More new camo uniforms?

[Dawes]

http://www.navytimes.com/news/2009/06/mili...iforms_061509w/

 

Geez, how many patterns do we really need?

[Hellfish6]

http://www.navytimes.com/news/2009/06/mili...iforms_061509w/

 

Geez, how many patterns do we really need?

 

Has Congress ever told the military that they needed a new uniform before?

 

Any idea what these uniforms will be (especially since I am probably going to Afghanistan before the year is over)?

[Guest JamesG123]

Been bitching about the ACUs for years. Amazing that Congress actually listened.

 

Maybe this will be the push (shove) to get Multi-Cam adopted finally?

[Hellfish6]

I heard that multicam was something like twice as expensive as the ACU, which is why it wasn't adopted outside of select units.

[Guest JamesG123]

You get what you pay for.

 

Oddly, I always thought that the ACU pattern fit better in rocky A-stan than dusty Iraq. But whatever...

[Hellfish6]

I still remember my first experience with ACUs at Fort Stewart. I drove past an infantry company in a forest. Pretty easy to pick them out, even in dense foliage.

[SCFalken]

I like the Italian camo pattern.

 

 

 

 

Falken

Edited June 16, 2009 by SCFalken

[FOXMG]

I like the ACU, I think it is excellent at concealing a soldier in a low light level enviroment. It breaks the pattern up nicely. Not to say there isnt something better out there, but the pattern seems to work. The velcro sucks though and the stitching seems to come apart on the velcro, especially the rank.

[Dawes]

The Army wanted a digital pattern, IIRC, which Multicam isn't.

[BP]

I like the ACU, I think it is excellent at concealing a soldier in a low light level enviroment.

 

Must be why all the mole people in the bowels on the Pentagon are wearing them.

[Archie Pellagio]

It is interesting as I would've thought the versatility of the ACu would've been ideal for Afghanistan where the transition from rocky ground to verdant river valleys is frequent.

 

Seems shit-house everywhere else though...

 

I've always been surprised by how good the Australian DPCU (original green, not desert clown suit) works in middle-eastern environments, seeing it in Somalia and Afghanistan it actually seems perfect.

 

I'd love to see a properly done digital version of it. There are some civvy versions but the colours and the colour balance is completely off.

[Dawes]

Could I show you something in a nice Lizard pattern or perhaps a 1944 Dots affair?

 

 

[T19]

Canadian CANPAD which is based on Digital Sat pictures of the area seems to work well

[George Newbill]

My daughter wants to play paintball this weekend so I dug out my ACUs and hung them up in the woods in question, oh God they sucked. Way too light. Well then I dug out some German Flectarn, cool spots based off Nazi tech, it sucked also, too dark. So I went and bought some Multicam Cammies in ACU style and pulled off all the stupid velcro that the ACU has all over it. You can get Multicam uniforms cut like BDUs, ACUs and some "Combat" design clothes that look like something from a BIG BUDGET sci-fi movie. The material in my ACU style uniform is a heavy rip-stop polyester/cotton that looks like it could stand up to actual heavy duty. I'm not sure the material is really supposed to be used in clothes, more like What I'd use for TA-50.

 

Multicam has a large splochy pattern but the sploches fade from one color to another like green to gold to pink and it has smaller sand and black sploches over that. The effect is that it looks as good as any other pattern at close range and at long range it takes on the predominate color of the surrounding land whether that is green, sand, reddish-brown or grey. The real genius is that at medium ranges the blending has a hazzy look that is hard to make out. It is also as you can imagine, IR suppressant. It was one of the top four patterns designed to replace the BDU. If I had to discribe it I'd say Multicam is the last and best of the splochy cammo patterns.

 

As far as I know no US unit has been issued Multicam except for testing but sales look to be brisk to those operators who want the very best. No my daughter will not be in Multicam she will be wearing her USMC issue MARPAT, I'll let you guys know which works better. I kid you not this Multicam pattern is better than any other pattern that I have seen anywhere, ever, I'll let you guys know if it keeps me from being shot Saturday.

Edited June 17, 2009 by George Newbill

[Dawes]

Heck, ASAT hunting camo looks weird but actually works pretty well in most environments. It is kinda '80's though:

 

 

[Guest JamesG123]

I like the ACU, I think it is excellent at concealing a soldier in a low light level enviroment. It breaks the pattern up nicely.

 

Anything that does not have high contrast colors (like the old BDUs) will do that. The problem with it is in full daylight conditions and in any environment that isn't grayish concrete, it stands out like a sore thumb.

 

The digital pattern is just military fashion. It does nothing to electronic sensors and serves no practical purpose other than "look hi-tech".

[Archie Pellagio]

What I don't understand is the obsession with finding a one pattern fits all uniform.

 

Surely multi-cam looks like shyte in woodland areas outside of autumn as badly as ACU?

Not enough green. Even an auscam DPCU in places like the sollies and Timor stands out a bit in the wet season, I can only imagine what an ACU or Multicam looks like in a jungle environment! :eek:

 

[EDIT]

 

Just found this pic: (The guy lit up like a chem-light is in multicam)

Edited June 17, 2009 by Luke_Yaxley

[shep854]

The whole digital camo thing got its start at the US Army's Natick facility. The Canadians picked it up for their CADPAT, the Marines adapted that for MARPAT, then the Army just had to keep up with the Marines yet look different, so wound up with ACUPAT. Multi-cam is a private venture.

 

I wiki'ed ACU and came up with this gem:

 

"The Urban Track pattern, which had received the poorest ratings in visual detection from the Natick Soldier Center's testing, was nevertheless modified and selected as the basis for the Army's Universal Camouflage Pattern.[9] The pattern was digitized and the color black was removed entirely.[10] Soldiers have reported that while the pattern is effective in an urban or desert environment, it is less effective in others, particularly jungle and tropical terrain.[11][12] As the U.S. Army is currently involved in the Middle-East, the uniform may have been biased towards the current operating environments."

 

----

 

(Bolding mine)

Edited June 17, 2009 by shep854

[Hans Engstrom]

Of course, considering that we spend a lot of time in vehicles getting ambushed instead of the other way around, something nice and cool (and fireresistant) might be all thats' necessary in Afghanistan. Add a ghillie suit as necessary for the other times.

[Guest JamesG123]

Yeah, the ACU uniform in just a single averaged color such as OD green or that "Coyote brown" would have been just as effective as anything else. It works for the IDF who probably have the most experience with fighting on varied terrain as anyone.

[Skywalkre]

The Army should be embarrassed that Congress of all people is telling them to do this and that they're absolutely right (when talking about influence on military decisions I'm usually one to argue to get Congress out of the cycle completely, maybe I should reconsider). The idea to go with one pattern for the ACU always struck me as ridiculously naive and cheap.

[FOXMG]

Must be why all the mole people in the bowels on the Pentagon are wearing them.

 

Dunno, never been down there. Thought they wore B's at the Pentagon? But like I said never been there (except the outside for the Army 10 miler, and I was pretty drunk at the time)

 

After 3 days in the field all the uniforms looks the same anyways. Dirty and oily. They all have that standard grey dirt color. BDU's, DCU's, and ACU's.

 

They do have fire resitant ACU's (FRACU's), they are issued to deploying peoples. I just got mine last week with my 2nd RFI. I havnt worn them, just packed them and sent them on their way. We also got the IOTV to replace our IBA's. So far not a big fan of that either, cant carry anything on it and wayyy too much armor. Did 15 mile ruck march in it and my shoulders were killing me. Im used to rucking also, so not like my body isnt conditioned for that.

 

 

The combat shirt is money though.

[Noble713]

The Army wanted a digital pattern, IIRC, which Multicam isn't.

 

Nitpick: Multicam is in fact digital, it just isn't pixelated.

 

I say put everyone in ACU-cut ODgreen uniforms, and add lightweight camo smocks depending on the region the unit is deploying to. Moisture-wicking shirts as a base layer will keep everyone reasonably cool, especially since we are moving towards lighter body armor.

 

We switched to the UDP (Universal Disruptive Pattern aka ACUPAT) to streamline our logistics, but it seems REALLY shortsighted to completely replace every uniform, piece of armor, and vest every 10 years when we invent the latest whizbang camo pattern. If everything is OD green, you only need to replace the camo smocks. Much cheaper in the long-term IMO.

 

People always looked at me funny for rocking green tac vests in my ACUs. Now here I am about to switch to the Marine Corps and my gear is still somewhat useful.

[SCFalken]

Now here I am about to switch to the Marine Corps

 

 

Falken

Edited June 18, 2009 by SCFalken

[Corinthian]

There was a discussion sometime on camo patterns at another board and it was mentioned that the digital pattern was conceived to reduce the effectiveness of thermal imagers. I found that claim odd, and an article (I think Wikipedia) was shown to me that mentions it. Do such uniforms (CADPAT, MARPAT, etc etc) really have an effect on thermal imagers?