German Armed Forces reduced to 150 000?

[Chris Werb]

Lastdingo, I agree with you on all above points. I really enjoy your blog by the way.

[Dark_Falcon]

 

 

 

 

The best news is that the money shredding MEADS/TLVS isn't budgeted any more. They kept burning billions in there.

Same with (C )SAR helicopters. We've got enough gold plated helicopters of little use in defence.

We don't need national SigInt when allied in NATO and EU and not frontier country. MKS180 ships are utter nonsense and just another shipyard subsidy and navy toy project. No G36 rifles budgeted may turn out to be an embarrassment to the MoD von der Leyen.

 

 

/edited to remove typos

 

 

When I saw this photo, immediately thought of you. The caption reads: "'Give it some water and 800mg Ibuprofen, it will be ok' #Tigre #helicopter #Afghanistan"

 

[Panzermann]

But that is a french HAP.

[lastdingo]

I have a rather big attack helicopter survivability blog post in the pipeline, to be published in a few days.

 

Anecdotes of individual aircraft don't influence me much, though. Shit happens. The smallest anecdote that's in the draft is the Karbala debacle.

[Dark_Falcon]

I have a rather big attack helicopter survivability blog post in the pipeline, to be published in a few days.

 

Anecdotes of individual aircraft don't influence me much, though. Shit happens. The smallest anecdote that's in the draft is the Karbala debacle.

 

Not really meant to influence you, just to amuse you a little.

Edited June 26, 2017 by Dark_Falcon

[Stuart Galbraith]

 

Thought this was interesting, not least the photo of the newly formed West German navy using a Type 23 U boat.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-40172317

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08tc1gv

 

That was news to me. Amazing that they managed to recommission them after a decade underwater. Unfortunately the one in the film sank in 1966 off Dogger bank taking 19 of her 20 crew with her

 

 

Got a feeling the French had a few as well IIRC?

 

They seem to have been good boats, if a little short on weaponry.

[Panzermann]

in the last sitting of this Bundestag's budget commision a few items finally passed before elections in autumn:

 

• digital radio MoTaKo only 50 radios for 81 million, vehicle integration extra, but they replace like half a dozen individual radios
• Heron 1 lease extended
• DM11 cartridges for Leo2 (programmable HE)
• integration of turret independent secondary weapon (40mm grenade launcher near the rear ramp) on Puma IFV
• ten additional engines for A400M
• Logistik ZEBEL (central federal owned warehousing)

 

Heron TP seems to be sacrificed on the altar of the SPD's election campaign.

[lastdingo]

Didn't they have 120 mm DM11 already? Are those additional rounds?

Feels like that round was in service for years already.

[Chris Werb]

The rear 40mm AGL on Puma was news to me.

[Panzermann]

Didn't they have 120 mm DM11 already? Are those additional rounds?

Feels like that round was in service for years already.

 

Yes it is an increase in stocks.

[Panzermann]

The rear 40mm AGL on Puma was news to me.

 

The rear and side fiting launcher has been on the Puma from the beginning, but it was still changing adn pushed back to be installed later. For some time it used the 76 mm smoke grenades. Now changed for the 40 mm variety.

 

see for example this older photo:

 

[methos]

It's a combination of 76 mm and 40 mm grenades. The 76 mm barrels were never planned to be used for smoke grenades, but either non-lethal grenades for riot control or fragmenting grenades against infantry. The industry proposed fitting an additional ring of 24 barrels for 40 mm (low or medium velocity) grenades around them. Apparently this allows to utilize a wider range of ammo and increases total range (effective range now is up to 700 meters), but is a more complex and more expensive system.

 

The initial design had very primitive optics (one camera fixed to the launcher):

 

The later design has more advanced optics (afaik thermal imager + camera + LRF) and apparently an electric motor (or is it gas-operated?) to rotate the ring of 40 mm barrels (there is only one exit hole):

 

[Panzermann]

For this application metalstorm would make sense to have a stack of grenadeds in the barrels, but yet another type of ammunition on the vehicle would complicate things.

[lastdingo]

It should be possible to use the flamethrower principle to project liquid smoke agents in a sweeping motion to 50 m distance...their smoke would not last as long, of course.

You won't get smoke projection more surface area-efficient, though.

[Panzermann]

a Hauptmann d.R., w. vents her opinion about von der Leyen: https://www.welt.de/debatte/kommentare/article166336753/Frau-Merkel-geben-Sie-der-Bundeswehr-ihre-Wuerde-zurueck.html

 

She says that vdL has destroyed the Bundeswehr's honourableness with suspecting all soldiers of being bad eggs and attesting bad leadership to further her own career. Well for me vdL had disqualified herself already, when she wanted to put "STOPP" (sic! two P) signs into the WWW. To protect the children!

 

 

Nice move to let a female OF-2 write this opinion piece.

[Panzermann]

BAAInBw signed a contract for 2272 MAN HX2 all terrain lorries to be delivered from 2018 to 21 to replace the old MAN Kat.I lorries from the seventies and eighties.

http://strategie-technik.blogspot.de/2017/07/nochfolge-rollt-hx2-familie-wird-neue.html


Rheinmetall to modernize the Bundeswehr’s fleet of logistic vehicles
Major order worth around €900 million for over 2,200 new trucks (RMMV press release)

 

 

 

In my experience the old MAN Kat.I are still good and will last forever. Any takers for the used ones in the east maybe?

[carrierlost]

In my experience the old MAN Kat.I are still good and will last forever. Any takers for the used ones in the east maybe?

Probably. Estonia has over 100 MANs in service, probably others have it as well.

[Chris Werb]

That grenade launcher is very interesting - with those optics it looks like it costs a pretty penny too. What is its concept of employment?

[2805662]

Random one - any feedback on how Boxer is holding up?

[methos]

Random one - any feedback on how Boxer is holding up?

 

The Boxer has been praised quite a bit after its first operations in Afghanistan, but these praises obviously are meant in comparison with its predecessors (i.e. Fuchs and M113). In an article written by a German officer in 2011, the toilet, the cooking device, the mobility and the night vision systems were mentioned as positive aspects. The Boxer took part in "offensive operations" and did well, but it is not reported wether it was hit or fired it's gun.

[Dark_Falcon]

I came across a press release PDF from Rheinmetall that details the Boxer's upgrade to A2 status, especially for the Command vehicles:

 

 

The upgrade of the chassis to A2 design status includes the

“Fit-for” driver visualization system installation kit, modification of the exhaust gas and cooling

air flow, repositioning of the towing cable and the driver’s station, and covering of the rear spotlights. In addition, labelling in conformity with the Bundeswehr’s Automatic Identification Technology (AIT) is being introduced. Furthermore, requirements generated by the safety workshop are being implemented, including an ABS function check and monitoring of the differential lock.

Modification of the command vehicle module to A2 design status encompasses installation of a fire suppression system; AIT labelling; a remotely controlled FLW200 weapon station that can be operated from multiple locations in the vehicle;

common displays for the vehicle commander and section leader; transmission of the video signal from the driver visualization system to the commander’s station; as well as alteration of the external storage capacity, antenna configuration and loading. Additional components will be integrated into the vehicle’s IT suite, including DVI, LAN, Y adapter cables and a DC/DC transformer. The upgraded vehicles will also be equipped with a voice over IP/ VoIP capability.

 

The VoIP capability is a question mark for me but that's just because my VoIP experiences at work have been so bad. The military grade VoIP will probably work better than the business-grade systems I've used,

[2805662]

 

Random one - any feedback on how Boxer is holding up?

The Boxer has been praised quite a bit after its first operations in Afghanistan, but these praises obviously are meant in comparison with its predecessors (i.e. Fuchs and M113). In an article written by a German officer in 2011, the toilet, the cooking device, the mobility and the night vision systems were mentioned as positive aspects. The Boxer took part in "offensive operations" and did well, but it is not reported wether it was hit or fired it's gun.

Thanks. While the other crew comforts are important (especially to the crew!), it's interesting that mobility is mentioned. No IED hits?

[Panzermann]

 

 

Random one - any feedback on how Boxer is holding up?

The Boxer has been praised quite a bit after its first operations in Afghanistan, but these praises obviously are meant in comparison with its predecessors (i.e. Fuchs and M113). In an article written by a German officer in 2011, the toilet, the cooking device, the mobility and the night vision systems were mentioned as positive aspects. The Boxer took part in "offensive operations" and did well, but it is not reported wether it was hit or fired it's gun.

Thanks. While the other crew comforts are important (especially to the crew!), it's interesting that mobility is mentioned. No IED hits?

 

 

So far no IED hits.

 

the mobility with its power to weith ratio is much better than the old Fuchs got slapped on additional armour and equipment for AFG and they are also just old. The M113, well, the M113 A2 G versions are much improved, but still weak and bad cross country. Not surprisingly brand new vehicles with much more HP are better.

 

The San-Fuchs has a horrible arrangement on the insides. The Boxer is much better in this regard. More space, better layout.

 

 

The biggest complained I have heard is that it is as big as a barn. Cannot do much about that to keep the internal volume and mine protection.

Edited July 11, 2017 by Panzermann

[2805662]

Thanks Panzermann. It's certainly not little!

 

Two follow up questions:

Is Boxer in Mali?

Is SOTAS IP used for the communications harness in the Bundeswehr Boxers?

[methos]

Didn't they have 120 mm DM11 already? Are those additional rounds?

Feels like that round was in service for years already.

 

First batch of 2,500 rounds was purchased in 2013, now two further batches (each 2,500) have been ordered.