Attention: Yak_V and other shipbuilders

[Gennady I. Beregovoy]

I need help.

 

You see, the IPMS-Phils. Nationals will be this September (yup, I know, long way to go), and I'll be joining (hopefully) with ship models, specifically Trump's 1/700 Kiev and Dragon's 1/700 Peter the Great/Kirov.

 

Now, I haven't built ships before, I mean completed building ships. My problem is painting. How does one paint the deck of the ship (normally a different color - in this case, the Kirov's would be "Wood Brown")? I mean, do you paint the deck first, then mask it, then paint the superstructure? Or do you use a very fine airbrush tip?

 

Many more queries as I build these two ships (and hopefully, if I find the Kuznetsov, I'll do that too).

 

Thanks in advance.

[Jacques]

One way to do the painting is to paint the deck, then paint the "gray" areas by airbrushing from just below the edges, to keep the overspray off the dcking, and then touch-up.

 

I also think that the tried and true method of paint - mask - paint - mask...etc...may be the best way.

 

I too am going to build the Kirov cruisers, we will have to see who finishes first...

[Brad Sallows]

I'm no expert, but my approach to the Snowberry I'm working on has been to paint the deck and the various assemblies (guns, equipment, lockers, housings, etc) separately before putting it all together. I suppose that's only satisfactory if most of the stuff above deck levels is not integrally moulded to the deck. I further suppose an expert (or handy amateur) might be able to cut off the integrally moulded parts if it was necessary to do a lot of different airbrush work (ie. a camo scheme).

[Steven P Allen]

Laugh if you will, but small scale ship model's decks are best painted BY BRUSH. After giving vertical surfaces the gray treatment, put your airbrush away. You'll stil need to mask, but you won't have to mask the whole thing at once. You can do a section at a time and CONTROL where the paint goes.

[Gennady I. Beregovoy]

First, thanks to all for the quick replies.

 

I think I'll do Steven's way, i.e. gray verticals first, deck by brush. I'll just use different paint types for it (non-deck areas with lacquer, deck itself with enamel) that way it's easier to removing erring paint. Although if I get too frustrated, I might just do the "deck first, verticals second" method.

 

Jacques: LOL! With your building schedule, you'll be finished at a much earlier time even if you start next week. Busy in both school and work, I only get to touch the Kirov and Kiev when I'm tired of studying - just an hour before I sleep actually.

 

BTW guys, the Kiev looks the easiest between the two. Quite a few parts and it looks wonderful when completed. Only bad thing is that it's a Soviet-era vessel, no Cake Stand radar to convert it into a Gorshkov, so I can't place the Kiev and Peter the Great side-by-side in a diorama. I plan on doing the latter in its current guise, with CADS-N-1 rather than the old 30mm CIWS.

 

Wish me luck!

 

More advise will be needed on how to build ships properly, so if you have any, do post!

[Jacques]

Hey Gennady,

 

is the Trumpeter Kiev better than the old AOSHIMA kiev, or are tehy the same kit? I have teh old dog of a AOSHIIMA kit, but if the Trumpeter one is as nice as you say, I may just have to buy that one to build.

 

As for the cake stand...I am looking to see if there is anything else available.

 

also, a good website for ship related stuff is:

http://www.modelwarships.com/main.html

 

I have had fun looking through it.

[Jacques]

well, looked at my Kuznetsov kit and it has a very rudimentary cake stand radar setup...looks like nothing more than a couple of evergreen rods run into eachother and capped off on both ends. If you want a cake stand to go on your kit, it may be pretty simple. I can take a pic of the kit part if you want to see what they offer.

 

I am thinking that someone has to have a PE set coming out to deal with soviet/russian/CIS ships, at least more than the older PE set by GMM...it has nice railings and radar, but needs to be updated. Did not find anything at White Metal Models though...

[Gennady I. Beregovoy]

Re: Kiev kit, I dunno really because it's my first and I haven't seen the Aoshima kit.

 

It looks nice and might be uber-simple to build (most of the work will go to the island superstructure and the forward deck details). You have a choice of waterline or full hull. Trump kit offers just 2 Yak VSTOLs and 2 Hormones (or was it Helix?). Checking my Janes, it can accomodate up to 12 Yaks or 12 helos, so I plan on making 4 resin or epoxy putty copies of the VSTOLs and maybe another 2 helos to make the flight deck look busy. The only PE parts that came with the kit are the four propellers. One has to get some PE rails or scratchbuild the rails with sprue.

 

Re: Cake Stand, interesting. Even just for reference as well and possible scratchbuilding, sure I'd like to see the Cake Stand kit part(s). Thanks!

 

BTW, anyone know who builds a 1/700 Slava? If the shop has one, I'll pair that one with the Kiev.

 

[Edited by Gennady I. Beregovoy (10 Feb 2004).]

[Jacques]

Here you go gennady

 

 

http://www.armorama.com/modules/photopost/...206P2100016.JPG

This is the little radar set that goes on top of the Cake Stand Radar.

 

 

http://www.armorama.com/modules/photopost/...206P2100013.JPG

These are the two Cake Stand pieces...not much there.

 

 

http://www.armorama.com/modules/photopost/...206P2100015.JPG

And the instructions. I hope this allows you to build a more modern Kiev!

 

And no Slava in 1/700 I could find. You could go with the Krivak Series from Skywave...2 ships in the box. Also, the DML Sovremmeny is VERY nice.

 

[Edited by Jacques (11 Feb 2004).]

[EW]

Hi Gennady,

 

As you know I don't do ships, but I stumbled acrrose this site about shipbuilding. Hope it is of any value to you

http://home.att.net/~ShipModelFAQ/

 

EW

[Gennady I. Beregovoy]

EW: WOW! Just what I need! Thanks for that page. I'll be checking it often to help me with my first ships.

 

Jacques: Thanks, too! Pix are very clear and looks uber-simple to scratchbuild. Now that you've posted them, a possibility to convert the Kiev to Gorshkov looks very promising. Maybe I'll get another Kiev just for that. Query though: how about the dimensions of the Cake Stand?

 

No joy on the Kuznetsov and Slava though. I'll check if the shop has 1/700 Sovremenny over the weekend.

 

I'm in a ship building mood now (obviously ). Just called the shop and inquired about their 1/184 (?) HMS Victory (Nelson's flag ship IIRC, not modern) by Air Fix. Can't wait for this Saturday to check it out meself. Having said that, anyone here built a sailing ship?

[EW]

Originally posted by Gennady I. Beregovoy:

I'm in a ship building mood now (obviously ).  Just called the shop and inquired about their 1/184 (?) HMS Victory (Nelson's flag ship IIRC, not modern) by Air Fix.  Can't wait for this Saturday to check it out meself.  Having said that, anyone here built a sailing ship?[/i]

 

In my youth, I did several. HMS Victory, Cutty Sark and of course Wasa. All Airfix. It was quite fun in fact, so I've toyed with the idea to have a go at one of those again. Problem is to find a better material for rigging. BTW, anyone here that have seen Wasa "live" than myself?

 

EW

[Jacques]

well, scale wise it looks about right for a cake stand, but I have not gotten out the calipers or anything.

 

best reference material I have seen on the Kiev class, and Kuznetsov, is Concord's book on them...look it up, you will like it.

[Steven P Allen]

I've built several sailing ships, including Constitution (twice: my mother inadvertantly trashed the first), HMS Bounty, a whaler, and Cutty Sark in 1/96. I've done a 24" version of Cutty Sark, a 15" version of Stag Hound, and some fairly tiny ships including Victory and a USN brig.

 

I'm debating grabbing a Heller 1/100 Victory and am actively looking for an old Revell 1/96 United States (not quite the same as Constitution). God knows when I'll ever have the chance to build either of them, but my surviving Constitution seems so lonely . . .

 

[Brad Sallows]

Saw Wasa in 1979.

 

Anyone else here do wooden kits for ships?

[Steven P Allen]

Originally posted by Steven P Allen:

I'm . . . actively looking for an old Revell 1/96 United States (not quite the same as Constitution).

 

BTW, if anybody runs across one of these kits, I'd love to hear about it.

[yak_v]

Sorry for the late reply.

 

I usually airbrush as much as possible, because I think that airbrushing looks better than using a brush.

 

The way I do it, I assemble the the large parts first (most of the large pieces of the surpestructure, smoke stacks, etc.), then I paint the deck. I also use the deck color to check if I left any gaps etc on the assembling the big parts. Once the deck is dry I mask it off, while leaving the big parts of the superstucture and large deck details exposed and airbrush the main hull color. Once that is all dry, I remove the tape and paint all of the small details, as well as do touchups. After that I do a dark wash on the hull, and dry brush. Once all of that is done and hull is basically complete, I start adding small details going from bow to stern. I usually leave the masts off until the very end, since it is very easy to damage them. Once all of the small details are added, I install the masts, rig the ship and weather and overspray everything with dull cote to hide the glue marks.

 

Here are a couple of articles that show the step that I take in more details (they are ship specific, but show the steps very well): http://www.modelwarships.com/reviews/ships...v/kuibyshev.htm http://www.modelwarships.com/reviews/ships...rossiya-bu.html

 

Vladimir

 

[Edited by yak_v (14 Feb 2004).]

[yak_v]

Originally posted by Jacques:

And no Slava in 1/700 I could find.  You could go with the Krivak Series from Skywave...2 ships in the box.  Also, the DML Sovremmeny is VERY nice.

 

<font size=1>[Edited by Jacques (11 Feb 2004).]

 

Actually is you don't mind doing a resin ship, Slava is availble in 1/700: http://www.steelnavy.com/CombrigMoskvaRKR.htm

 

Check out Kombrig's page for may modern as well as Cold war vintage Soviet Warships: http://www.steelnavy.com/CombrigPage.htm

 

For the various radars, White Ensign Models came out with a PE set for the Kirov: http://www.whiteensignmodels.com/brochure/...ss/wempe751.jpg http://www.steelnavy.com/WEMKirov700.htm

 

Vladimir

[Gennady I. Beregovoy]

Thanks Yak_V! I'm more-or-less well underway with my Kirov, so masking the deck now won't be an option. However, I'll do your suggestion with easier Kiev kit (not much problem with masking hehehe ).

 

As for PE, the Kirov set made me drooooooooool but it's beyond means to acquire so I'll have to settle trying to scratchbuild the main radars.

 

I am at a loss. Someone over here has beat me to the Kuznetsov which I saw a few months ago. So I'll have to contend meself getting another Kiev and modifying it into the Baku/Gorshkov.

 

I thought I saw a 1/700 Slava in plastic (not resin) before in one of the store shelves here. Maybe I mixed it up with another ship.

[Brad Sallows]

>overspray everything with dull cote to hide the glue marks

 

What "dull cote" do you use? I can't seem to find one which actually works as advertised - I've obtained results from semi-gloss to gloss.

[yak_v]

Originally posted by Brad Sallows:

>overspray everything with dull cote to hide the glue marks

 

What "dull cote" do you use?  I can't seem to find one which actually works as advertised - I've obtained results from semi-gloss to gloss.

 

Just the regular Model Master Dullcote thinned to about 50% consistency with enamel laquer.

 

Vladimir

[Gennady I. Beregovoy]

I don't want to start a new thread, hence this post:

 

Has anyone here built both the Revell 1/400 Typhoon and the Dragon 1/350 Typhoon? Which is the better/more accurate kit?

[Jacques]

Yak_V thanks for the links... I knew there had to be Kirov class stuff out there, but I could not find it.

 

Gennady...I have heard that the DML kit is the more accurate, but I have not specifically seen the two kits compared. Have fun with those ships..race you to the finish line!

[Gennady I. Beregovoy]

My experience with the 1/400 Revell kit is that its anechoic tile detail is more apparent. While the Dragon 1/350 kit (looking at the box when I was at the store) has larger, squarish anechoic tile detail. The missile doors are also different. Lots of differences really between the two kits at scales that aren't that much different. Is the Revell kit a rebox of something else, because IIRC the Dragon kit came out first? Can't really judge which is more accurate as the pics available online on the Typhoon are small and one cannot see the anechoic tile pattern detail that much. BTW, over here, the Revell kit was nearly twice the price as the Dragon kit. I might just get the Dragon kit when funding is forthcoming. Planning on doing another conversion.

 

Currently having fun with them alright. Just got my second Kiev (I cannot resist! ) and have started attacking it with much gusto by converting it into the Baku/Gorshkov (no such kit over here). Made major surgery last night on the superstructure (cut down to size) and the deck as well. It's a lot of work, but it IS do-able.

 

I'm thinking of doing my own PE for the radars by conducting an experiment. It involves epoxy putty and molten soldering lead.

 

Most likely Jacques you'll beat me to the finish line.

 

EDIT:

 

For those embarking on converting the Trump Kiev to the Gorshkov/Baku, if you have/had the Dragon Peter the Great Kirov kit, then you are lucky. The latter kit has parts which you could use for the Baku conversion without sacrificing the Kirov kit. These parts are "unusable" parts for the Kirov, but several - like the 100mm guns, 30mm CIWS, and the RBU-12000 ASW rockets - can be used on the Baku instead of scratchbuilding them. Also, the Helix ASW helo included in the Kirov kit is more detailed than the helo offered by the Trump Kiev so all you have to do is make molds and cast copies of the Helix for your Baku.

 

[Edited by Gennady I. Beregovoy (17 Feb 2004).]

[Jacques]

Gennady,

 

Another source of the parts inthe Dragon kits is Skywave's Equipment for Soviet Warships (or such) as it is nearly the same weapons sprue.

 

You will have to give a "blow by blow" on the Gorshcov conversion, as this is something I have had in mind as well...if you have the time to note it all that is

 

As for the Typhoon, the Revell kit, as I first saw it, was made for the movie "Hunt for Red October". So far as I know, it is the less accurate of the two, the anechoic coating being overscale for starters, but I have not really dug into my Naval resources as of late...I will have to get ahold of a Jane's Naval Review and look through the internet.