Vegetarianism

[APF]

I don't think you can say that grinding wheat into flour & baking it into bread, butchering an animal, washing out the guts, mincing up a filling & stuffing it in is quicker than going out into the garden, picking a cabbage & dropping the leaves into boiling water for a few minutes.

 

No, but I *can* grind wheat into flour right now, bit if I were to go into the garden to pick a cabbage I won't be interested in food any more by the time the cabbage shows up

 

But all that nitpicking apart, both bread and sausage come in the ready-to-eat flavour, but the cabbage is usually presented in all its unkept, er, unwashed glory. So for me it is indeed much faster to go for sausage with bread than for cabbage.

 

Not to mention that you usually dont go for cabbage but rather initiate an endless loop between table and pot. Worst of all being sauerkraut, which will leave you stuffed right to the point of bursting, yet increase your hunger.

 

Greetings

[Dave M]

Using terms like certified plainly indicates to me you don't have the faintest clue about academia and its tough to have experimental setups in epidemiological studies. BTW PUBMED is merely an archival tool

 

Anyway princess, take your pick:

 

http://scholar.google.ca/scholar?q=meat+ca...amp;btnG=Search

 

I recommend the studies with large citation lists and work from there.

Dunno mate, you might have to prepare a hat to eat. making wild ass assumption on the identity of the one with whom you talk with, will usually get you in that position....

I'll recommend this one to you. don't worry, the fur is synthetic:

http://www.shturem.net/images/cols/160_col...12006_46333.jpg

 

Re your lit list:

the first article is quite interesting, stating - among other things - that pure vegetarians seem to develop higher rates of colon cancer then those who intake more then 140gr red meat daily (Hill M. (2002) "Meat, cancer and dietary advice to the public" European Journal of Clinical Nutrition 56 p.36-41

 

Additionally, Kushi et al (CA Cancer J. Clin 2006 56(5):241-281 ) emphasize the processing of the meat (as in grilling) and how fat is the meat, as the main health concern. for that matter, a pot roast of a Knuckle would do less harm then your char-grilled portion of Antipasti.

 

even Cotterchio M et al (Can. Epi. Biom. & prev 2008 17(11):3098-3107), who may support your claim to some degree places a great emphasis on the preparation of the meat.

 

So, no - there is no conclusive evidence to support your claim. in fact, Hirayama T ((1990): Life Style and Mortality. Basel: Karger.) have done, to the best my knowledge, the most thorough experiment in this area, showing that avoiding meat may well lead to higher risk of getting several types of colon cancer.

 

Now, instead of being a bloody smart-ass, next time your being asked for reference, just post them. if you don't know how, you can re-read this post...

[Ssnake]

If the past 60 years of dietary advice from medical professionals are to be summed up, it'll be "Don't eat too much or too little of anything, keep your feet warm and dry and a cool head", and that about any meal will kill you.

I advise ignorance towards all those studies with far-reaching recommendations that focus on a single type of meal. If you would follow every advice of heart doctors you couldn't enjoy your long but dull life. These idiots can bite me, I won't listen. I'm gonna eat what is tasty, I'll try to avoid gluttony, and I'll try to enjoy my life. If that means it'll end five years earlier, so be it. What good is a health-oriented lifestyle that you don't like but follow only because it's the reasonable thing to do if it promises a life expectancy of three years above the norm?

One can die any day by accident.

 

Life is short. Enjoy what's left of it.

[Dave M]

SSnake:

That's EXACTLY what medical professional say. eat in moderation and avoid excess of everything. anyone else is just no professional....

 

 

p.s. Jason -

You'll have quite a lot of time to think and read. I've got a conference in brazil to attend to....

http://www.istsbtx2009.com.br/conference_venue.asp

hehe....

Edited March 12, 2009 by Dave M

[Archie Pellagio]

Just stumbled on this gem of a quote:

If I'm in a plane crash, the first thing I want is to be with a vegetarian. You see, if it comes to cannibalism, you're right, and they're screwed.

 

[Dave M]

Yeah, yeah...

You know me, I suck at science and actually stay in a nice house on the suburbs of Bremen...

 

You can attack me personally all you want.

fact is: there is no conclusive evidence regarding the health risk of red meat consumption but rather at the problem of fatty meat and methods of preparation. and that's not as you've so decisively and arrogantly declared. so I still wait to see your conclusive evidence.

 

more importantly, you fail to address the experimental setup of the japanese experiment - you got the reference (btw - you still didn't get the hang of it) read the damn thing - you wouldn't have spouted the foolishness you had otherwise...

 

on the other hand, I'm not surprised. seems you like the taste of fur hats. should i send you another one?

Edited March 26, 2009 by Dave M

[Geoff Winnington-Ball]

 

So there.

[C.G.Erickson]

For those that think that vegetarianism is more humane....some food for thought

 

Plants are living things also, it's just they move alot slower and are easier to catch.

 

C.G.

[shep854]

The tribulations of a vegan: From MSNBC, a tofu lover's request for a personalized license plate is turned down because it could be interpreted as profane.

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30112394/?GT1=43001

 

The plate was to read "ILVTOFU" To my chagrin, I did not think of tofu, either.

[Geoff Winnington-Ball]

THIS oughta set the record straight...

[shep854]

THIS oughta set the record straight...

 

 

SCORE!

[Harold Jones]

The tribulations of a vegan: From MSNBC, a tofu lover's request for a personalized license plate is turned down because it could be interpreted as profane.

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30112394/?GT1=43001

 

The plate was to read "ILVTOFU" To my chagrin, I did not think of tofu, either.

 

 

ACLU has leapt to her defense http://www.denverpost.com/search/ci_12321528

 

and here is the list of offically banned letter combinations http://www.denverpost.com/quiz/ci_12097797

[swerve]

THIS oughta set the record straight...

Good old Mitchell & Webb. Ah, the BBC!

[X-Files]

AFP - The world's first "test-tube" meat, a hamburger made from a cow's stem cells, will be produced this fall, Dutch scientist Mark Post told a major science conference on Sunday.

http://www.foxnews.com/health/2012/02/20/test-tube-meat-to-be-available-this-fall-scientist-says/

Edited February 22, 2012 by X-Files

[Max H]

AFP - The world's first "test-tube" meat, a hamburger made from a cow's stem cells, will be produced this fall, Dutch scientist Mark Post told a major science conference on Sunday.

http://usnews.msnbc....io-rapists-home

Either that's the wrong link, or they really are sticking all kinds of stuff in hamburgers now

 

I wonder; is it possible to create cow stem cells from scratch? would anything grown from that be vegetarian friendly? The similarity to those yeast-based fake meats is striking...

[X-Files]

Correct disturbing hyperlink installed.

 

And now for something equally disturbing.

 

 

Researchers have nailed down something scientists, government officials and agribusiness proponents have argued about for years: whether antibiotics in livestock feed give rise to antibiotic-resistant germs that can threaten humans.

A study in the journal mBio, published by the American Society for Microbiology, shows how an antibiotic-susceptible Staph germ passed from humans into pigs, where it became resistant to the antibiotics tetracycline and methicillin. And then the antibiotic-resistant Staph learned to jump back into humans.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesalt/2012/02/21/147190101/how-using-antibiotics-in-animal-feed-creates-superbugs

[Harold Jones]

AFP - The world's first "test-tube" meat, a hamburger made from a cow's stem cells, will be produced this fall, Dutch scientist Mark Post told a major science conference on Sunday.

http://usnews.msnbc....io-rapists-home

Either that's the wrong link, or they really are sticking all kinds of stuff in hamburgers now

 

I wonder; is it possible to create cow stem cells from scratch? would anything grown from that be vegetarian friendly? The similarity to those yeast-based fake meats is striking...

 

I would guess that Vegans wouldn't eat it since the cells are havested by killing embryos and so are still animal products. Ovo-lacto vegetarians would probably have a fairly big schism as there will be those who say eating eggs is basically killing embryos and so there's no reason to not eat test tube meat. What I wondered is if the beef produced this way would be considered kosher.

[Max H]

I would guess that Vegans wouldn't eat it since the cells are havested by killing embryos and so are still animal products. Ovo-lacto vegetarians would probably have a fairly big schism as there will be those who say eating eggs is basically killing embryos and so there's no reason to not eat test tube meat. What I wondered is if the beef produced this way would be considered kosher.

And that is why I asked "is it possible to create cow stem cells from scratch?"

I know it is currently in the realm of sci-fi, but entirely synthetic meat would be just as "bad" as the yeast stuff - and that doesn't count as meat, it's only murder if you can see what you kill with the naked eye

 

ISTR hearing about stem cells being extracted from adults, if it was possible for a cow to survive a sample of cells being taken then we could have hamburgers causing as much suffering as milk - and AFAIK it's only the vegans who keep away from that stuff

[RETAC21]

Yes, but, would a humanitarian diet be perfect or not? that is, eating only humans... Anibal Lecter wonders.

[Harold Jones]

And that is why I asked "is it possible to create cow stem cells from scratch?"

I know it is currently in the realm of sci-fi, but entirely synthetic meat would be just as "bad" as the yeast stuff - and that doesn't count as meat, it's only murder if you can see what you kill with the naked eye

 

ISTR hearing about stem cells being extracted from adults, if it was possible for a cow to survive a sample of cells being taken then we could have hamburgers causing as much suffering as milk - and AFAIK it's only the vegans who keep away from that stuff

 

A lot of research has focused on reactivating human adult stem cells was driven by the ban on using Federal funding on human embrionic stem cell research. As far as I know there's been a fair amount of progress made, but I don't know if there has been much done on this for cows since there is no federal funding prohibition for research on bovine ebrionic stem cells.

[X-Files]

“How many more times do you have to whack the cow with a sledgehammer before the stem cells come out?” Edited February 23, 2012 by X-Files

[X-Files]

Well now. This explains alot.

 

Experts admitted surprise at the findings because so many other studies have linked red meat to physical health risks.

 

 

The team made the link after a study of 1000 Australian women.

 

Professor Felice Jacka, who led the research by Deakin University, Victoria, said: "We had originally thought that red meat might not be good for mental health but it turns out that it actually may be quite important.

 

"When we looked at women consuming less than the recommended amount of red meat in our study, we found that they were twice as likely to have a diagnosed depressive or anxiety disorder as those consuming the recommended amount.

 

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/9158235/Red-meat-halves-risk-of-depression.html

[Stargrunt6]

Lemme ponder on my med school classmates who are vegetarians.

 

Of about a dozen, a good number of them are varying degrees of neurotic. Two of them are male and are very mentally stable. HMMMM

[Ivanhoe]

Didn't take long to pick the study apart;

 

http://www.drbriffa.com/2012/03/15/red-meat-kills-its-flagrant-bias-thats-killing-me/

 

http://garytaubes.com/2012/03/science-pseudoscience-nutritional-epidemiology-and-meat/

 

http://www.gnolls.org/2893/always-be-skeptical-of-nutrition-headlines-or-what-red-meat-consumption-and-mortality-pan-et-al-really-tells-us/

 

http://blog.cholesterol-and-health.com/2010/09/new-study-shows-that-lying-about-your.html

 

http://rawfoodsos.com/2010/09/08/brand-spankin-new-study-are-low-carb-meat-eaters-in-trouble/

 

http://rawfoodsos.com/2010/09/08/brand-spankin-new-study-are-low-carb-meat-eaters-in-trouble/