions are currently uniquely advantageous, with even public opinion majority support for increasing the defense budget and troop strength.

[JasonJ]

German economy seems to have picked up some decent growth in 2015. If maintained, a small boost to the defense budget should be easy to do.

[Chris Werb]

They won't be reconditioning any of these anytime soon.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2612347/Where-tanks-die-The-German-graveyard-dismantled-15-000-armoured-vehicles-Europe-countries-strip-military.html

[urbanoid]

'Marder tank'

'Marder light tank'

'Gepard anti-aircraft cannon tank'

'Gepard tank'

'Gepard anti-aircraft tank'

 

[Corinthian]

Yay! More AFVs for the future Middle East Overlords in New Levant aka Germany, just in time for the war against the weakened Crusader states of Yurrup.

 

hehehe

[BansheeOne]

There's a list out contrasting the numbers for major weapons system fixed in 2012 with the requirements projected until 2030 now. Again, the latter is no longer intended to be set in stone, but may change as requirements do.

 

MBTs: old - 225; new - 320 Leopard 2

 

IFVs: old - 350; new - 342 Puma + 196 (Marder as an option)

 

APCs: old - 272 Boxer, 898 Fuchs; new - 1,300 total, distribution not yet determined

 

Fennek: old - 217; new - 248, including 154 scout cars, 70 JFST, 24 engineer recon

 

SPHs: old - 89, new - 101 PzH 2000

 

MLRS: old - 38; new 38 MARS (still none for inactive units)

 

Most of the Luftwaffe and Marine equipment stays the same, though I will make a separate post on the CH-53G follow-on in the dedicated thread. Naval helicopters are increased from 30 to 36, half of which the MH 90 Sea Lion for transport and a Sea Lynx follow-on respectively. MANTIS C-RAM is cut from four to two units "with respect to Initiative Close/Immediate Area Protection Bundeswehr" (which I guess is the new buzzword covering SysFla).

Edited January 30, 2016 by BansheeOne

[Gregory]

So basically they are adding equipment for a mechanized division (1 arm + 2 mech brigades), except no artillery. And this is by 2030?

[BansheeOne]

No, merely filling the existing structure with equipment. Currently units are supposed to have only about 70 percent, on the idea that they won't all deploy at the same time and thus stuff can be shuffled around to those that do, AKA "dynamic availability management".

 

The document says "to be realized until 2030", but also stresses that numbers reflect the current state of planning which will have to be adapted to future changes of mission requirements. As far as it's only about keeping/upgrading old stuff that was to be phased out, obviously that won't take until 2030, but in the case of the Marders it was stated that they would be upgraded to stay until 2025, then to be replaced by something else; there are also various pre-existing/envisioned procurement programs like MKS 180/F 126, the CH-53 and Sea Lynx follow-ons which will only commence in the next decade, so it's a bit more encompassing.

[Gregory]

No, merely filling the existing structure with equipment. Currently units are supposed to have only about 70 percent, on the idea that they won't all deploy at the same time and thus stuff can be shuffled around to those that do, AKA "dynamic availability management".

 

[Simon Tan]

Mutti....is in denial.

[BansheeOne]

There has of course been debate about increasing Bundeswehr strength somewhat again for some time now, and the MoD intends to present a new model in March. The grapevine says it will not reach 200,000 though, which is just realistic since even now actual strength is only 177,000 rather than the 185,000 called for. Obviously the acquisition plans are merely a nice intention at this point, too, and even if they're passed with no major cuts this term, there's a lot of time until 2030; but political conditions are currently uniquely advantageous, with even public opinion majority support for increasing the defense budget and troop strength.

 

Reports that there is to be an increase by 7,000 (plus 3,000 civilian) posts in a first step, increasing to 15,000 in a second. It's all very vague as of now, with no mention of target dates, how the additional troops are to be recruited, which fields are to be strengthened, and whether this is to be an increase over the current actual or authorized numbers; the reports talk of more budgeted posts, which indicates the latter. That would actually mean a target strength of 200,000, which is rather ambitious in light of current recruitment and demographics. Maybe they are finally going to open service to EU citizens, or else are expecting a surge in patriotism ... I suppose the plans will be officially presented next week, which is the last parliamentary session week before the Easter break.

[Simon Tan]

OstBattalion and FreiwilligeHelfers.

[BansheeOne]

The defense budget is to rise from 34.3 billion Euro this year to 39.2 billion in 2020. No information of the four-year total, but reportedly additional expenditures of 30 billion in the next national budgets are to mostly benefit defense and labor. The Bundeswehrverband, the soldier "union", had earlier demanded a total of 18.5 billion extra until 2020, which is probably a bit hopeful; then again, with Defense Minister von der Leyen's suggestion of 130 billion until 2030 (which might not all be in the defense budget proper), who knows.

[cbo]

 

There has of course been debate about increasing Bundeswehr strength somewhat again for some time now, and the MoD intends to present a new model in March. The grapevine says it will not reach 200,000 though, which is just realistic since even now actual strength is only 177,000 rather than the 185,000 called for. Obviously the acquisition plans are merely a nice intention at this point, too, and even if they're passed with no major cuts this term, there's a lot of time until 2030; but political conditions are currently uniquely advantageous, with even public opinion majority support for increasing the defense budget and troop strength.

 

Reports that there is to be an increase by 7,000 (plus 3,000 civilian) posts in a first step, increasing to 15,000 in a second. It's all very vague as of now, with no mention of target dates, how the additional troops are to be recruited, which fields are to be strengthened, and whether this is to be an increase over the current actual or authorized numbers; the reports talk of more budgeted posts, which indicates the latter. That would actually mean a target strength of 200,000, which is rather ambitious in light of current recruitment and demographics. Maybe they are finally going to open service to EU citizens, or else are expecting a surge in patriotism ... I suppose the plans will be officially presented next week, which is the last parliamentary session week before the Easter break.

 

 

 

Nah, the Syrian refugees will be the 21st century Beutegermaner:

 

 

[bojan]

 

Nah, the Syrian refugees will be the 21st century BeuteErzatzgermaner:

 

 

 

Fixed.