Movies

[Stuart Galbraith]

25 minutes ago, Yama said:

Sharks would have needed salt water, and Rome is not a coastal city...(unless they were bull sharks, which are not found on Mediterranean). Also, keeping a large shark alive in captivity and transport is very challenging even with todays technology. Crocodiles would have made more sense, but maybe they were not exotic enough for Scott.

Any way, the ship battle, like almost all battles and fight scenes in the movie, was disappointing. It was very uninspired, it had no particular story, and seemed to be over almost immediately.

I've felt that way about every recent Ridley Scott film. I've not seen one I've enjoyed since Kingdom of Heaven, which yes was a mess historically, but an entertaining and thought provoking one.

[Yama]

I don't want to say Scott is an overrated director, as he does have some genuine classics on his resume, but in his overall filmography bad ones outnumber the good. 

I didn't much like KoH (haven't seen directors cut yet though), as I thought it had weak dialogue and one-dimensional characters. But it did have some awesome looking scenes. But Prometheus, Covenant, G2? Meh...well I did like Martian, so there's that at least. Haven't seen Last Duel yet.

[Stuart Galbraith]

Oh, he did Martian? I did like that. But then it was a novel. He hasn't had a good relationship  with scriptwriters al, the way back to Bladerunner, and I wonder if that's a clue.

[Ivanhoe]

1 hour ago, Yama said:

I don't want to say Scott is an overrated director, as he does have some genuine classics on his resume, but in his overall filmography bad ones outnumber the good. 

I didn't much like KoH (haven't seen directors cut yet though), as I thought it had weak dialogue and one-dimensional characters. But it did have some awesome looking scenes. But Prometheus, Covenant, G2? Meh...well I did like Martian, so there's that at least. Haven't seen Last Duel yet.

I got about halfway through Last Duel and kinda lost interest. Same old RS routine; breathtaking visuals, characters meh, storyline lacking.

[Ssnake]

Ridley Scott's problem is that he cannot recognize a great script from a terrible one. If he gets handed a great script, he'll probably make an instant classic.

If he's to work with a steaming pile of plot holes, he'll deliver the most polished turd you'll ever see.

I think he really could be one of the top five directors of all time, were he only more lucky with his scripts, or if he didn't suffer from that particular artistic blind spot.

[Stuart Galbraith]

 

He clearly warrants the great tab for movies like The Duellists, Bladerunner, or Thelma and Louise. Even Blackhawk down is I think an excellent war film, and has a lot to say, particularly looking back on the subsequent war on terror.

Where I think some of the problem comes from, he primarily thinks visually. He came from the world of doing television advertisments (the most famous being the Apple Macintosh '1984' advert', where you think visually and send a message (even an opaque one) far more in visual and less in narrative terms. The one that really made his name in Britain is the Hovis advert, which is attention to detail visually, but again, far more a visual rather than narrative.

 

You can perhaps see the problem in the 1984 advert. 1984 wont be like 1984. Its meaningless. We dont even see the computer. Scott admitted himself he made the advert without even knowing what the hell he was selling. But, it created brand awareness, which was all that mattered to Apple at the time.

For some films, like Alien, Bladerunner or Blackhawk down, this works fine. For some others, less fine, usually  when he is trying to sell a complex message that cant be sold in simple exposition, which makes Bladerunners's success somewhat baffling.

I think it telling that his greatest successes are usually adapted from novels which has complex themes distilled into visuals. PKD when shown the initial special effects rushes for Bladerunner said they had captured the near exact visuals he had in his head when he was writing Do Androids dream of electric sheep, and that I think is telling. Scott approaches from a visual end first, then engages the narrative end. When he has a great scriptwriter, it works fine. When its someone that deserves a kick up the bum, he doesnt seem to notice or care until he films it.

I still love his work, but primarily its his early work. His later stuff is just too damn comercial to be compelling.

 

[TrustMe]

I like him a lot but he's in his late 80's so in need of retiring.

[Stuart Galbraith]

It may be as simple as that actually.

[Ivanhoe]

Scott's portfolio is marred by his counterfactual wokeness as much as other flaws. KoH was tragic; fantastic visuals, engaging historical background, fouled by the predictable anti-western narrative. I could only tolerate T&L rather briefly, IMHO it is Porky's for angry neurotic lesbians.

Amusingly, at least to me, is that film critics pass on Black Rain as boring, yet I put it next to Blade Runner as one of Scott's top 5.

[Stuart Galbraith]

No, he certainly isnt woke. He is from a working class background, and his (and his brother Tony) ambition was to be Commando's, which was why he picked up Blackhawk Down. Film school was to be a second career. I think the worst you can say about him is that he is often very commercial, which considering Bladerunner was a flow when it released (a hard flop actually), I can understand him trying to make things people want to watch. KOH was a flop too, but I think that was made in the post Gladiator moment when he felt he could do anything.

I too like Black Rain, but its worth remembering it too provoked criticism as being racist, because it was made at a time in  the late 80's and early 90's when Americans were convinced Japan was going to be the next threat. Rising Sun, the Wesley Snipes and Sean Connery film was accused of the same thing. Which I suppose is the downside of trying to make topical stuff people are interested in, there is always going to be someone that says its woke or racist.

 

 

[Ivanhoe]

 

[Stuart Galbraith]

If thats supposed to be some kind of authority on film making, im not seeing it.

 

[Ssnake]

1 hour ago, Ivanhoe said:

Amusingly, at least to me, is that film critics pass on Black Rain as boring, yet I put it next to Blade Runner as one of Scott's top 5.

Yes, Black Rain was fantastic. Not the least thanks to a then-unknown new music composer who ran by the name of Hans Zimmer.

[Ssnake]

1 hour ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

I too like Black Rain, but its worth remembering it too provoked criticism as being racist,

Yeah, by self-proclaimed white knights. In Japan, it was received very well, last I heard.

[Ivanhoe]

1 hour ago, Ssnake said:

Yes, Black Rain was fantastic. Not the least thanks to a then-unknown new music composer who ran by the name of Hans Zimmer.

Sorry, the only Hans worth mentioning in the movie thread is Hans Gruber.

[R011]

3 hours ago, Ivanhoe said:

Sorry, the only Hans worth mentioning in the movie thread is Hans Gruber.

He's an asshole.  Even his brother said so.

[Stargrunt6]

1 hour ago, R011 said:

He's an asshole.  Even his brother said so.

That movie made me like hard boiled eggs btw lol

[Stuart Galbraith]

I was amazed to learn that was actually Alan Rickmans first film. He made a career out of playing villians for years on the back of that.

[Yama]

19 hours ago, Ivanhoe said:

Scott's portfolio is marred by his counterfactual wokeness as much as other flaws. KoH was tragic; fantastic visuals, engaging historical background, fouled by the predictable anti-western narrative.

I don't think it was 'woke' or 'anti-western', but anti-religion message was laid down bit too thick even for my tastes. Made worse by all the characters except Saladin and Baldwin being one-dimensional as heck.

Edited December 11, 2024 by Yama

[Stuart Galbraith]

Im given to understand that the extended cut gives quite a lot more to Eva Green's Queen Sybilla. Which is no surprise, because she is a hell of an actress.

Its interesting to note how many of Scotts films end up with extended cuts to put them right.

 

[Soren Ras]

2 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

Im given to understand that the extended cut gives quite a lot more to Eva Green's Queen Sybilla. Which is no surprise, because she is a hell of an actress.

Its interesting to note how many of Scotts films end up with extended cuts to put them right.

 

Kingdom of Heaven extended version is a greatly improved movie. Not a masterpiece, but it does flesh our several of the cardboard characters of the original version, and IMO it has a better, more engaging flow. To me it went from a bad movie with great visuals to a better than average Ridley Scott movie with great visuals.

Black Rain was superb.

 

--

Soren

 

[sunday]

2 hours ago, Yama said:

I don't think it was 'woke' or 'anti-western', but anti-religion message was laid down bit too thick even for my tastes. Made worse by all the characters except Saladin and Baldwin being one-dimensional as heck.

That scene of the queen killing her son after he was diagnosed with leprosy did the movie for me.

[Stuart Galbraith]

15 minutes ago, Soren Ras said:

Kingdom of Heaven extended version is a greatly improved movie. Not a masterpiece, but it does flesh our several of the cardboard characters of the original version, and IMO it has a better, more engaging flow. To me it went from a bad movie with great visuals to a better than average Ridley Scott movie with great visuals.

Black Rain was superb.

 

--

Soren

 

Oh I love Black Rain too, make no bones about it. I found it an interesting counterpoint to Bladerunner. In Bladerunner he is showing the city of the future, and in Black Rain, he is showing its already here, mainly because they too were listening to Syd Mead.  I gather the guy who plays the gangster he is supposed to hand over was a famous Japanese comedian whom was playing against type, and subsequently passed away. He was excellent in it, but then there wasnt a bad performance in that film.

OK, Ill have to see KOH extended then. I always loved the look of the damn thing, the way it was cut was inexcusable.

[Stuart Galbraith]

15 minutes ago, sunday said:

That scene of the queen killing her son after he was diagnosed with leprosy did the movie for me.

Its the counterpoint to Balian's murder of his brother. The point obviously is, there is no Kingdom of Heaven for either of them for what they have done, as its subsequently proved because they both have to leave Jerusalem. Its almost a repeat of Adam and Eve being thrown out of Gods Kingdom.

Ok, hokey it might be, but he is on very similar ground to Ken Russell here in 'The Devils'. At the end of the film, Madelaine walks away from the ruined walls and heads on spikes to the green fields and the blue sky beyond (Through mud, through blood to the Green fields beyond even).

The point is obvious, you can either remain here, wedded to religious dogma, or get away and find your own heaven. You dont have to agree with the sentiment, to find that the point is eloquently made. Rather more so in Ken Russells case, but I can see the echo of it here with what Scott was trying to do also.

[Stuart Galbraith]

Why Where Eagles Dare is a Christmas film.

https://x.com/trevorbaxendale/status/1866809572259779032?t=h76szctVaBwDqrskCGLXag&s=19

So now you can watch it back to back with Die Hard with a clear conscience.