Gennady I. Beregovoy Posted February 9, 2002 Posted February 9, 2002 What are the currently available combat flight sims and how good are they? Any good flight sim without any campaign mode? How realistic are they? It's been awhile since my last flight sim (and that was with a 386sx!!!) and I haven't touched anything new or current yet.
Red Ant Posted February 9, 2002 Posted February 9, 2002 Falcon 4.0 is head and shoulders above the competition! The original version sucked extreme ass, but Falcon has become a whole new sim since then. The latest version, SuperPak2, has completely revamped avionics, better graphics, and most of the improvements of the Realism Patch 5 (more realistic weapons, avionics, AI, etc). Besides, virtually thousands of bugs have been removed since the original version was released. I believe the sim is sold in the US for as little as 20 bucks. Give it a try. A couple of good F4 sites: www. frugalsworld.com www.f4community.com
Ssnake Posted February 9, 2002 Posted February 9, 2002 For WW2 flight simulations, IL-2 Shturmovik is probably King of the Hill. Find more info about flight simulations in general at SimHQ.com. [Edited by Ssnake (09 Feb 2002).]
Archie Pellagio Posted February 9, 2002 Posted February 9, 2002 Weeeeeeell. It depends on which you prefer.For Jet sims, there are the three staples, Flanker, Falcon, and jF18. Flanker 2.5, you might have a very hard time finding the original boxed version with nice chunky manual, but there is a DVD case version now, already shipping with the 2.5 upgrade (saving you a 120mb download). $10usdPros - Almost universally agreed to have the best FM of any sim around, not only by us loser flight simmers, but many real pilots. Great graphics, chance to fly for the "other side", pretty much bug free. The AI is the best in any jetsim - absolutely nothing beats a gunzo with an F-16 of F-15.Flyable is the Su-27, and some BS versions of the Su-33 and MiG-29K Cons - With 2.5 there was a big slug in the frame rate department, you'll need a very powerful system, (and I mean powerful) to run it at decent frame rates. There isn't a dynamic campaign, and the canned one is pretty poxy. Falcon 4.0 - Well often reffered to as the king of flight sims. Finding it with the chunky manual (600 pages ) would be tricky, but it's still avaliable in jewel case versions and in packs. Now the patch confusion is gone, just get the 1.08 patch, and then the Super Pak 2. Pros - Abso-friggin-lutely fabulous dynamic campiagn system, most of the major bugs have been fixed (like the wall of migs). SP2 has redone a few of the 3D models, and the final patch, SP2a will replace the 3d models ofthe hornet, eagle, flanker, tomcat and a few others, the A-10 in this has to be seen to be believed!There are multiple theatres now, the graphics are substantially better, the cockpits are excellent, the realism from the avionics point of view borders on beyond anal retentive but thats what people asked for...Flyable - pretty much everything in the game Basically, you have to get this one. Cons - Kind of ticky to get into, especially when you've got to read about five or six pdf manuals, on top of the shipped one. There are others, but Falcon should b in your collection. Jane's F/A-18 - Great naval sim. The avionics are excellent, and the naval ops side of the game is superb. If you can get it, it is really worth it, a great product, with great community. Also, there's Jane's F-15, the spiritual predessor to F/A-18, I love it, and you can get it really cheap. The graphics are pretty good for a four year old sim. My favourite... Typhoon - A sim-lite, quite nice graphics, haven't played it, but it seems like a nice game. Hornet PSF - aviod at all costs! MiG-alley, a korean war sim, old but fabulous! For propsims... il-2 - Don't talk, just buy. CFS2 - A piece of shit from MS Rowans battle of britain - great sim, now that the BDG have the code out, it is seeing a lot of work done, this is one to watch, highly reccomended. and of the older ilk... European Airwar (EAW) - a true classic, if you find it, buy it no questions asked, hundreds of planes in the air, the atmosphere is great, a true classic, and there's been some real breakthroughs by the community of late, fixing the GeForce bug and a whole lot of things. mods galore. And it'll run on pretty much any system! Jane's WWII Fighters - it's had a rennaisance of late, with the number of skins,3D mods, terrains, sound paks, new FM's to replace thebogus shipped ones, and great graphics, a real winner, and must buy! CFS1 - I kind of enjoyed this one, if you find it, it might be worth a look-see, but there are so many good other ones out there, it might be wiser to pass... SDOE (Fighter Squadron - Screaming demons over Europe) Haven't got it, but it seems to have a very loyal community, good graphics and some really ripper mods out there. It might be worth a mention, buy a good joystick too.The X-45 is great value, at $80us, you get a fully functional HOTAS. If thats too much, go for the Topgun Afterburner.
Archie Pellagio Posted February 9, 2002 Posted February 9, 2002 Originally posted by Stuart Galbraith:Yep, ive just fallen in love with my airacobra. Once killed a fw190 with about 5 shots from the 37mm. Im slowly being convinced the RAF was wrong to get rid of it Five?The AASNMGOD (All american super ninja mega gun of death) only needs on hit (except on the FW - they soak them up - two is necessary)
Mekhazzio Posted February 9, 2002 Posted February 9, 2002 This question has an easy answer, as there are some sims that are just so far beyond the rest as to reduce the others to obscurity. Modern jet: Falcon 4.0Helicopter: Longbow 2WW2: IL-2 Sturmovik As for the P-39's 37mm in IL-2...yeah, usually only needs one HE shell to hit in the body of a fighter to do it in. If you just hit the tip of a horizontal stabilizer, though, it won't bring them down usually. However, there's also AP shells in the 37mm, and those don't do much at all to aircraft, unless they hit an engine, or the cockpit, or such.
Archie Pellagio Posted February 10, 2002 Posted February 10, 2002 Originally posted by Stuart Galbraith:Yeah but im a lousy shot, if it doent have the leopards 2s fire control im shafted Then try the La-5 That plane is waaaay too overmodelled. The FW 190, way too slow, but one burst from those guns and anything in the gunsight is a smokin' hole in the sky
Manic Moran Posted February 10, 2002 Posted February 10, 2002 Speaking of MiG Alley, I can't seem to fly it worth a damn. I hop into 'immediate action' (or whatever), and I find myself in an unrecoverable spin within about 10-15 seconds. I'm not sure if it's because I'm shot down, over-maneuver or rip my own wing off, but the manual's not much help. NTM
Mekhazzio Posted February 10, 2002 Posted February 10, 2002 Heh, IL-2's La-5FN isn't overmodeled...in fact, it's worse in IL-2 than it is in most of the other sims I've seen it in It's just a good plane, easily one of the best all-around fighters in the war, in any theater. And...the FW-190, "too slow"? Pay attention to the airspeed gauge sometime The 190 has firepower, roll rate, speed, speed and speed. Of course, that's pretty much all it has, but hey. It seems somewhat underpowered in IL-2 compared to its representation in other sims, but it's still fast enough that its use doesn't change significantly.
Archie Pellagio Posted February 11, 2002 Posted February 11, 2002 Originally posted by Mekhazzio:Heh, IL-2's La-5FN isn't overmodeled...in fact, it's worse in IL-2 than it is in most of the other sims I've seen it in It's just a good plane, easily one of the best all-around fighters in the war, in any theater. And...the FW-190, "too slow"? Pay attention to the airspeed gauge sometime The 190 has firepower, roll rate, speed, speed and speed. Of course, that's pretty much all it has, but hey. It seems somewhat underpowered in IL-2 compared to its representation in other sims, but it's still fast enough that its use doesn't change significantly. The FW-190 in il-2 is waaay too underpowered, my money is that oleg and Co. based a lot of their results on soviet pilot reports which didn't hold the 190 too highly. The fact that almost most of the time they were ground attack versions, not the fighters didn't seem to phase the game's design... The big problem with the soviet aircraft, was that they didn't seem to model a lot of the major problems that faced pilots, even in late war La's and Yak's - poor manufacture quality, so we've got all the uber-ness of them, and none of the downsides. One thing that seems "strange" about it is how "not bad" several of the aircraft are. Take the P-39 for instance, supposedly a dog to handle, awfull etc etc, in il-2, it's quite capable of tangling with the best and winning on numerous occasions, and similar with the LaGG-3, real pilots described it as "under powered, not overly manouverable not a tremendous performer" etc, none of those seem to show through in il-2, quite to the crntrary, it is not only a joy to fly and fight in, it is very manouverable... But i'm just ranting I guess...
Gennady I. Beregovoy Posted February 11, 2002 Author Posted February 11, 2002 Il-2 simulation - only eastern front I reckon? And the FW-190 what type? D (i.e. Dora or FW-190-D-90)? The ground attack version? [Edited by Gennady I. Beregovoy (11 Feb 2002).]
Mekhazzio Posted February 11, 2002 Posted February 11, 2002 The P-39 earned its poor reputation in the hands of the US when it was forced to do high-altitude combat in the Pacific. It did miserably, which is to be expected, considering the engine was known to perform miserably at high altitude Since altitude was rarely an issue in the eastern front, The Soviets achieved very good results with it and had quite a few aces in it. They also pulled out much of the armor that the US originally equipped it with, making it peppier than the version the USAF despised so much. It is in IL-2 as it's supposed to be: pretty fast, fairly agile (although less so than their German counterparts) and with heavy firepower. Its only real weakness was its strange handling due to the mid-body engine (which made for a unique center of gravity) and vicious stall characteristics. Later on the aircraft was made more stable and stall-resistant, at the expense of some maneuverability, but they also steadily removed some of the armament to lighten it up even further. Try the various flavors of P-39 in IL-2, and see if you don't notice all these factors as they progress. Also, when you can get out of an inverted spin at 400m by just clicking "Refly", the learning curve of the P-39s stall characteristics is somewhat less steep, and people are more willing to fight it to the edge of the envelope than was common IRL (but this goes just the same for all fighters) And IMO, the LaGG-3 in IL-2 is a piece of junk. It's noticeably inferior to the 109F2, and substantially so to the 109G2, much less anything later than that. Of course, the LaGG doesn't have the problems with wings falling off that it occasionally did IRL, but calling it "too good" because of that is going too far The planes in IL-2 aren't really all that much different than they are in any other serious flight sim...the only thing is, until IL-2, the only serious WW2 flight sims have been the online games: Warbirds and Aces High. Don't take what you see in EAW, CFS, and especially not WW2 Fighters, as being any sort of gospel.
Archie Pellagio Posted February 12, 2002 Posted February 12, 2002 Originally posted by Stuart Galbraith:There was interesting speculation on the il2 forum that the german fw190s engines were downrated to preserve them, and that performance was affected acordingly, and that this was modelled in the game. Cant comment on that, but i put the lower speed onto the fact that it isnt an a8. It is a great aircraft still, though not one i want to dogfight in. Gennady, the jerry crates are the a4 and a5, with the a5 the ground attack version (though both can drop bombs and do aircombat sucessfully) There is present lobbying for the dora 9, which considering what a superb aircraft the la5 is, im not surprised. Doubless they will cry for a do335 when the la7 is finished....Asfor p39, i guess it depends what one you fly. i tried the Q1 (i think the one with the underwing 50 cals) and HATED it! Slow to accelerate, poor manuverabilty all round. The Q10 (4 bladed with 2 50 cals and the 37mm) is my favorite for maneuvre, but i dont like the lack of hitting power unless you use the 37mm. Whatever version you fly though it has a ton of ammo on board,which is just as well when im driving There are three snakes in il-2, the N1, IMO the most manouverable, not the best performer, but keep the speed high and you're fine. Armament is excellent, four 7.62's in the wings, a pair of 12.7's in the nose and the AASNMGD through the prop. And the Q1's in il-2 only has the 7.62's in the pods, so in effect you're less two .30 cals. Mek, the LaGG is great in il-2, you're just a crap pilot (just kidding)I find online, I can often hold my own in them, just you have to think, because most rooms on HL are full of the uber-dweebs in hoards of La-5F(or)N(ewbies) and Yak-3's.
Archie Pellagio Posted February 12, 2002 Posted February 12, 2002 Oh, and stuart, there was an announcement by oleg, reposted on www.il2centre.com which states that new planes are the Dora9, La-7, I-153 and a few others. And Der Stookie is nearly ready!Can ya hear the sirens already?nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnyyyyyyyyyyyeeeeeeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrnnnnnnnnngggggghhhhhhhh...BOOM!
Lev Posted February 17, 2002 Posted February 17, 2002 Originally posted by Luke_Yaxley:Then try the La-5 That plane is waaaay too overmodelled. The FW 190, way too slow, but one burst from those guns and anything in the gunsight is a smokin' hole in the sky Luftwhiner
Archie Pellagio Posted February 18, 2002 Posted February 18, 2002 Originally posted by Lev:Luftwhiner Flying Alcoholic?
Lev Posted February 18, 2002 Posted February 18, 2002 Originally posted by Luke_Yaxley:Flying Alcoholic? No that's a Luftwino. A Luftwhiner is someone who believes the "Boo Hoo oleg is being to patriotic" stuff posted on the il2forum
Archie Pellagio Posted February 19, 2002 Posted February 19, 2002 Originally posted by Lev:No that's a Luftwino. A Luftwhiner is someone who believes the "Boo Hoo oleg is being to patriotic" stuff posted on the il2forum Yeah I know what a luftwhiner/wiener is, but you can't honestly say that he FW represented is anything remotely like the A-4 & A-5, F & G, mabey, but not the fighters...
Lev Posted February 19, 2002 Posted February 19, 2002 Originally posted by Luke_Yaxley:Yeah I know what a luftwhiner/wiener is, but you can't honestly say that he FW represented is anything remotely like the A-4 & A-5, F & G, mabey, but not the fighters... I wonder if real Luftwaffe pilots in the east complained on this too? They had much the same problems as people in il2 have [Edited by Lev (19 Feb 2002).]
Lev Posted February 19, 2002 Posted February 19, 2002 Re: the LaGG, sure nice plane to fly. But it is outclassed in every performance aspects, in war that means you die. Because you can't beat someone in a turning fight, you can't BnZ and you can't run away! I think the redeeming factor is mainly that it is easy to fly, but it tops out in performance while the 109 just gets better as you get better. Does that makes sense? probably not, put this way the LaGG allows you to quickly and easily reach it's maximum potential making it seem like a good -or at least decent- aircraft. While with the 109 (especially the F2) you won't get more than decent performance immediatly, but as you get better there is far more performance to be gained. [Edited by Lev (19 Feb 2002).]
Archie Pellagio Posted February 20, 2002 Posted February 20, 2002 Originally posted by Lev:Re: the LaGG, sure nice plane to fly. But it is outclassed in every performance aspects, in war that means you die. Because you can't beat someone in a turning fight, you can't BnZ and you can't run away! I think the redeeming factor is mainly that it is easy to fly, but it tops out in performance while the 109 just gets better as you get better. Does that makes sense? probably not, put this way the LaGG allows you to quickly and easily reach it's maximum potential making it seem like a good -or at least decent- aircraft. While with the 109 (especially the F2) you won't get more than decent performance immediatly, but as you get better there is far more performance to be gained. Okay, the only hostiles in il-2 you'll encounter at the beginning of the war (first model LaGG's) are 109 emils and frederichs. Performance is close enough, you can use your higher roll rate to advantage, you can out dive them, and by word can you out gun them!Compared to all the other soviet flyable fighters at the beginning, the LaGG-3 is excellent, at least you can (if you're carefull) mix it up with te 109's to a degree, the MiG-3's are hit and run only BnZ'ers and have a piss poor armament to boot, and the Yak-1's fly like wet spongues...
Cinaruco Posted February 22, 2002 Posted February 22, 2002 Originally posted by Stuart Galbraith:Yep, ive just fallen in love with my airacobra. Once killed a fw190 with about 5 shots from the 37mm. Im slowly being convinced the RAF was wrong to get rid of it Can i have a link to buy this game?
gwshaw Posted February 24, 2002 Posted February 24, 2002 Originally posted by Luke_Yaxley:www.il-2sturmovik.com Doesn't work, comes up with a domain for sale message. Greg Shaw
Mekhazzio Posted February 24, 2002 Posted February 24, 2002 www.il2sturmovik.com (no dash) I'm sure all the usual places like Amazon and Chips&Bits carry it as well.
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