More new camo uniforms?

[George Newbill]

So what is the problem with the IOTV?

[FOXMG]

The IOTV has a few draw backs. First off the cumberbun is uncomfortable, the vest doesnt allow for much equipment to be strapped to it. Im not talking about these GI joes who have every bit of kit, Im talkin 6 mags, IFAK, Radio pouches, camelback, strap cutter, and NOD's pouch is a hard fit. You cant wear a rack system with it or the vst quick release wont work as designed. You cant wear anything high on your chest or it will interfere with the operation of the release. You are almost forced to wear mt of your kit to your immediate front where you lay on it if you go to the prone. The addition of the side plate makes it noticably heavier (ESAPI at that). If you remove the throat protector as we did the rest of the neck protector is not stable and just moves around on you. Most wolf hooks will not work on it.

 

It pain the shoulders even though it was designed to transfer more weight to the waste.

 

In order to take it off you have to lift the flap that has most of your kit MOLLE'd to it. Im sure its great for people who sit in a truck all day, its probably awesome for those that work in the hospital or lifeguard at liberty pool. I can tell you that the concencous between me, my men, my peers, and most of my superiors is we want our IBA's back. We never wore the DAPs, throat, or groin protectors anyways.

Edited July 1, 2009 by FOXMG

[George Newbill]

Talk about a damnation....to say that you want the IBA back. If I never see another IBA it will be to soon.

 

So what color is the IOTV?

[chino]

I prefer the Israeli concept of just one colour, period. As mentioned earlier on that, when in the field, it'll eventually get dirty and all that. Practical to hell I can imagine. Cheaper too I guess (no steeeeeeeenking rivalry between services and within each service "Oooh! I just have to get the coolest camo than those n00bs!").

 

Actually the IDF is the most extreme when it comes to uniformity. Not only does everyone wear the same uniform, they have kept to the same olive green (since formation of IDF?) And Israel doesn't even have forests.

 

OTOH Arab armies have don all manners of camo or desert khaki including the Syrian commando's "pink panther" camo during Israel's invasion of Beirut in the 80's.

 

Personally I have no doubt the right camo uniform is very useful. So while the rest of the world works feverishly away on better (now digital) camo uniform, does anyone know why a army that fight all the time in the desert - and is known to value its soldiers' lives - wear good ol' plain green?

 

The only reason I can guess at is easy recognition. Which can also save lives. For example Singapore and Malaysia. Until SAF completely switches to the new lighter colour digital uniform, we look nearly identical to the MAF soldiers at 100m or less in plain view bright daylight. Add in all the factors of concealment, smoke, poor light etc and it is impossible to differentiate SAF and MAF.

 

The WW2 armies had it a lot more easy with uniform ID as the opposing sides look vastly different - barring night time total darkness.

[chino]

 

This is the perfect illustration of what I was talking about. There are both SAF and MAF soldiers in this combined training. You can barely tell them apart even when they are walking together.

 

Maybe for this problem regarding recognition, SAF vehicles of all types including tanks remain a same shade of plain dark green. Whereas MAF vehicle are almost all painted in a camo scheme unique to MAF.

 

EDIT: Hint on recognition: Besides weapon difference, SAF wear the helmet camo cover, and nearly all wear glasses

Edited July 2, 2009 by chino

[Corinthian]

 

This is the perfect illustration of what I was talking about. There are both SAF and MAF soldiers in this combined training. You can barely tell them apart even when they are walking together.

 

Maybe for this problem regarding recognition, SAF vehicles of all types including tanks remain a same shade of plain dark green. Whereas MAF vehicle are almost all painted in a camo scheme unique to MAF.

 

EDIT: Hint on recognition: Besides weapon difference, SAF wear the helmet camo cover, and nearly all wear glasses

 

That pic is playing with my eyes. The three guys on the right foreground look like they've been "photoshopped" onto the pic, because they are of the same size or smaller than the guys at the left of the picture. Especially the little guy right of center behind the brighter guy.

[chino]

That pic is playing with my eyes. The three guys on the right foreground look like they've been "photoshopped" onto the pic, because they are of the same size or smaller than the guys at the left of the picture. Especially the little guy right of center behind the brighter guy.

 

It probably is.

 

I noticed it, too, but I couldn't be bothered to crop it and re-upload it.

 

But if you just look at the 3 guys at the extreme left. The is a SAF trooper sandwiched between two MAF troopers. It looks like the SAF guy is also ethnically Malay, which makes him even harder to distinguish from the MAF troopers!

 

Of course, it can be argued that technically both countries are friendly, so such near identical uniform look is unimportant.

[George Newbill]

New uniforms for the fighting in Afganistan? Needed or not? ACU okay or not?

[Noble713]

So what color is the IOTV?

 

Same as ACUs:

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/images...Features_lg.jpg

[George Newbill]

That looks heavy, hot and restricting. I'm sorry I asked, my feet hurt just looking at that thing.

[shep854]

As an interesting (well, to me anyway ) aside, I saw a pic today of a Marine with his rank neatly pinned at the front corners of his utility's shoulder pockets. The other Marine didn't have his there, but it seemed like a neat way to wear rank when wearing body armor.

Edited July 3, 2009 by shep854

[George Newbill]

We sewed our rank to the IBA as well as a nametag onto the front flap top, above the mollie attachments. So where else ya going to put it? Not on the helmet because the NVG mount is in the way. Not on the shirt because ya can't see the shirt under the armor.

[shep854]

We sewed our rank to the IBA as well as a nametag onto the front flap top, above the mollie attachments. So where else ya going to put it? Not on the helmet because the NVG mount is in the way. Not on the shirt because ya can't see the shirt under the armor.

 

As far as I can tell, the Velcro on the ACU sleeve pockets prevents rank attachment anywhere else.

[Paul G.]

Relevant. Apparently troops in A-stan are not happy with the ACUs.

 

Troops in Afghanistan would get new uniforms

[George Newbill]

Is this not the same report?

[Manic Moran]

The IOTV has a few draw backs. First off the cumberbun is uncomfortable, the vest doesnt allow for much equipment to be strapped to it. Im not talking about these GI joes who have every bit of kit, Im talkin 6 mags, IFAK, Radio pouches, camelback, strap cutter, and NOD's pouch is a hard fit. You cant wear a rack system with it or the vst quick release wont work as designed. You cant wear anything high on your chest or it will interfere with the operation of the release. You are almost forced to wear mt of your kit to your immediate front where you lay on it if you go to the prone. The addition of the side plate makes it noticably heavier (ESAPI at that). If you remove the throat protector as we did the rest of the neck protector is not stable and just moves around on you. Most wolf hooks will not work on it.

 

To get around most of those drawbacks (Though I've not figured out the point of the elastic waistband yet) I wear the LBE vest on top of the armour, and don't affix anything directly to the IOTV. I think it provides more flexiblity anyway, for getting in and out of hatches, or wearing coats or whatnot. I'm not alone, it seems about a third of the guys here are using the vests. Unfortunately, I need to use a carabiner to hook the vest to the armour and stop it riding up my neck, the old method of threading through shoulder-straps doesn't work on the IOTV.

 

NTM

[George Newbill]

Has anyone heard any more on this?

[shep854]

From Mil.com's "Early Brief" today:

 

http://www.defensetech.org/archives/004919...e=090710DEBWH03

[George Newbill]

Same story retold different day. The fact is: it is law, the Army must "Look into it." The Army will either either admit it screwed the pooch, (The Army never admits it's mistakes.) or the Army will just give lip service to it's orders from Congress. (The Army you know always obeys orders.)

[Lampshade111]

I had been thinking the new USAF uniform was a mistake. I mean the Marines having their own uniform is one thing, but the USAF would add a further level of possible confusion.

 

However at the last airshow I was at, it was quite difficult to tell it apart from the ACU from anything but a short distance.

[George Newbill]

Is anybody from Afganistan on Tanknet right now? There must be two dozen cammie patterns in use there what pattern works best?

 

The 3-color DCU worked best in Iraq.

[Guest JamesG123]

DCU is still the best uniform for both theaters, with the Marines' desert pattern second best. The AF and Navy personnel here have also started wearing Army ACUs with Navy and USAF patches and ranks because they are the only regular supply of fire resistant types that are mandated for use here (law of unintended consequences). This causes quite a bit of confusion and consternation with enlisted people saluting each other because it takes some observation and thought to tell the difference between a navy chief and an army colonel, or the USAF officers from US army enlisted due to where each traditionally put its rank insignia. fun fun.

 

The IOTV is a true piece of crap. No better protected or comfortable than the IBA and much harder to put on etc. You can put a wolf hook on it if you use a D-ring on the retention straps and don't or don't worry about cover bunching up. I've found that if you leave one side hooked together, its much quicker get buttoned up, plus you can put heavy stuff in that sides pouch and pocket (its where I put my PLS) without them flapping or falling out.

 

Using the MOLLE vest is a no-go with the IOTV, besides short-circuiting the quick release point of the thing, the vest adds weight and bulk plus gets in the way. Some guys use it, but I don't. Guys way out there have taken to wearing just plate carriers that they get locally and leave the IOTV back on the FOB.

[Special-K]

I while ago I read on another board about a guy who threw his ACU's into the washing machine with some Tan colored Rit Dye. He said it worked very well until he was told to stop using that uniform because he didn't look like everybody else.

 

I decided to try it myself with both Tan and Tan with a splash of Brown added in. It really changed the colors of the ACU, and I'm wondering if the idea is a sound one - simply using fabric dye to make the standard ACU blend into whatever environment it's going to be used in. One of these days I'm going to try dyeing one green to see how much of a difference that makes.

 

 

This photo has four different ACU's simply laid out on fresh snow. I know - it's a terrible background, it just happened to be January when I did this. Top Left is a standard ACU, Top Right ia ACU with Tan and a little Brown Rit Dye, Bottom Right is ACU with Tan Rit Dye, and Bottom Left is an early civilian 'ACUish' knockoff with Tan. They used different fabrics or ink, so they turned out differently.

 

 

This pic is the same uniforms in a different arraignment.

 

 

 

 

The other day (partially due to this thread and to another one on a different board), I decided to try it again, this time during summer. Being New York State, it's rather green here. I also decided to take some of the various uniforms I've gathered over the years and include them too.

 

This image is 9 different uniforms laid flat out on plain grass. From left to right, Top Row: Standard Woodland; German Flektarn; US 6 Color Desert. Middle Row: ACU with Tan and a little Brown Rit Dye; Standard ACU; ACU with Tan Rit Dye. These are the same as seen in the pics above. Bottom Row: Desert Night Camo; OD Green; Swiss Alpenflage. Also visible is a white sheet of printer paper for comparison purposes. This pic was taken from an upstairs window of my house.

 

 

This next pic is just of the three ACU patterns, just zoomed in a bit.

 

 

This pic is the same 9 above, in the same layout, with them on my driveway. It's 'paved' with tan/brown colored stones. The angle makes things look a bit distorted, but I have closeups if anyone wants to see them.

 

 

Again, the three ACU ones zoomed in a bit.

 

 

 

The last one is the same uniforms in the same layout, against the old railroad berm that abuts my property line. It's still very green, but it's shadowed a bit differently.

 

 

Same as above, but closer.

 

 

 

 

I have several more pics, including closeups, that I took that I would be happy to post if anyone wants to see them. I may also be able to take some pics with different backgrounds if that would be helpful.

 

 

 

 

-K

Edited July 25, 2009 by Special-K

[BP]

EXTREMELY well done little personal demo! Thank you for the pics.

[Guest JamesG123]

Thats kind of creepy actually. Like a multinational platoon (or your average third world army) blundered into a disintegrator ray while on partrol.

 

Yes the ACU "pattern" would work much better if it were a couple shades more tan and less bluish-gray. IT would still blend in with the night/twilight its supposed to, but just wouldn't stick out nearly as bad anywhere/time else. The FRs are a bit more tan than the regular ACUs, donno if this is by intention or because they haven't or don't fade as much.