U.S. military report warns 'sudden collapse' of Mexico is possible

[Gunguy]

OK, I'll cut through all the BS. Most of our illegal drug use was legal in the USA! The reason it is not legal now is that the people at the turn of the century had massive problems with society. People could not control themselves (no "recreational" drug use) and they were affecting society. This then became a problem with the legislature and laws were passed. You can't play with crystal meth and a few other non-narcotic drugs and get away with it, they are too dangerous. Trying to equate pot with other dangerous drugs does not work. Narcotics are not all that bad. I have taken large amounts over the years (Vicoden, medicinal only) and they really don't do all that much for anyone to get physically addicted. Emotionally, yes. Anyway, it really depends on what drugs you are talking about.

 

Also, society learned they did not want to add meth and LSD and other weird "highs" to people driving around on the road. Also, as is always brought up, with legalized drugs of ALL types, do you want your surgeon to be using a little teeny bit of LSD before he operates?

So, it depends on the individual drug, and then you have to extrapolate it out to the work environment. This is where it usually falls on its face. You could model it after alcohol, come to work high and your fired, but that just increases unemployment, not really good for the country. I think most people could care less about pot, but other drugs, like LSD and meth are a different ball game.

 

Now where is my Vicoden, valium and flexeril, hmmm maybe the cat got into it...........

[X-Files]

TIJUANA, Mexico (Reuters) - Mexican drug gangs near the U.S. border are breaking into police radio frequencies to issue chilling death threats to cops which they then carry out, demoralizing security forces in a worsening drug war.

 

"You're next, bastard ... We're going to get you," an unidentified drug gang member said over the police radio in the city of Tijuana after naming a policeman.

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idU...eedName=topNews

[alfa]

I think that drugs ban also has to be workable. If you can control drugs with minor segment of population getting criminalised, it MAY be advisable. But when it has stopped working to the extent that Geo-political changes are taking place due to drug trade then it strongly suggests a re-look.

 

Further due to extremely weak criminal justice system in democratic nations (USA, Western Europe, India?) etc, known mafia lords roam around scot free. No way drugs can be controlled. Better to dispense soft drugs, starting with Govt shops/pharmacies, one day a week, say friday evening.

Edited February 8, 2009 by alfa

[Paul in Qatar]

I am reading a bit on FDR.

 

He was a "Wet," and it wasn't a big deal. The whole lifting of prohibition is usually worth a couple of paragraphs in a general history. Compare that to now. No serious politician is even willing to discuss legalization. Look at the number of policemen who would get to go home safe and sound, think of the tax money that could be raised, think of the doper kids who would not end up being buttfucked.

 

There is no downside to legalization of at least cannabis, but at the moment we would rather have the policemen killed, the our taxes raised and kids locked up.

[Jeff]

I am reading a bit on FDR.

 

He was a "Wet," and it wasn't a big deal. The whole lifting of prohibition is usually worth a couple of paragraphs in a general history. Compare that to now. No serious politician is even willing to discuss legalization. Look at the number of policemen who would get to go home safe and sound, think of the tax money that could be raised, think of the doper kids who would not end up being buttfucked.

 

There is no downside to legalization of at least cannabis, but at the moment we would rather have the policemen killed, the our taxes raised and kids locked up.

I think you're ascribing outcomes to a particular action that remain to be proven.

[NickM]

"There is no downside to legalization of at least cannabis, but at the moment we would rather have the policemen killed, the our taxes raised and kids locked up."

 

 

Guys:

 

WHY does everyone always mention pot? What about Meth, crack, & even HARDER drugs? It's not like THAT shit gives you a 'harmless little buzz'! IF it doesn't kill you outright it makes you paranoid, irrational & violent---between you and me, anybody who tends towards using that shit isn't anybody I'd like to have roaming around fee...You don't want cops to 'get killed'?

Then legalize crime!

 

nm

[Paul in Qatar]

So you are in favor or opposed to legalization of cannabis?

[NickM]

So you are in favor or opposed to legalization of cannabis?

 

 

Those Fucks are killing each other over Heroin & Crank....sniveling about Pot is like complaining about your hangnail while somebody is feeding your other arm into a meatgrinder....point is declaring something 'legal' is NOT gonna solve the problem:

Heavily armed violent crazy bastards---as I have said before: so you legalize drugs, that only leaves extortion, protection, kidnapping & black market gas & ciggies for those psychos to "eke" out a living....

 

nm

[Paul in Qatar]

So you are in favor or opposed to legalization of cannabis?

[NickM]

So you are in favor or opposed to legalization of cannabis?

 

But what does THAT have to do with the price of Mexicans cutting each others' heads off??

 

 

NM

[Paul in Qatar]

I suppose with less American money going for their pot,* there would be less killing.

 

As a bonus, we could tax legal cannabis. Further with less money going to the Bad Guys in the US and Mexico we could bury fewer policemen and send fewer kids to jail. I simply see no downside.

 

 

*Used to be local people in the US smoked locally-grown pot. How the heck does anyone import commercial quantities of of MJ? We are talking tonnage here. But I digress.

[Colin]

I despise all of the drugs, but i would support legal pot with some controls on THC levels and selling/use restriction similar to booze. However in exchange for this I want much heavier penalties for the sale and possession of the harder drugs. My reasoning is that normal pot will eventually turn you into a pothead, but it takes a long time and a fair bit of daily use to do it. Breaking the habit is not easy but doable. With the new drugs, even one high can be fatal or turn you into a complete addict and the timeframe to destroy your body and mind is so short..

 

As for Mexico, they have been happily exporting their problems out of the country minimizing the effects of their inane policies and almost useless corrupt government. Now with falling oil production, global economic decline, it’s going to be payback time. A lot of Mexicans have had a taste of the decent life with functioning government at all levels and reliable police. They aren’t going to accept the status quo back home for long.

[X-Files]

Gun battles between suspected drug gang members and troops have left 21 dead in northern Mexico, police say.

 

The violence started when gunmen drove into Villa Ahumada, a farming town in Chihuahua state.

 

They dragged several people - including police officers - out of their homes and killed at least six.

 

Troops then arrived as the scene and 15 people, including one soldier, died in shootouts. Drug-related violence kills thousands every year in Mexico.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7882653.stm

[X-Files]

Mexican troops have detained the police chief and 36 other officers in the resort of Cancun in connection with the murder last week of an ex-army general. Soldiers swooped on the police HQ and took police chief Francisco Velasco to Mexico City for questioning.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7880741.stm

[Paul in Qatar]

As for Mexico, they have been happily exporting their problems out of the country minimizing the effects of their inane policies and almost useless corrupt government.

 

 

How odd. Mexico is exporting their problems yet somehow managed to keep the low-level civil war. The Colombians are exporting their problems, but have retained a mid-level insurgency. Some would figure the Americans are exporting trouble, along with guns and money. But now I know better. It is the fault of the people in those countries. We can do our drugs without feeling guilty.

 

 

Excellent.

[TSJ]

How odd. Mexico is exporting their problems yet somehow managed to keep the low-level civil war. The Colombians are exporting their problems, but have retained a mid-level insurgency. Some would figure the Americans are exporting trouble, along with guns and money. But now I know better. It is the fault of the people in those countries. We can do our drugs without feeling guilty.

Excellent.

 

Sir, Mexico has always been mondo f***ed up. The drug war is just the latest thing there. The Indian insurrection in Chiapas, the easy corruption of the law, the insularity of the elites, the extreme poverty, continuous currency devaluations, it's been there a long, long, time. If serving our vices is all it takes to get them to rip each other to shreds then they need the Magnificent Seven to ride again and provide gentle guidance.

 

LCpl Mord

Edited February 11, 2009 by TSJ

[Harold Jones]

I suppose with less American money going for their pot,* there would be less killing.

 

As a bonus, we could tax legal cannabis. Further with less money going to the Bad Guys in the US and Mexico we could bury fewer policemen and send fewer kids to jail. I simply see no downside.

*Used to be local people in the US smoked locally-grown pot. How the heck does anyone import commercial quantities of of MJ? We are talking tonnage here. But I digress.

 

 

In Mexico it is possible to grow more and more potent pot than the local guys in the US can, and smuggling a ton or two at a time hidden in a truckload of crap from Mexico is fairly trivial. Used to be that people also used locally made meth, but then the Mexican gangs figured out they could make a lot of money with a fairly modest investment, given the corrupt legal system there they were able to make it in bigger batches than US local producers (mostly moter cycle gangs) could and meth is even easier to smuggle than pot. So now most meth comes in from Mexico.

[Paul in Qatar]

Sir, Mexico has always been mondo f***ed up. The drug war is just the latest thing there. The Indian insurrection in Chiapas, the easy corruption of the law, the insularity of the elites, the extreme poverty, continuous currency devaluations, it's been there a long, long, time. If serving our vices is all it takes to get them to rip each other to shreds then they need the Magnificent Seven to ride again and provide gentle guidance.

 

LCpl Mord

 

Oh, so that makes it OK to fund their drug lords and sell them the guns? I missed that fine moral point.

[Hans Engstrom]

Hmmm, I'd rather logically conclude from this that "therefore" we ought to start willing. Say... kill every single Afghani found closer than 10km to the nearest poppy field...

 

Why? There isn't a large scale drug problem in Afghanistan.

[Hans Engstrom]

Oh, you want to end the drig problem in the US, there's an easy way.

 

Execute anyone found in posession of drugs. I guarantee the demand would drop off quite quickly.

[LeoTanker]

Oh, you want to end the drig problem in the US, there's an easy way.

 

Execute anyone found in posession of drugs. I guarantee the demand would drop off quite quickly.

 

Its not that easy.. China more or less does what you suggest allready (and have done so for a long time). The executed guys family even has to pay about $1 for the cartridge spent if they want the boddy back to burry. It doesnt get mouch tougher than that. ...and yet it doesnt seem to help. Use of heavy drugs and HIV/AIDS is spreading about as fast there as in any part in the region. And as the Chinese economy grow stronger it becomes a more interesting target land, insted of just a transit land for the kingpins in A-stran and Burma etc. To cut it short: If you tell a long time heroine addict that "Tomorrow all posession of drugs will equal a one-way ticket to the Huntsville prisson, and a last syringe that will definately prove thatt all that BS about drugs beeing bad for you", infact were true." " Would he he stop then, over night.? Neee.. he wont. For a heroine addict its physically impossible to quit using the drug just that. Same thing wih crack Ive heard. He will make damn sure they shoot the next cop dead who tries to take him in on drugcarges.

 

Hate it if you will, but som addicts need treatment (userd of opium, herioin and warious "medication" that contain Benzodesipin, i.e sleapingpills), since they create physical, not psycological addictions addiction to the human being (just like coffeine and nicotine). But you are free to shoot the rest of the junkies though (amfetamine, meth, cocaine PCP etc etc)

 

Anybody got Mullah Omars phone nr? He and is merry chaps did apretty good job in A-stan in curbing drugproduction. If he is out of job, perhaps you could hire him and some friends to take care of business in Mexico. Just be sure to grant them Contractor status, else they could be confused for Ilegal combatants.

Im sure Mr. Omar wont mind personally decapetateing the cartell bosses. (If you provide him witha a good handycam free of charge, that is).

[Paul in Qatar]

Oh, you want to end the drig problem in the US, there's an easy way.

 

Execute anyone found in posession of drugs. I guarantee the demand would drop off quite quickly.

 

Great, thanks. Got any serious, workable ideas?

 

You seem to be advocating policies that will never be implemented. Perhaps you are barking up the wrong tree?

[alfa]

Comparing cannabis to alcohol, I was just wondering, is not Cannabis a hallucinogen which is more dangerous to use if the user has to drive or use machinery compared to alcohol??

[NickM]

Oh, so that makes it OK to fund their drug lords and sell them the guns? I missed that fine moral point.

 

 

What fine moral point? The Cartels make most of their scratch dealing crank & junk; Don't make an effin' diff what you do about pot IF They ain't dealing in it! As for 'getting our cops killed' well...THEY'RE VIOLENT CRIMINALS THAT'S why they kill cops; and unless you have a better idea in dealing with the 'desire' for drugs to dry up the market like----CRUSHING punishment of users & even more crushing punishment for dealers then your desire for a 'workable solution' ain't gonna help....

 

NM

[DaveDash]

Comparing cannabis to alcohol, I was just wondering, is not Cannabis a hallucinogen which is more dangerous to use if the user has to drive or use machinery compared to alcohol??

 

Not really. I don't know ehether its officially classed as a hallucinogen or not, but it most definitely isn't comparable to LSD etc.

 

IMO It would be considerably more dangerous driving drunk than stoned, not just due to visual imparment, but aggressiveness, reactions, etc. However I'm sure many here would disagree.