Movies

[TrustMe]

13 minutes ago, Stargrunt6 said:

The Honored Matres. Homicidal Bene Gesserit off shoot that use sex to make men their slaves. You figured Herbert wasn't happily married. If he knew about Only Fans, he'd know women don't take much to make men their slaves.

 

LOL

 

14 minutes ago, Stargrunt6 said:

Nope, they debuted in Messiah woth Scytale.

You're right, my mistake.

[Ssnake]

3 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

But PK Dick was consuming large amounts of drugs, and it didn't seem to affect his work I  any way.

Surely you're jesting!

First of all, he was a consumer of amphetamines (less destructive than meth), primarily to boost his output. And if you check how many stories and novels he wrote during his middle career, there is your hint that he was on speed right away.

Mid and end-career books are ripe with a pervasive atmosphere of paranoia. Guess what's a side effect of amphetamine consumption. Likewise, he fell off the productivity cliff which can also be easily ascribed to the effects of prolonged and intense consumption of the stuff.

Ironically, reflecting on someone who wrote The Man in the High Castle, this mirrors the phases of Hitler's drug career.

[Ssnake]

1 hour ago, Ivanhoe said:

Drugs probably brought PKD closer to reality, not further. 

For a while maybe, then not so much.

[Ivanhoe]

Speaking of which, a recent research piece came out showing association between long-term heavy THC use and psychosis.

Makes me wonder how many in the creative arts arena are going to have problems in later life.

[Stuart Galbraith]

8 hours ago, Ssnake said:

Surely you're jesting!

First of all, he was a consumer of amphetamines (less destructive than meth), primarily to boost his output. And if you check how many stories and novels he wrote during his middle career, there is your hint that he was on speed right away.

Mid and end-career books are ripe with a pervasive atmosphere of paranoia. Guess what's a side effect of amphetamine consumption. Likewise, he fell off the productivity cliff which can also be easily ascribed to the effects of prolonged and intense consumption of the stuff.

Ironically, reflecting on someone who wrote The Man in the High Castle, this mirrors the phases of Hitler's drug career.

I should have expressed that clearer. I didnt mean it affected his work in a negative way.

Yes, they are obviously twisted out of shape because of another worldy perspective by being off his head on drugs. But that doesnt make them unreadable, arguably its at least part of the strength of his writing. A scanner darkly is a clear example of this. That clearly took an altered state, or an inate familiarity with it, to write something like that.

I was interested reading The Man in the High Castle on his perspective on the difference between the Nazi and Japanese regimes. The Japanese would probably have turned into an Empire much like the European ones, exploitative as all Empires are, but for the most part benigh and happy to enjoy its preeminent position. The Nazi's by contrast would have carried on looking for people that were not them and keep killing, because Nazi's gonna Nazi. Id never considered that perspective before, and the more I think about it, the more I think he was probably right. Not only was that first rate research on his part, I think it must have been his ability to disengage through drugs that helped him to see it.

[Ssnake]

59 minutes ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

I didnt mean it affected his work in a negative way.

We will never know the quality of books he would have written without substance abuse - but I will concede that what he wrote was very good. Despite or because of being under the influence - who could say?

[Stuart Galbraith]

21 minutes ago, Ssnake said:

We will never know the quality of books he would have written without substance abuse - but I will concede that what he wrote was very good. Despite or because of being under the influence - who could say?

Im reminded of Samuel Taylor Coleridge whom wrote poem 'Kubla Khan' whilst, IIRC, whilst asleep in a stupour after taking opium. Which would have worked out wonderfully, if the infamous 'Man from Porlock' hadnt come knocking and kept Coleridge occupied, before he could get the rest of the thing down on paper.

Or alternatively, if you are Douglas Adams, it was an infinitely prolonged time traveller trying to change the future course of history.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kubla_Khan

There is a lot in Dick's work I think indicates a different perspective from other writers. I think he would probably have been a capable, if middle of the road science fiction writer, had he never taken drugs. I think there is a lot of evidence, probably uncomfortable evidence, that suggets drugs certainly does unlock a lot of creativity in the human mind, whether its Music (Looking at you Sid Barrett, Jimi Hendrix and Eric Clapton) Science Fiction or perhaps even theatre. I dont think someone whom came up with the Rite of Spring wasnt indulging heavily in something from the orient.

I think for me, the thing I find most interesting, is that he doesnt believe in fixed history. In MITHC, he talks about 'here is the lighter in Roosevelts jacket the day he was assassinated. Or was it this one?'. His view is that history is purely down to perspective, there was no inherent fixedness to it. And that, to me, was an idea that is astonishing modern, and very current in Social media. Hitler was a Socialist, Churchill was a fascist, etc etc etc.

I think you can see simlar hints to that end in what little ive read of JG Ballards work, that there is no truth, just alternative perspective. And Ballard was a large consumer of drugs at one time as well, IIRC.

 

Its surprising perhaps how little this seems to happen in the movie industry these days Ok, you get actors heavily into drugs, but few directors or scriptwriters are incredibly rare. Or maybe, we just dont know about them.

 

 

[Soren Ras]

If your chosen medium is one you can perform on your own in the solitude of your home, it is probably more compatible with use of recreational stimuli. Hence, why writers are prone to fall into that particular hole.

A movie director pretty much needs to work his or her craft in front of a lot of people all the time and being stoned out of your gourd while working is likely less likely to be successful, especially since the job is basically herding cats. Not to say that amphetamines and other stimulants that allow you to work long hours are not going to be used, merely that there is probably a limit on which drugs are going to be useful.  If funny mushrooms give your 3 hours of productive time followed by 36 hours of being wasted, that might be a good deal to a writer, but not a director.

I suspect screenwriters are like other writers in this regard (except when they need to write in teams).

 

 

[TrustMe]

5 hours ago, Ivanhoe said:

...Speaking of which, a recent research piece came out showing association between long-term heavy THC use and psychosis...

 

 

It's true i've seen this myself.

[Stuart Galbraith]

15 minutes ago, Soren Ras said:

If your chosen medium is one you can perform on your own in the solitude of your home, it is probably more compatible with use of recreational stimuli. Hence, why writers are prone to fall into that particular hole.

A movie director pretty much needs to work his or her craft in front of a lot of people all the time and being stoned out of your gourd while working is likely less likely to be successful, especially since the job is basically herding cats. Not to say that amphetamines and other stimulants that allow you to work long hours are not going to be used, merely that there is probably a limit on which drugs are going to be useful.  If funny mushrooms give your 3 hours of productive time followed by 36 hours of being wasted, that might be a good deal to a writer, but not a director.

I suspect screenwriters are like other writers in this regard (except when they need to write in teams).

 

 

Yes, its probably more use to people like Cinematographers or Scriptwriters than directors.

I suppose alcohol is well reknowned by directors. I gather Sam Peckinpah directed most of his later movies whilst largely pissed. Tend to burn out quickly of course.

[Ssnake]

Not sure if Sid Barrett, diagnosed with schizophrenia and hospitalized for much of his life, is a poster child of drug-induced creativity. IMO, the greatest albums Pink Floyd made were after Barrett had no more (direct) influence on their music.

[Stuart Galbraith]

Oh he was very creative. You only have to look at their early work, the LSD clearly unlocked something. Then he took much acid, and locked it up again. Same thing happened to one of the founder members of Fleetwood Mac iirc.

Perhaps, but you can still hear a clear influence of his early work, right up to the wall album. To a lesser extent, even The Division Bell. Ironically I think most of his other albums were about him in some fashion. There was a hell of a lot of guilt they dumped him after he blew his mind, I don't think they ever truly got over it.

[Yama]

11 hours ago, TrustMe said:

It's true i've seen this myself.

Yep rather obvious 'revelation'. One guy told me he used to smoke so much weed, he would start hearing voices shouting his name, and sometimes wake up paralyzed in middle of the night, bedroom full of cultists or demons.

[Ivanhoe]

1 hour ago, Yama said:

Yep rather obvious 'revelation'. One guy told me he used to smoke so much weed, he would start hearing voices shouting his name, and sometimes wake up paralyzed in middle of the night, bedroom full of cultists or demons.

In the US, you may be surprised at how many MDs and psych practitioners believe weed is harmless.

[Ssnake]

5 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

You only have to look at their early work, the LSD clearly unlocked something. Then he took much acid, and locked it up again.

 

... I think most of [Pink Floyd's] other albums were about [Sid Barrett] in some fashion. There was a hell of a lot of guilt they dumped him after he blew his mind, I don't think they ever truly got over it.

Maybe it was the LSD that "unlocked" the schizophrenia in the first place. Maybe he took it to combat the (then undiagnosed) schizophrenia symptoms. We won't know.

That the rest of the band was guilt tripping after his hospitalization is undisputed, but I'd consider that an indirect indirect influence on the creative process. It does not convince me that substance abuse is a valid path to enhanced creativity. At the very least I guess we agree that it's one hell of a risk to take, and that it doesn't work for even a substantial minority of consumers, let alone everybody.

 

Also, I don't think that dumping him is an objective description of a situation where a commercial enterprise - a professional music band is one - reorganized to keep working after the band leader was hospitalized. It's not like the clinic would release him for training sessions, trips to the recording studio, or to go on tour ... or that he wrote useful material while being locked up.

[R011]

4 hours ago, Ivanhoe said:

In the US, you may be surprised at how many MDs and psych practitioners believe weed is harmless.

Like anything, dosage makes the poison.

[Ivanhoe]

RUMINT is that a sequel to District 9 in in development.

[Yama]

4 hours ago, R011 said:

Like anything, dosage makes the poison.

The guy said that at the time he smoked "really much"; also apparently some modern cultivars have high concentrations of THC, it's not Daddy's hippie years stuff anymore.

[Stuart Galbraith]

6 hours ago, Ssnake said:

Maybe it was the LSD that "unlocked" the schizophrenia in the first place. Maybe he took it to combat the (then undiagnosed) schizophrenia symptoms. We won't know.

That the rest of the band was guilt tripping after his hospitalization is undisputed, but I'd consider that an indirect indirect influence on the creative process. It does not convince me that substance abuse is a valid path to enhanced creativity. At the very least I guess we agree that it's one hell of a risk to take, and that it doesn't work for even a substantial minority of consumers, let alone everybody.

 

Also, I don't think that dumping him is an objective description of a situation where a commercial enterprise - a professional music band is one - reorganized to keep working after the band leader was hospitalized. It's not like the clinic would release him for training sessions, trips to the recording studio, or to go on tour ... or that he wrote useful material while being locked up.

Of course it was, and clearly reduced the careers of many of the users by a decade or two, occasionally even took their lives. At the same time its an individuals right to make that choice (subject to national laws natch). That most artists today are the aware of the dangers of LSD means most dont take it anymore. But back then, when they were the test pilots (and you had Timothy Leary pushing the stuff as if it was another unfound chapter of the bible), then its entirely understandable they did use it, to try to enhance their creativity. The 60s, and to a lesser extent the 70's, were all about searching for truth. And that was the case whether it was in music, or literature. Many of the greats in both industries at least experimented with drugs, to greater or lesser extents for precisely this reason.

And Art too. One can look at Andy Warhols art and see that it must have been influenced by drugs. Supposedly he only took speed, but I think most likely he experimented with LSD as well at some point.

Looked at another way, back in the 60's and 70's we had the Rolling Stones, The Beatles, The Doors, Fleetwood Mac, Pink Floyd, Jefferson Airplane, Bob Dylan, Jimi Hendrix, Cream,David Bowie, Credence Clearwater revival,The Grateful Dead, The Doors, The Eagles, Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, Thin Lizzy, The Kinks... Granted they didnt all experiment with LSD, some of them just did weed, but they were all indulging in altered states to at least some extent. And whilst it undoubtedly shortened their working lives in some  cases, its fairly clear it also contributed to some of the greatest hits. I defy anyone not to listen to the The Beatles and not concluded they were shitfaced on LSD at some point. I generally dont like the Beatles either, and even I think this is brilliant.

 

Then in the 90's, the kids cleaned up, partly in response to the death of Cobain, and a growing awareness of what the shit did over the long term. And what do we have today? Tailor Swift and Ariana Grande. Im not mocking them you understand. But they seem to me to be distinctly lightweight in material terms,compared to what went before. Truth telling has been replaced by commercial imperative , and doing drugs is bad, Mkay? Even the ones that do drugs, like Miley Cyrus, to me seem to lack the creativity, or even the interest for searching for something more than financial stability.

Im not extolling the use of drugs when i suggest all this.  ive never taken any myself. But it is clear to me, looking at the explosion in creativity in the 1960's and 1970's, the drug counterculture most certainly had something to do with unlocking it. Yes, with all the costs and uncertainties to the individuals that implies.

Re Syd Barrett, if you listen to 'Welcome to the machine', you can clearly hear the Floyds disanfranchisement with the music industry, that they felt they were on a conveyor belt. Ditching Barrett was clearly part of that commercial imperative. Not that Barrett ever held it against them. But I think they regarded themselves as selling out by doing it, and their work, to some extent or another, was continually atoning for that.

Hey, just my view for what its worth.

 

Edited June 14 by Stuart Galbraith

[Stuart Galbraith]

3 hours ago, Ivanhoe said:

RUMINT is that a sequel to District 9 in in development.

Yes, ive heard that too. It probably warrants one. If they set it in Modern South Africa with the disenfranchisement with the ANC, it would clearly have a lot to say.

[TrustMe]

Halfway watching Tenet  https://www.imdb.com/title/tt6723592/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0_tt_6_nm_2_q_tenet. Could someone explain WTF is going on?

[sunday]

Oh, from halfways on you should be able to see what's going on.

[TrustMe]

3 minutes ago, sunday said:

Oh, from halfways on you should be able to see what's going on.

I'll give it another hour then.

[Yama]

3 hours ago, sunday said:

Oh, from halfways on you should be able to see what's going on.

Or not; the plot may be wee bit hard to follow.

[Ivanhoe]