LeoTanker Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 I know nothing of this. Still it seems to me that rescuing the brave captain ought to be a secondary consideration at best. Killing the pirates (the ones with the hostage and the others) if the hostage dies, it is regrettable. But the main thing is making the pirates dead. I bet the captains family doesnt agree.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim the Tank Nut Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 Surely they would not but an entire nation can't be held at bay by the holding of a single hostage. Had the United States declared war on Iran during the Iran-Hostage crisis the appeal of taking Americans captive would certainly have been reduced.Over the long run a desire to save captives can be counter-productive by making hostages seem more desirable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyE Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 (edited) Nonsense to this talk of auto cannons or machines guns...nothing less than 8 inchers will do! But 106mm RCLs on swivelmounts armed with grapeshoot would be best, son. Edited April 10, 2009 by TonyE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Estes Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 Surely they would not but an entire nation can't be held at bay by the holding of a single hostage. Had the United States declared war on Iran during the Iran-Hostage crisis the appeal of taking Americans captive would certainly have been reduced.Over the long run a desire to save captives can be counter-productive by making hostages seem more desirable.Had the US declared war on Iran in 1979, we might still be there, but fighting on multiple fronts. The USSR went into Afghanistan in 1979 as well, not a good idea to have our forces adjacent, in hindsight. Killing as a solution is too automatic here on TN. Swerve makes a GOOD point on the other thread [in naval & air]: .... As for the current crop of Somalis. Tricky. I don't think escalating the level of violence is a good idea. The pirates have been very reluctant to kill, so far. I don't want that to change..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Donnelly Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 There might be a more practical reason why pirates aren't inclined to kill thier captives... Photo also taken from another thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmgill Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 There might be a more practical reason why pirates aren't inclined to kill thier captives... Photo also taken from another thread. Surface rust doesn't' mean the weapons won't fire. Especially those AKs. They're probably not very accurate with fouled/pitted bores. Though that can sometimes not be a hinderance to accuracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Donnelly Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 Do you think the only thing wrong with those weapons is some surface rust? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swerve Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 Does the Navy really need the FBI involved? If the Navy can't handle piracy without outside help then the Navy sucks pretty bad. Pirates are the reason we got into the Navy business in the first place. Here's a quick primer for the Navy. Kill the Pirates, once dead they won't be attacking any more ships.There's a coast full of desperately poor people who will accept very high risks, to replace those you kill. Navies can kill the footsoldiers. As long as there are more to be recruited, that won't solve the problem. You need to go after those who buy the boats & guns, hire the poor suckers who do the dirty work, negotiate the ransoms, & keep most of the money. The FBI & similar organisations can & should track money, hunt the lawyers, accountants, organisers, spotters, etc., around the world. Going after them would increase the cost & difficulty of piracy, for the people who finance it, & get most of the rewards from it. That doesn't mean warships shouldn't be out there chasing pirate skiffs & mother ships, just that there are other things that can be done as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Estes Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 There might be a more practical reason why pirates aren't inclined to kill thier captives... Photo also taken from another thread.Yep. Classic example of the old 'maintenance indicator,' which leads to checking what else they are not taking car of in those weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeoTanker Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 Ok, here is the stupid-question-of-the-day for you: How the heck do these chaps get aboard these, often very big, ships from their tiny speedboats in the first place? Do they just throw up a line and a hook and climb up the hull movie-style, or am I missing something obvious here? Or do they fire some shots in the air and demand the crew to lower a ladder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 I bet the captains family doesnt agree.. As I heard, the wife was angry at the ransoms being paid for other ships as she felt it increased the risk to others including her husband. Whether she still feels this way, I don't know but this seems to be a perfect opportunity to send a message to the pirates that if you target an American flagged ship, hell will be unleashed. The latest is he jumped out of the life boat and swam towards the DDG but the pirates jumped in and captured him again. Too bad the response by our side wasn't quicker or we might have had him back now. Then we could use the life boat for 5" practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmgill Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 Do you think the only thing wrong with those weapons is some surface rust? Suspect or know? What do you know about those weapons? It's a photo showing some rusty weapons. That's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 (edited) There's a coast full of desperately poor people who will accept very high risks, to replace those you kill. Navies can kill the footsoldiers. As long as there are more to be recruited, that won't solve the problem. You need to go after those who buy the boats & guns, hire the poor suckers who do the dirty work, negotiate the ransoms, & keep most of the money. The FBI & similar organisations can & should track money, hunt the lawyers, accountants, organisers, spotters, etc., around the world. Going after them would increase the cost & difficulty of piracy, for the people who finance it, & get most of the rewards from it. That doesn't mean warships shouldn't be out there chasing pirate skiffs & mother ships, just that there are other things that can be done as well. But the pirates depend on the finate supply of fisherman and fishing boat to move them around, those are not so easily replaced. Regardless of who attacked that arms convoy the rumours of killer drones looking for the masterminds of this stuff will make life less pleasent for the bigwigs. Have their marksman take out the rudder of the boat with their rifles, make it clear that the only way they will live, is if the Captain lives. intercept the incoming boats with a clear message, try to connect and we will vaporize you and your friends. Edited April 11, 2009 by Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archie Pellagio Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 UAV CAM-Ships w/ one hellfire? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 How difficult would it for snipers to make the shot from two hundred yards, aboard Bainbridge ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Estes Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 How difficult would it for snipers to make the shot from two hundred yards, aboard Bainbridge ?It was at night? Also, in the open seas you are automatically at sea state 2-3, so not too favorable a platform. There was alsothe element of surprise; if the skipper's captors were surprised, imagine the poor lookouts and reaction team on the DDG! The majors are reporting the approach of an LHD/USMC troops to join the two DDGs now on station. This changes everything.A CH53 could be rigged with a cargo net to snatch the boat, supported by suppression [they all have non-lethal wpns too] fomnearby landing craft/launches, drag it to the well deck, or if firm, just plop it on the flight deck. Just speculating on the vast variety of possibilities. Also the approach of 2 or more hostage ships invites a concerted approach as well. FBI provides negotiating skills most absent from the NavMC team, as well as on these TN threads! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shep854 Posted April 11, 2009 Author Share Posted April 11, 2009 Here are a number of articles describing the situation: http://search.live.com/results.aspx?q=Soma...amp;FORM=MSNTOD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 It was at night? Also, in the open seas you are automatically at sea state 2-3, so not too favorable a platform. There was alsothe element of surprise; if the skipper's captors were surprised, imagine the poor lookouts and reaction team on the DDG! I wasn't really thinking in terms of the precise moment - just wait for nightfall, pick a moment, then have the snipers take the shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 I really don't think they will kill the Captain. After he briefly escaped, they had their chance to do it but chose not to. They would have nothing to gain but heaven if they had. I hope we don't pay a ransom and as I see it, why not shoot at the boat? If anything it would scare the hell out of those jackasses and let them know we mean business! If they killed the Captian, they gain nothing because they would be dead themselves. I say, attack! Force their hand. They do this for money to provide for their families. From what I see, the pirates don't want to die. Just my 2 cents! I see we are moving more ships to the area. Do you suppose we will hit their bases? Boots on the ground and all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marek Tucan Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 Seems the French have more active approach than the US... French commandos storm yacht held by pirates, one hostage killed French commandos stormed a yacht held by pirates in an operation on Friday that left one hostage and two Somali gunmen dead, officials said. Last Updated: 8:08PM BST 10 Apr 2009 As a multinational force off Somalia built up its military muscle, French forces staged their rescue after talks broke down. One hostage and two pirates were killed and three other adults and a child on the yacht, the Tanit, were rescued six days after it was seized by pirates in the Gulf of Aden, a spokesman for Nicolas Sarkozy, the French president, said. ... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/...age-killed.html Bad news about one hostage being killed (how?) but that's the inevitable risk. Hopefully the rest of hostages is OK.From other source it seems that the two dead pirates were shot by snipers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sikkiyn Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 I am still of the "swamp the boat" ilk, and put all of them in the water; do what you wish at that point.It is nice that others are coming out to meet them- gunnery practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Estes Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 .... I see we are moving more ships to the area. Do you suppose we will hit their bases? Boots on the ground and all? Not in the least. That's the problem with doing so many invasions and occupations, it leaves you with too few troops to do anything of the sort at this point! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BansheeOne Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 I am still of the "swamp the boat" ilk, and put all of them in the water; do what you wish at that point.It is nice that others are coming out to meet them- gunnery practice. I understand this is one of those modern self-righting fully enclosed free-drop lifeboats (not the pirates' own, but taken from the ship), so swamping them or having snipers take them out at will is out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldsteel Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 Surface rust doesn't' mean the weapons won't fire. Especially those AKs. They're probably not very accurate with fouled/pitted bores. Though that can sometimes not be a hinderance to accuracy. What about Barnacles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 (edited) More rusty pirate weapons captured by the German navy off the Somali coast: http://www.bundeswehr.de/portal/a/bwde/kcx...E%2Fcontent.jsp Edited April 11, 2009 by Daan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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