Sikkiyn Posted February 19, 2009 Posted February 19, 2009 Great, thanks. Got any serious, workable ideas? You seem to be advocating policies that will never be implemented. Perhaps you are barking up the wrong tree? I'm not sure of the drugs which are used, but I know that it is possible to suspend a person in a chemical coma, and flush all opiates and other toxins from their bodies overnight. Of course this would only deal with the physical addiction and not the mental. For the mental addiction, simply erasing the memories as they happen through simple pharmaceuticals is a reality; ref: CaMKII enzyme. As for the pusher, dealer, maker.... Got Hammer?
Paul in Qatar Posted February 19, 2009 Posted February 19, 2009 Our society has shown itself unwilling to provide the acres of expensive drug treatment you propose. We have also failed to provide the sort of hammer you asked for. You are calling for more of the same, and our society is weary of this fight. That might be wrong, but it is true. Time to give up on cannabis and put resources where they can mitigate the most harm.
Simon Tan Posted February 20, 2009 Posted February 20, 2009 I disagree. I would make the hardest drugs available for free and in as large quantities as desired as long as it was consumed in a controlled environment and the user signs a waiver that declares that they are of sound mind and body and do not wish to be resuscitated. Rather than draw out and prolong the agony, best to hurry them along in as painless and civilized manner as possible. They'd pass on happy and that's more than can be said for a lot of folk more deserving. I don't want to incarcerate them, rehabilitate them or force them to do anything against their will. Let them come and die happy. Can't hack it anymore? Run out of veins to shoot? Got no more money to feed the habit? Come, get high and go happy. Paul...society is not wary of the fight, just because you say so. People deal in contraband to make money. If you decriminalize the contraband, they'll still be dealers and pushers, only they'll be pushing something harder and nastier. Nobody pushes and deals for the sake of doing so.
Vasiliy Fofanov Posted February 20, 2009 Posted February 20, 2009 I would make the hardest drugs available for free and in as large quantities as desired as long as it was consumed in a controlled environment and the user signs a waiver that declares that they are of sound mind and body Umm... hardest drugs... sound mind... not quite sure how is one compatible with the other...
Vasiliy Fofanov Posted February 20, 2009 Posted February 20, 2009 Time to give up on cannabis and put resources where they can mitigate the most harm. So all you care about is cannabis? I had an impression you were campaigning for the total freedom in drugs use, not just cannabis? The harm to society from cannabis use is probably fairly limited, but so is crime associated with it so your grandstanding regarding the cops you'll save by legalizing it becomes rather strange. It's the hard drugs that cause most harm to society and at the same time attract the worst sort of criminals - do you advocate legalizing them or not? Quit obfuscating already.
Simon Tan Posted February 20, 2009 Posted February 20, 2009 Vas.... it's a legal formality. Think of it as self-euthanasia.
Vasiliy Fofanov Posted February 20, 2009 Posted February 20, 2009 Vas.... it's a legal formality. Think of it as self-euthanasia. Might as well go all the way and actually euthanize them, and not bother with written consent either
Paul in Qatar Posted February 20, 2009 Posted February 20, 2009 Quit obfuscating already. Obfuscating? I can't even spell the word. I thought I stated my position quite clearly. I advocate the legalization and regulation of cannabis. I said that clearly without stuttering. I have not advocated legalizing anything else. I do not advocate legalizing any other drug.
swerve Posted February 20, 2009 Posted February 20, 2009 Comparing cannabis to alcohol, I was just wondering, is not Cannabis a hallucinogen which is more dangerous to use if the user has to drive or use machinery compared to alcohol??Probably not. It has mild hallucinogenic properties, but if you've taken enough for that to render you unfit to drive you've been pretty well off your head in the same way as with alcohol for a while first, so it's not really relevant. Tests suggest that the impairments are very similar.
toysoldier Posted February 20, 2009 Posted February 20, 2009 The problem with pot is the whole "gate drug" concept.
Simon Tan Posted February 20, 2009 Posted February 20, 2009 Vas...the state cannot decide who is to be euthanized. No, that would be quite immoral. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. If a person consciously decides that the her or she would like to pursue the last at the cost of the first, why should anyone make it more difficult than it has to be? Why, even the USSR did not resort to such measures. No, no, this is a mutually beneficial arrangement between society and junkie. They get high and then they cease to be a burden. It's quite beautiful really.
Guest aevans Posted February 20, 2009 Posted February 20, 2009 The problem with pot is the whole "gate drug" concept. There are people who will deny with their dying breath that pot is a gateway drug. Yet I have never met a regular pot user who didn't do other drugs. Not a single one. Correlation may not be causation, but it certainly needs to be explained, when it is that complete.
Jeff Posted February 20, 2009 Posted February 20, 2009 Obfuscating? I can't even spell the word. I thought I stated my position quite clearly. I advocate the legalization and regulation of cannabis. I said that clearly without stuttering. I have not advocated legalizing anything else. I do not advocate legalizing any other drug.I don't think the Mexicans are slaughtering each other over pot, the big money(and therefore violence) is in the other drugs.
Jeff Posted February 20, 2009 Posted February 20, 2009 There are people who will deny with their dying breath that pot is a gateway drug. Yet I have never met a regular pot user who didn't do other drugs. Not a single one. Correlation may not be causation, but it certainly needs to be explained, when it is that complete.It was my gateway to other "fun" and though the other "fun" was limited, the pot part cost me quite a bit of pain and suffering in that time frame.
NickM Posted February 21, 2009 Posted February 21, 2009 Obfuscating? I can't even spell the word. I thought I stated my position quite clearly. I advocate the legalization and regulation of cannabis. I said that clearly without stuttering. I have not advocated legalizing anything else. I do not advocate legalizing any other drug. No Paul, the point don't seem to be getting is that Pot is NOT what the cartels are kiling each other over...so advocating pot legalization is sort of meaningless in regards to the issues... NM
Paul in Qatar Posted February 21, 2009 Posted February 21, 2009 Well I certainly do not know. The idea of smuggling tons and tons of low-value, high-bulk pot boggles my mind. But the media reports say there is now a large and lucrative cross-border trade in pot. When I last looked at the problem, it was a truism that most pot was consumed in the same county in which it was grown.
X-Files Posted February 21, 2009 Author Posted February 21, 2009 State Dept. issues travel alert for MexicoPosted: Feb 20, 2009 09:57 PM Updated: Feb 20, 2009 10:00 PM http://www.kvia.com/Global/story.asp?S=9879404&nav=AbC0*A bloody three-hour firefight between suspected drug traffickers and Mexican soldiers and federal police in Reynosa, Mexico, on Feb. 17 has reportedly left at least five soldiers and five suspected gunmen dead. The engagement began in an area just outside of the city’s downtown, near a shopping center containing several large department stores, and eventually spread to other parts of the city. According to local press reports, the gunmen involved were armed with assault rifles, fragmentation grenades and, according to one report, rocket-propelled grenades. One unconfirmed report indicated that several children may have been wounded or killed by stray bullets during the shooting, and many schools, businesses and government offices in the area closed their doors for the day. http://www.stratfor.com/analysis/20090217_...ighting_reynosa*Juárez chief quits as cartel members keep promise to kill officers10:18 PM CST on Friday, February 20, 2009The Associated Press CIUDAD JUÁREZ, Mexico – The police chief of this violent border city stepped down Friday after suspected drug cartel members carried out a threat to force his resignation by killing two law officers.http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dw...ez.3d4abdd.html *Protests may be Mexican drug cartels' latest tactic to fight military presence 07:01 AM CST on Thursday, February 19, 2009By LAURENCE ILIFF / The Dallas Morning News liliff@dallasnews.com MEXICO CITY – Drug cartels unleashed a new and potentially powerful weapon this week in their battle with the government, analysts say – the use of unarmed civilian protesters to demand the withdrawal of army soldiers in drug hot spots along the Mexico-Texas border. Protesters paralyzed nine bridges linking Mexico to Texas on Tuesday, and local, state and federal authorities allege that the demonstrators were paid by drug-trafficking groups. http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dw...ts.3de2f33.html
Old Tanker Posted February 21, 2009 Posted February 21, 2009 Well I certainly do not know. The idea of smuggling tons and tons of low-value, high-bulk pot boggles my mind. But the media reports say there is now a large and lucrative cross-border trade in pot. When I last looked at the problem, it was a truism that most pot was consumed in the same county in which it was grown. A couple of tidbits. * The Fed prosecutor that Bush fired locally , now under scrutiny now by whinney Lefty-Libs , refused to prosecute pot smugglers caught with under 500 lbs of pot.Easy enough , 490lbs of pot seized , stolen truck seized , smuggler gets 24 hrs in slammer followed by free bus ride back to Mexico and still in biz. No worse than a veh tow-away for illegal parking.* Mex cartels are growing pot in U.S. Nat'l Forests according to some reports guarded by armed Cartel members.
Paul in Qatar Posted February 21, 2009 Posted February 21, 2009 So by legalizing pot we could deny these killers a revenue flow? And raise tax revenues? Win-Win!
Hans Engstrom Posted February 22, 2009 Posted February 22, 2009 My point was (apologies for late reply, lots of work currently), that the drug problem is (in my opinion) one of demand, not supply. Remove the demand (by whatever means necessary), and the problem goes away.
NickM Posted February 22, 2009 Posted February 22, 2009 So by legalizing pot we could deny these killers a revenue flow? And raise tax revenues? Win-Win! Meanwhile they keep offering 'untaxed' weed at one half to one quarter the taxed price & continue to make a mint on Heroin & Meth.... NM
NickM Posted February 22, 2009 Posted February 22, 2009 Remove the demand (by whatever means necessary), and the problem goes away. Like maybe a sledgehammer to skull? NM
Paul in Qatar Posted February 22, 2009 Posted February 22, 2009 So still no practical solution then? Keep working on it.
X-Files Posted February 23, 2009 Author Posted February 23, 2009 The Feds have reported that the gans consider marijuana a cash cow, to the point that they use it to finanace their operations with harder drugs. It seems counterintuitive that the gangs would simply let such a lucrative source of revenue go, even if marijuana was legalized. Smuggling to avoid taxation is no different than smuggling to avoid confiscation. What does TN's LEOs think of the 'legalization' movement?
Vasiliy Fofanov Posted February 23, 2009 Posted February 23, 2009 Obfuscating? I can't even spell the word. I thought I stated my position quite clearly. I advocate the legalization and regulation of cannabis. I said that clearly without stuttering. I have not advocated legalizing anything else. I do not advocate legalizing any other drug. Okay, this position is at least much more palatable to me than what I thought your position was, even though I still disagree with it. In any case, given the big legal pressure the tobacco companies are under, I just don't see a viable business model for an official cannabis producer in the US. Your example of the Netherlands isn't really applicable because you can't get millions of dollars/euros in damages in Europe even if someone cuts your hand of, nevermind for something so flimsy as getting lung cancer after 20 years of deliberately poisoning yourself. A cannabis smoker can sue for everything a tobacco one can, PLUS for anything he did due to impaired critical reasoning/loss of balance/whatever. Heck, he can plow through a busstop full of people and cannabis company can end up paying the bill. So not gonna work.
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