Vegetarianism

[SALADIN]

I have got a relative in his 60s who has decided to become a vegetarian for what he claims are health and moral reasons.

 

Lets leave the moral part out but i always had the impression that a full vegetarian diet lacks amongst other things vitamin B12 and iron as well and hence was not as healthy as advertised.I have tried talking to him along those lines but he says my ideas are outdated and that sufficient protein,iron and all viatmins can be obtained from balanced vege diet.

 

What is the current reearch on this ?.Have any of you guys tried a full vegetarian diet?.Any aftereffects?.Should i actually be even convincing my relative to not be a vegetarian?.

[rmgill]

Seems like there were article(s) a while back detailing how brains of people with too low of protein intake will literally shrink.

 

That can't be good.

 

 

I looked at vegetarianism a while back when I was young and idealistic. The problem I found was that you have 1 or 2 proteins that you mostly can only get from meat and you'll be hard pressed to find it in anything vegetable based. I think there was one bean that has it, but frankly, I don't like beans that much. Vegetarian meals seemed, at the time to be amazingly boring. They still do.

Edited January 30, 2009 by rmgill

[Rocky Davis]

I'm not sure if this has been scientifically validated, but I have heard that vegetarians must eat lots more food (by volume and weight) in order to make up for the caloric deficiencies created by eating a strictly vegetarian diet. If this is true, then a non-vegetarian diet is probably a more efficient way of eating.

[Harold Jones]

I looked at vegetarianism a while back when I was young and idealistic. The problem I found was that you have 1 or 2 proteins that you mostly can only get from meat and you'll be hard pressed to find it in anything vegetable based. I think there was one bean that has it, but frankly, I don't like beans that much. Vegetarian meals seemed, at the time to be amazingly boring. They still do.

 

 

I really hate vegetarian cooking that tries to emulate meat, it is never successful. I really enjoy Indian vegetarian cooking, which never pretends to be meat and is so amazingly spiced that you could never call it boring.

[T19]

Vegetables are what food eat!!!

 

I believe that there is room for all of Gods creatures........ right next to the potatoes... smothered in gravy

[DougRichards]

On a purely health basis there isn't a good reason to go completely vegetarian. From the lit I've read (and anything in the nutritional domain should be taken with an ocean load of salt) the optimum is a vegetarian base with a minimum of meat - the heath benefits derived from veg are more about reducing the quantity of meat than eliminating it.

 

Vegetarians with a well balanced diet should be fine nutritionally however - iron is really not a problem with the proper bean an greens intake. Vitamin B12 is availlable too providing there is a healthy consumption of eggs and milk products.

 

Vegans have the real problem and have to support their (IMO inherently hypocritical lifestyles) by taking supplements or enriched foods. There is NO plant source for B12!

 

I personally eat a largely vegetarian diet with meat a few times a week and its been the best for me in terms of how I feel.

Salt is bad for the blood pressure....

 

[Archie Pellagio]

Trying due to semi-medical reasons, I found to survive off of a (mostly) vegetarian diet I had to 1) Eat a lot more food thoughout the day (Which = $$$) 2) generally felt i didn't have enough energy and wasn't getting as much 'oomph' from my food (the bloating from constant eating didn't help) and 3) The western style veggie dishes generally tasted like shyte. There were a lot of asian and indian dishes that were alright but were often not particularly convenient if you weren't in the mood to cook them.

 

My outlook in life is God/Budha/Allah/Yaweh/The-Great-Big-Explosion made me omnivourous. I am the dominant predator on this planet and I will eat as I please until God/Budha/Allah/Yaweh/The-Great-Big-Explosion deems my tenure is over and finds a predator to supercede me thoguh natural selection.

[SALADIN]

Trying due to semi-medical reasons, I found to survive off of a (mostly) vegetarian diet I had to 1) Eat a lot more food thoughout the day (Which = $$$) 2) generally felt i didn't have enough energy and wasn't getting as much 'oomph' from my food (the bloating from constant eating didn't help) and 3) The western style veggie dishes generally tasted like shyte. There were a lot of asian and indian dishes that were alright but were often not particularly convenient if you weren't in the mood to cook them.

 

I was in Southern India for two weeks and my friends suggested that for hygiene reasons,it was better to go vegetarian(unfounded rumuors that crow was being served as chicken).Had exactly the same sort of feelings you did(the bolded part).The vegetarian food was not providing the kind of "propellant" to keep me energised .Remember walking around for days feeling kinda reticent and smug. .The food though was quite delicious and well prepared.

 

Healthwise though it probably did bring down my fat and cholosterol levels a bit.

 

Does an older person (60 plus) need additional vitamins and nuturients in the same way a growing child needs?.If so isn't a vegetarian diet inadequate?.

Edited January 31, 2009 by SALADIN

[Archie Pellagio]

It takes a while to acclimatize to any sort of major diet change as well - beans and the like aren't easy to digest, but then neither is meat or milk for that matter, the only difference is that you're used to it.

 

...and one tastes better!

 

I'm no nutritionist but I'd be surprised if you couldn't emulate all the nutrients of an omnivorous diet with a vegetarian diet and I don't believe anyone else here is of that belief - Rather its just not as much fun.

 

I believe one should eat as many of God's critters and flora as possible in your eighty odd years, if for the simple reason that I can.

Edited January 31, 2009 by Luke_Yaxley

[scj1014]

I will say this about the health aspects of a vegetarian diet...it sure looks good on Carrie Underwood.

[Corinthian]

I believe one should eat as many of God's critters and flora as possible in your eighty odd years, if for the simple reason that I can.

 

[shep854]

Vegetables are what food eat!!!

 

I believe that there is room for all of Gods creatures........ right next to the potatoes... smothered in gravy

 

Vegetarian: Indian word for "bad hunter".

 

Jason L. makes a good point (just not the one he is trying to make, I believe); it's not either/or, but the proportions that are important. Just about all of us would do better for ourselves to back off on meat intake.

 

As far as dairy and eggs, don't the hard-core vegans consider any animal product taboo?

[DougRichards]

Actually that was pretty much exactly my point. I'm not a vegetarian but I do enjoy several meat free days a week - a diverse diet is just so much better for a huge number of reasons.

Diverse yes

 

Beef

 

Lamb

 

Chicken

 

Turkey

 

Fish

 

Crustaceams (NOT cetaceans....)

 

Calamari

 

Pork

 

Quail

 

Kangaroo

 

Venison

 

Rabbit

 

All with the most suitable alcholic beverage and suitable vegetables, and decent carbo and seasonings of course:

 

A very diverse diet.

[rmgill]

Diverse yes

 

Beef

 

Lamb

 

Chicken

 

Turkey

 

Fish

 

Crustaceams (NOT cetaceans....)

 

Calamari

 

Pork

 

Quail

 

Kangaroo

 

Venison

 

Rabbit

 

All with the most suitable alcholic beverage and suitable vegetables, and decent carbo and seasonings of course:

 

A very diverse diet.

 

What!? No Bison? You're missing out man!

[Harold Jones]

As far as dairy and eggs, don't the hard-core vegans consider any animal product taboo?

 

Yes, they also don't eat honey and the harder core won't wear or use products that include leather or animal based fibers. I have to admit to taking a little pleasure when I told a vegan co-worker that the expensive imported beer he had just won in a drawing was probably clarified with isinglass which is made from the swim bladders of fish. I figured it made up for all the hassle I had to go through to ensure that the two vegans in the office got a soy cheese pizza when we had lunch catered in.

[BP]

Vegetarianism is a mental illness.

 

 

This is therapy.

[Archie Pellagio]

 

I've eaten shit [not literally] with a smile that would make Bear Grillis cry like a girl...

[Corinthian]

I've eaten shit [not literally] with a smile that would make Bear Grillis cry like a girl...

 

Speaking of shit, I recall watching Bear drink water from elephant dung.

 

The closest "shit" I've eaten are crickets and they tasted lovely.

 

Of course, there's that restaurant at a local mall that serves really really bad food.... (just thinking of it makes me want to clean my mouth with sulfuric acid).

[Rickard N]

Diverse yes

 

Beef

 

Lamb

 

Chicken

 

Turkey

 

Fish

 

Crustaceams (NOT cetaceans....)

 

Calamari

 

Pork

 

Quail

 

Kangaroo

 

Venison

 

Rabbit

 

All with the most suitable alcholic beverage and suitable vegetables, and decent carbo and seasonings of course:

 

A very diverse diet.

Eat things that come from water? Against my religious beliefs

 

/R

[Daan]

I have been a vegetarian since birth (and am 24 now, 1.86m, 80kg), as my parents decided in their leftist adolescent days that eating meat and flesh was immoral. As a consequence I never really learned to eat meat (aside from the occasional Big Mac or pizza with salami when I was an adolescent) and do not really like the feel in my mouth and taste of most meat kinds that I have tasted so far. Especially horrible are things like chicken paws where you crunch on different types of soft and hard tissues. As a medical student it reminds me of my dissection sessions in the basement of the hospital and the original animal. Since I put my own nutrition in the foreground I may undertake an attempt at eating meat when I consider there is nothing of equal nutritutional value available. So when doing a summer vacation job in France this summer, I regularly ate slender objects called "fish battons" or "sticks". In order to have an adequate intake of iron, vitamines B2 and B12 I (and my parents and siblings) do take one vitamin pill a day. And yes, you do really have to take care that your diet is balanced. For example, when my sister started to menstruate she collapsed several times. Why? Iron-deficiency anemia. Of course, carnivorous girls also suffer from such faints, but the risk to vegetarians is a bit higher. The anemia was rapidly remmedied with iron pills from the GP and a closer attention to iron containing vegetables.

 

When eating together with carnivores I appreciate that my eating habits are quite different: I eat huge amounts of vegetables, salads and fruits while they often limit themselves to chucks of meats and very few green stuff or even none at all. I have been labelled a rabbit many times. Carnivores generally do not like the taste of what I eat, but for me it is all I know.

 

A strange phenomenon is that certain carnivores become really aggressive when someone identifies him- or herself as a vegetarian. This probably has something to with the higher than thou attitude of some veggies. I for myself do never preach as I consider it an individual choice not morally different.

 

Another issue is that for a 'life partner' I would prefer a vegetarian girl. However, almost all the vegetarian girls I met (if you ever meet them) are kind of strange and generally green radicals, while I consider myself a liberal in the classical European sense of the word.

Edited February 6, 2009 by Daan

[Archie Pellagio]

As a consequence I never really learned to eat meat (aside from the occasional Big Mac or pizza with salami when I was an adolescent) and do not really like the feel in my mouth and taste of most meat kinds that I have tasted so far. Especially horrible are things like chicken paws where you crunch on different types of soft and hard tissues.

 

This may come as a shock, but chicken claws aren't exactly common fare for most carnivores...

 

[shep854]

This may come as a shock, but chicken claws aren't exactly common fare for most carnivores...

 

 

Ahem. The new term is "meatitarian"...just ask the fine folks at Wendy's:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wi5_jNv3MoM

[pluto77189]

It pisses me off when vegetarians say their diet is healthier. It's only healthier when compared to the TYPICAL overweight-american diet, which itself isn't typical of all Americans, let alone all omnivorous humans.

 

there is no place on Earth where a human can live off the earth without eating meat. IF you got 100% no meat or meat products, you need to get stuff shipped to you that provide essential amino acids and nutrients. Moderns civilization, farming techniques and transportation of foodstuffs is the only thing that enables 100% vegan lifestyles.

 

There is no way a "wild" human can live that way, in an isolated area, without imports. It's an un-natural diet.

 

Human civilization and survival in general was due to our hunting and eating of meat. We can kill animals and eat meat a hell of a lot better than we can chew and digest plant matter. Our teeth, jaws and digestive system are proof of that.

 

It's hard to nurse a child if you are a vegetarian - milk production takes protein.

 

The problem isn't meat, it's too much meat - and food in general.

 

and what the hell are chicken paws? Do you mean the actual feet of chickens? Or is that some non-american slang for chicken nuggets or something??!?!

 

Try a nice, medium or medium rare, USDA choice or Prime, Ribeye, Flat Iron or tenderloin steak. Force yourself to eat the first few bites. The rest will be easy. You'll see.

[SALADIN]

It pisses me off when vegetarians say their diet is healthier. It's only healthier when compared to the TYPICAL overweight-american

True., My grandad was a complete vegetarian and he suffered very badly from lack of iron in the blood which led to all kinds of symptoms (dizziness being the most common one).

 

and what the hell are chicken paws? Do you mean the actual feet of chickens? Or is that some non-american slang for chicken nuggets or something??!?!

 

It is normally called chicken feet and it is Chinese delicacy.I have read of tons of chicken feet being exported from places like Australia to countries which consume it in the Far East.

Edited February 18, 2009 by SALADIN

[Ivanhoe]

I'm not sure if this has been scientifically validated, but I have heard that vegetarians must eat lots more food (by volume and weight) in order to make up for the caloric deficiencies created by eating a strictly vegetarian diet. If this is true, then a non-vegetarian diet is probably a more efficient way of eating.

 

Not true, America's obesity epidemic is primarily fueled by the cheapness and ubiquity of grains and starches. Wheat flour, corn meal, potatoes, rice and so on have a very high caloric density. You can go on a low-fat, low-meat diet and still rapidly gain weight.

 

I've done vegetarian before, for a coupla months, but its not for me. I was able to get enough protein to feel good, via beans and dairy, and certainly enough carbs, but the only place that wouldn't be a problem is an oil platform offshore. Totally unsat for an office worker. Without the beans and dairy, even for a day or two, I was not a happy camper.

 

I'm revisiting low-carb diets and reading up the Paleo Diet. Last time I got my weight down, all I did was routine light exercise, cut back to one restaurant meal a week and one frozen dinner a week, and otherwise limit my grains & starches intake to one of my daily meals. All other meals were meat, dairy, veggies, fruit with no grains or starches. I also cut way back on the sweets, of course. It worked pretty well and was easy to do, aside from just the very minor psychological stress of changing habits. I backslid because carbs are cheap, easy, tasty, store well, etc.

 

It is true, apparently, that folks on a low-carb diet tend to eat a greater volume of food. If meat portions are reasonable and relatively low-fat, it takes a LOT of vegetables and fruit to provide X number of calories. Given the research of the last 20 years, its probably wise to design in desirable fats, to achieve a good Omega-3/Omega-6 ratio. I've been using only olive oil for cooking the last couple of years, and am gonna try adding flaxseed oil to veggies (and possibly salad dressing) to increase my Omega-3 intake.

 

I'm highly skeptical about assertions that people are eating too much meat. People are eating too much animal fat, too much breading, too much corn oil soaked into the breading, and way too much hydrogenated oils. Our bodies have developed to handle pretty substantial amounts of lean red meat. The example used by the Paleo Diet folks are modern hunter-gatherer types like the Masai, whose diet is mainly grass-fed beef and milk; not too many morbidly obese Masai to be found. Hell, even a high meat, high fat diet isn't a death sentence, or explorers would never have found the Inuit living up north. They only started having cardiac problems when they started buying store food; fish, seals and seal oil, and I guess whales and walrii were OK.