Filling Seams

[Brad Sallows]

I have been using putty products to fill seams where pieces join (eg. wing to wing root), but am finding that I do not have a very deft hand and a lot of sanding results. Are there any liquid filler products (other than simply using tube glue) favoured by the TankNet modelling community?

[EW]

Try CA super glue (the fluid and not the gelly variant ) for minor seams/"works". For major "surgery" I prefer Milliput, since it's the only putty that get hard enough (in a relative short period of time) and can be "re-scribed" without frayed/destroyed panel lines. My favourite for the usual type of problems are Tamiya's putty.

 

HTH

 

EW

 

[Edited by Ensign wanker (05 Apr 2004).]

[Garth]

After years of fiddling around with various types of putty, I finally settled on Dr.Microtools. The Squadron stuff (green and white) was just cr*p as far as I was concerned (WAY to gritty and prone to flaking off).

 

I've also tried the CA route (I used this for my B-2A in 1/72), but found that since it sets harder than most styrene, it's a real b*tch to sand it level without doing damage to the surrounding plastic.

 

My suggestion would be to invest in a good and diverse set of sanding tools (including the ubiquitious Testors plastic-back sheets, a Flexifile, the Flexifile set of sanding sticks, MeteorProd's set of sanding pads, and even foam-backed 3M sanding pads from your local hardware store - they can easily be cut apart to meet your specific needs), all of which might run you $45 total.

 

Then do the following: apply Dr.MicroTools using your implement of choice (I've use various X-acto blades and toothpicks), sand using the appropriate tools (sanding is like golf, when it comes right down to it ... unless you are VERY lucky you aren't going to put the ball into the hole using just your driver) and then overcoat with Future (applied by either handbrush or airbrush). The later provides an acrylic coating that permits overpainting without the dreaded change in texture from plastic to putty (some use CA for this and just accept having to sand the hell out of it) and can be easily sanded.

 

--Garth

[ShotMagnet]

Sometimes, if the seam to be filled isn't bad, I use liquid cement either brushed on or applied as a thin bead. It welds the plastic, which does most of the work in removing the seam, and can be sanded without a lot of trouble.

Two-part epoxy can work, and is good for filling seams that also need to be reinforced. Sanding it is not easy but it goes on as a thick liquid, which means that it can be worked for a few minutes with a toothpick or paintbrush end before it dries.

 

Shot

 

[Edited by ShotMagnet (06 Apr 2004).]

[EW]

Just some more quick notes. IMO the best way to minimize the amount of sanding, is dry fitting the parts. The 1/48 Gawa's F-104's series are a very good example of that(min. putty).

 

Secondly, as Shot says, what kind of glue you use, is of importance as well. If you you the "welding typ" that melts the plastic, the seams "disappear". Don't know the product name for the diff. glues in the States, but here we purchase Ethylis Acethas at the pharmacy. Works like a charm.

 

Furthermore I think one have to accept the fact that all kits need some sanding. Some more, others less. But in most cases the boring part can be reduced. If you have to sand a "larger" area, you ought to cover the surrounding panel lines with tape, to minimize the damage and the layer of putty. In worst case scenarios plastic cards can be a solution as a gap filler between the wing/fuselage joint. Talking about sanding papers I use between 240 up to 2000 grade to achive a good surface prior to painting.

 

EW

[Gennady I. Beregovoy]

Like EW, superglue (CA glue) is very good in filling minor seams. I hear some use a spray-on accelerator, but I find the drying time of regular CA glue quick enough (beats the hell out of regular putty). As for sanding it, I use the lowest grit I have (usually 240) and take care not to sand-off the detail around it. Fortunately so far, the items I fill with CA glue don't have detail around it that can disappear by sanding (that's because the seams I fill are mostly scratchbuilt items ).

 

I've also used Gunze's Mr. Surfacer to fill minor seams (read: minuscule). There are AFAIK two types - 500 and 1000. 500 is the thicker of the two IIRC. They are essentially ultra-thinned Mr. Putty. Both Mr. Putty and Mr. Surfacer can be levelled off with Mr. Color Thinner (a weak lacquer which doesn't melt the plastic). I've heard of Mr. Levelling Thinner but have no idea what it's for (I reckon it's for putty). Usually when they dry, they have the texture of high-grade sandpaper, so sanding them down is still required (their catalog says sanding it with 1000 grit sandpaper).

 

I rarely use regular hobby putty nowadays. For some reason, I cannot successfully wipe the excess off using the appropriate alcohol. Rather for major seams or gaping spaces, I use epoxy putty or 5-minute epoxy, sometimes fitting in a thin sheet of styrene to help fill the gap. I prefer epoxy putty because this can be wiped off with plain regular water (assuming the e.p. is water soluble). I sand it down and usually finish it off with CA glue and further sanding/polishing.

 

Sometimes, when I feel lazy hehehehe and for really minor seams, I use shavings from styrene (say from removing flash or the powder residue from sanding) to fill the gaps. Just put it on the seam, apply liquid cement, wait for it to dissolve the plastic shavings, and when dry sand it off. Works very nice especially for plain canopies. Here, chloroform (I think that's the counterpart of Ethylis Acethas EW mentioned) or Tamiya Extra Thin works best rather than regular liquid cement because chloroform or Extra Thin dries quickly, hence has a lesser chance of eating the plastic further.

 

With regard to Milliputt, there are two types - the standard (red colored box) and the fine (white colored box) variety. Difference between the two is that the latter is smoother, more polished (and also harder to knead IMO), so little to sometimes no sanding is required - all you need is water to level it off while it's still wet. This works best IMO for hard-to-reach areas or corners like wing roots.

 

[Edited by Gennady I. Beregovoy (06 Apr 2004).]

[Brad Sallows]

Thanks. I expect to try most of these techniques. My main problem is simply that my fat fingers apply goop the way Tammy Faye Bakker applies makeup, so I end up doing much more sanding than is reasonably necessary. I figure I have a better chance of avoiding over-coverage with a liquid.

[Gennady I. Beregovoy]

While we are on the subject of fillers, I've got an issue with regular hobby putty, be it Tamiya, Gunze, Italeri or whatever. It's that they don't stick to the surface. One reason why I've given up using them. I've sanding the surface to make it rough but still the putty ends up sticking to the applicator (usually a toothpick) rather than the model's surface. Does this happen to you guys too?

[EW]

Well, the Tamiya putty is rather sticky, but I never felt it really was an issue. I always apply it with toothpicks/Exacto Blades. Some of it comes off, but if one really presses down, while applying, it sticks. It's the same technique used by dentists. Hope this sheds some light/helps.

 

EW

[ShotMagnet]

I stopped using Tamiya, Squadron, et. al, putties because I couldn't get good result with them. I had the problems you all mentioned, and in some cases they did bad things to the plastic. For filling, I use CA or plastic cement, and sometime two-part epoxy. For reconstructive surgery or to smooth joins in scratchbuilt parts, I use epoxy putty.

Epoxy putty costs more, but it smooths and clean up with just water and I've never had an adherence problem using it.

 

Shot

[Gennady I. Beregovoy]

That's what I did too, EW. I end up having a big flat blob of hobby putty. Plus because it dries in epochs, hence the switch to CA glue and other fillers. I thought I was the only one having this problem, like I was applying it the wrong way.

 

BTW, one reason why I have a LOT of unbuilts in the past was because of putty. Before the Age of Filler Reason, I often stopped building a model because of the thought of filling the seams with putty, waiting for it to dry, sanding it only to see that putty you had a hard time sticking get chipped off...

[EW]

Originally posted by Gennady I. Beregovoy:

That's what I did too, EW.  I end up having a big flat blob of hobby putty.  Plus because it dries in epochs, hence the switch to CA glue and other fillers.

 

One way to minimize (sp?) the "blobs" is actually to apply masking tape around the area that is be treated with putty. For instance fuselage halves. With tape on on both side of the seam, one can narrow it down to about 1 - 2 mm of width. And that ain't much IMO. Plus you don't mess up the surroinding details. I normaly wait one hour for the Tamiya p. to harden, which is sufficient. A good excuse as ever for a coffe break

 

I said it earlier in this thread, and I say it again. Don't neglect the importance of dry-fitting. Much of this putty business can be avoided that way, in my experience. Frankkly I don't think there's some universal solution to this problem, but we all have our own ways to solve things, depending on what we build, experience and to some extent personal character ("fast movers" vs "slow movers")

 

Well, have to go for the day

 

 

EW

[Garth]

EW, have you tried Ambroid Pro-Weld by any chance? I consider it to be damn near a miracle glue and it's changed the way I build models completely (as well as allowed me to complete at least two models that I'd written off due to technical obstacles).

 

It works like this ... you dry fit the parts and, while pressing them together, run the brush of glue over the join. No need to either glue then press, or allow just enough of a gap to allow capillary action to take effect. It drys in two stages: first allows you to stop pressing the parts together and takes about 10 seconds, the second stage is a solid join and takes about an hour.

 

--Garth

[EW]

Re: Garth

 

I've never tried the Ambroid Pro-Weld, but by your description, etchylis acetas, works exactly the same way. I wouldn't be surprised at all, if one compared the labels of contents, that it turns out that the chemical compounds are identical. This method of applying "glue" reduces the problem with unwanted seams/gaps to a high degree, when one also take the time to dry fit all parts prior to assembly, according to my experience.

 

EW

 

<spelling as usual>

 

[Edited by Ensign wanker (09 Apr 2004).]