Husar Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 (edited) Ah, its nice to hear from the sites token anti-semite/moron... How boring.....the same old "anti-semite" counter attack whenever Israeli propaganda gets questioned....next time try to get a bit more creative and maybe I'll take you a bit more seriously. Since somebody else has already descended to analogies, the less irrational defenders of Hamas (the ones who notice that Hamas has fired thousands of rockets into Israel since the Israelis gave up the Gaza colonies) So killing hundreds of people and destroying their houses is a rational response for you. Edited January 7, 2009 by Husar
DKTanker Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 How boring.....the same old "anti-semite" counter attack whenever Israeli propaganda gets questioned....next time try to get a bit more creative and maybe I'll take you a bit more seriously.Dude, the only one taking you serious is....you!
Gregory Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 Dude, the only one taking you serious is....you! Seconded.
Husar Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 Dude, the only one taking you serious is....you! The feeling is mutual.
DaveDash Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 (edited) The feeling is mutual. 1. Do you feel it is wrong to blockade, and then retaliate, against an elected government to has your destruction in its charter? 2. Do you feel that any retaltion should be in the form of some old biblical measure of 1:1, which would actually lead to a never ending escalation of bloodshed? 3. Do you hold Israel responsible for blocking the border with Egypt? (You are aware Gaza and Egypt shares a border, right? I have to ask, based on the knowledge you have displayed thus far...) 4. You do understand why there is no blockade in the west bank right, and low and behold, no conflict there either? Edited January 7, 2009 by DaveDash
Tzefa Posted January 7, 2009 Author Posted January 7, 2009 Maybe, just maybe, had HamaSS spent the same energy keeping the greenhouses going, instead of firing rockets at civilians, and had used the money given to them over the years to build...oh, I don't, a desalinization plant and a couple of power plants, the current operation, punative or not, wouldn't now be happening. IOW, maybe, just maybe, had HamaSS and its subjects become good neighbors, Egypt would have lifted its blockade of Gaza with hopes that Israel would in the future.Gaza is such a piece of prime real estate it would be a tourist heaven - all they gotta do is open up a bunch of hotels and casinos and stop being genocidal murderers, people would flock there. Instead, they're stealing the aid we send through, and resell it: http://www.ynetnews.com/Ext/Comp/ArticleLa...3651783,00.html (is anyone really surprised?). Release them into the middle of the Negev with no feet and a canteen full of Clorox.Come on King, no feet is already bad enough : ) I'm just hoping the IDF gets done before Obamessiah is sworn in as POTUS on his Koran and pulls US forces from Iraq to support Hamas in Gaza.We'll be done within a week's time, I'm sure. ----------------------- And now for your daily Tzefa report : ) IDF KIA toll grew to 6 today, and 12 more WIA. The IAF destroyed something it termed "a vehicle carrying an anti-aircraft missile launcher" - no idea what it actually was, will try to find out. Most likely a pick-up with a couple of guys with Strelas. It also got a guy named Iman Siam, who was one of the heads of Hamas' rocket program. I'm sure you've heard all about the UNRWA school incident so no point repeating it - except this little tidbit: the previous headmaster was also Islamic Jihad's chief bombmaker! http://www.reuters.com/article/middleeastC...s/idUSL05686115 (link via littlegreenfootballs.com)The UN sure runs a tight ship over there. And finally the traditional photos: http://plasmastik.livejournal.com/428182.html Just as they were getting boring and repetitive, today there's a little treat - some Tavors in action (well, really close to it, anyway). P.S. Oh yea I also wanted to expand a bit on my rant against leading from the front the last time. Leading from the front is a good thing... as long as the officers actually remember to lead, because very often they just descend into fighting in the front... which is what I meant.
DKTanker Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 I'm sure you've heard all about the UNRWA school incident so no point repeating it - except this little tidbit: the previous headmaster was also Islamic Jihad's chief bombmaker! http://www.reuters.com/article/middleeastC...s/idUSL05686115 (link via littlegreenfootballs.com)I heard a report that the IDF reported secondaries. The report was of course dismissed as unconfirmed.
T19 Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 How boring.....the same old "anti-semite" counter attack whenever Israeli propaganda gets questioned....next time try to get a bit more creative and maybe I'll take you a bit more seriously.So killing hundreds of people and destroying their houses is a rational response for you. Yes it is a very rational response to those who aid and abet Terrorists and Gangster scum like HumASS It worked for us in WW2. When the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor, did America give up?? Hell No And in your Ghetto logic, the SS were rounding up and shooting everyone. I suspect the JDF are not rounding up women and children, putting them against a wall and shooting them. If you cant see the difference, you deserve to be ridiculed
crazyinsane105 Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 Ideologies that are based on national virility, power, destruction and supremacy (the German and Japanese ideologies in WWII, various radical Islamists today to include Hamas) are particularly vulnerable to having their ideology discredited by defeat and humiliation. And that I do agree with you. Who's the more popular man the Arab world, Osama bin Laden or Hassan Nasarallah? The answer is easy: the most Al Qaeda has been able to do is conduct suicide attacks in mostly Muslim countries who's victims are mostly Muslim AND they haven't been able to accomplish whatever they say (defeat the US in Iraq, establish an Islamic state across the world, etc. etc.) Hezbullah on the other hand, is a much more smarter group of people who know how to fight and deal in politics wisely. So yes, humiliation is one way to defeat an ideology. But if the Israelis keep on bombing Gaza and making the lives of Palestinians worse every day, all Hamas would say is 'You see, I told you that Israel is a horrible evil country that simply wants to kill us and take our land and blah blah blah.' In the end, unless some miracle happens, I don't see Hamas being defeated. Yes they will be setback in terms of men and equipment, but all that can be replaced. The ideology will still live on and that is Israel's greatest enemy.
DaveDash Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 (edited) But if the Israelis keep on bombing Gaza and making the lives of Palestinians worse every day, all Hamas would say is 'You see, I told you that Israel is a horrible evil country that simply wants to kill us and take our land and blah blah blah.' In the end, unless some miracle happens, I don't see Hamas being defeated. Yes they will be setback in terms of men and equipment, but all that can be replaced. The ideology will still live on and that is Israel's greatest enemy. I understand your point crazyinsane, however the problem is this was happening regardless before the latest offensive. Also look at 2006. Yes Hezbollah is stronger in Lebanon now, but there have been no rocket attacks. Also, stronger means more to lose. Think about that. Edited January 7, 2009 by DaveDash
Rod Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 Interesting that the IDF still uses its old helmet for its soldiers. I would think that by now they would have adopted the newer American-style combat helmet which provides greater coverage. Perhaps they don't want to because it looks too much like the German helmet and it will bring back old memories....
KingSargent Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 QUOTEWhen the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor, did America give up?? Hell No. Gee, I always thought it was the Japanese who bombed Pearl Harbor.
Husar Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 (edited) 1. Do you feel it is wrong to blockade, and then retaliate, against an elected government to has your destruction in its charter? 2. Do you feel that any retaltion should be in the form of some old biblical measure of 1:1, which would actually lead to a never ending escalation of bloodshed? 3. Do you hold Israel responsible for blocking the border with Egypt? (You are aware Gaza and Egypt shares a border, right? I have to ask, based on the knowledge you have displayed thus far...) 4. You do understand why there is no blockade in the west bank right, and low and behold, no conflict there either? 1. The elections were held at the insistence of the "international community" and Hamas were legitimate candidates. As soon as they got elected, a campaign was launched to undermine their rule and cause a revolt of the Gazans against them. When that didn't work, everything was done to provoke a war....the firing of rockets is just a convenient excuse (see quote below). 2. This isn't retaliation but it depends on your point of view I guess. 3. Yes 4. You are aware that Abbass and the PLO are likely to loose out to Hamas in the West Bank as well as a result of all this? It's ironic how Israel at one stage did everything to support Hamas (some say even facilitated it's founding) in order to weaken the PLO. Now Hamas is the devil and the PLO are the "moderates" Always ...look at the bigger picture and don't limit yourself to sensational news headlines ---- On the so called ceasefire and the start of the operation by URI AVNERY “ISRAEL MUST defend itself against the rockets that are terrorizing our Southern towns,” the Israeli spokesmen explained. “Palestinians must respond to the killing of their fighters inside the Gaza Strip,” the Hamas spokesmen declared. As a matter of fact, the cease-fire did not collapse, because there was no real cease-fire to start with. The main requirement for any cease-fire in the Gaza Strip must be the opening of the border crossings. There can be no life in Gaza without a steady flow of supplies. But the crossings were not opened, except for a few hours now and again. The blockade on land, on sea and in the air against a million and a half human beings is an act of war, as much as any dropping of bombs or launching of rockets. It paralyzes life in the Gaza Strip: eliminating most sources of employment, pushing hundreds of thousands to the brink of starvation, stopping most hospitals from functioning, disrupting the supply of electricity and water. Those who decided to close the crossings – under whatever pretext – knew that there is no real cease-fire under these conditions. That is the main thing. Then there came the small provocations which were designed to get Hamas to react. After several months, in which hardly any Qassam rockets were launched, an army unit was sent into the Strip “in order to destroy a tunnel that came close to the border fence”. From a purely military point of view, it would have made more sense to lay an ambush on our side of the fence. But the aim was to find a pretext for the termination of the cease-fire, in a way that made it plausible to put the blame on the Palestinians. And indeed, after several such small actions, in which Hamas fighters were killed, Hamas retaliated with a massive launch of rockets, and – lo and behold – the cease-fire was at an end. Everybody blamed Hamas. Edited January 7, 2009 by Husar
Kenneth P. Katz Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 And if the Israelis try to deal with Hamas (an impossibility), they are perceived as weak-willed losers which confirms that Hamas is on the road to victory. There is no nice solution. But stomping Hamas good and hard will get Sderot and Ashkelon some temporary relief, and serve notice that there is a cost to attacking Israel. I see no better solution. But if the Israelis keep on bombing Gaza and making the lives of Palestinians worse every day, all Hamas would say is 'You see, I told you that Israel is a horrible evil country that simply wants to kill us and take our land and blah blah blah.' In the end, unless some miracle happens, I don't see Hamas being defeated. Yes they will be setback in terms of men and equipment, but all that can be replaced. The ideology will still live on and that is Israel's greatest enemy.
DaveDash Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 1. The elections were held at the insistence of the "international community" and Hamas were legitimate candidates. As soon as they got elected, a campaign was launched to undermine their rule and cause a revolt of the Gazans against them. When that didn't work, everything was done to provoke a war....the firing of rockets is just a convenient excuse (see quote below). 2. This isn't retaliation but it depends on your point of view I guess. 3. Yes 4. You are aware that Abbass and the PLO are likely to loose out to Hamas in the West Bank as well as a result of all this? It's ironic how Israel at one stage did everything to support Hamas (some say even facilitated it's founding) in order to weaken the PLO. Now Hamas is the devil and the PLO are the "moderates" Always ...look at the bigger picture and don't limit yourself to sensational news headlines ---- On the so called ceasefire and the start of the operation by URI AVNERY 1. Fail 2. Fail 3. EPIC Fail. 4. Maybe. We will see. Can't really be bothered continuing the discussion with you because I really doubt it will get anywhere, but at least you've exposed your "reasoning" to the rest of us.
Gregory Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 1. You call Hamas "legitimate candidates". The fact that you consider people who dispatch suicide bombers says a lot about you. 2. No, of course not.. 3. That also says quite a lot about you...4. Not only is he an anti-Zionist, he predicts the future too. Hey, they are playing your song
Gman Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 Release them into the middle of the Negev with no feet and a canteen full of Clorox. I liked the Bond solution from Quantum of Solace - release the scum in the middle of a desert with just a can of motor oil to drink. With a caveat that he guaranteed the guy would try drinking sooner or later... Hmm that works even better,considering what the Middle East is famous for, apart from murderous idiotic Arabic terrorists.
Unreal John Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 Since somebody else has already descended to analogies, the less irrational defenders of Hamas (the ones who notice that Hamas has fired thousands of rockets into Israel since the Israelis gave up the Gaza colonies)So killing hundreds of people and destroying their houses is a rational response for you. It is a rational response. Shooting off the right thumbs of everybody who either sniped across the border or shot off a rocket with a prayer that it would kill an Israeli would be an ideal response, but seems to be, well, a tad on the impractical side. The objective is to stop the shooting from Gaza into Israel. What's your version of a rational response?
crazyinsane105 Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 Also look at 2006. Yes Hezbollah is stronger in Lebanon now, but there have been no rocket attacks. Also, stronger means more to lose. Think about that. Do pardon my ignorance, but I was never aware of exactly how 'hot' the Lebanese-Israeli border was before the 2006 incident. Can somebody provide a link or a source that does state what exactly happened at that border before 2006? I do remember some shootouts between Hezbullah and Israel, but was it consistent and happen on an ordinary basis or was it extremely random?
Husar Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 1. You call Hamas "legitimate candidates". The fact that you consider people who dispatch suicide bombers says a lot about you. So they took part in the elections illegally did they? Not only is he an anti-Zionist, he predicts the future tooFrom anti-semite to anti-zionist.....I'm making progress Hey, they are playing your song Let me guess....the losers in the video are you and your friends? Can't really be bothered continuing the discussion with you because I really doubt it will get anywhere, but at least you've exposed your "reasoning" to the rest of us. Good idea....I wouldn't want you straining yourself too much......your "fail" and "EPIC fail" and especially the geography lesson had me worried for a while......such well thought out arguments have shattered my world view beyond repair .....simply WOW
Gregory Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 So they took part in the elections illegally did they? They did? How naughty of them - not only do they send suicide bombers, but they also take part in elections illegally. From anti-semite to anti-zionist.....I'm making progressNo, still as scummy as you were before. Let me guess....the losers in the video are you and your friends?Shouldn't guess - you might strain your brain cell, and then what would your village do without it's idiot? Good idea....I wouldn't want you straining yourself too much......your "fail" and "EPIC fail" and especially the geography lesson had me worried for a while......such well thought out arguments have shattered my world view beyond repair .....simply WOW Darn, I guess his village IS going to have to start looking...
Rod Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 Didn't Hamas overthrow the regular Palestinian Police and ejected all Fatah members from power in Gaza? Didn't Hamas upon conquering all of Gaza from the Palestinian Authority, begin executing including throwing-off from roofs Fatah members? Didn't Hamas attack and kidnapped Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit not so long after Israel completely withdrew from Gaza (went as far as removing the dead Jews buried in there) while still under the PA administration (before the Hamas coup d'etat)?So according to you Hamas is a legitimate group despite all its actions and intents (driving all Jews to the sea...) because many people voted for them? Gee, Germany also elected Hitler and the Nazis, so by your reasoning the Nazis were a legitimate party despite their ideology which contained minor details such as the extermination of Jews. other inferior races, the disabled and mentally ill. So they took part in the elections illegally did they?
Simon Tan Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 Hamas represents the Gazans. When they shoot Qassams, Grads and mortars, it is in the name of the Gazans. I have yet to see ONE Gazan say that they condemn the firing on Israel on any major media channel. Just one will do. Ergo the Gazans support and approve of the way Hamas conducts business and it is their will that the rocket fire and its consequences continue. We MUST support the Gazans in their self determination. No my friends, this is what Gazans want, resistance against the Zionist oppressor to the last drop of blood (but preferably not of significant Hamas leaders). These are the people who dressed their children as suicide bombers and in Hamas bandannas at hundreds of rallies. These are the poeple who voted Hamas into power. No, it is wrong for us to oppose their will to fight, to sacrifice and to be martyred for the liberation of sacred Palestine.' Why should any righteous Gazan hide? They should take stones and rocks and sharp sticks and fight the Zionist brute. What good is growing old and dying peacefully as a beggar? No, I implore, nay demand that Gaza rise and sweep the Zionist dogs from the territory of Gaza and beyond!
Marek Tucan Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 (edited) The UN school was mentioned, here is footage that apparently captures practical lessons from "Mortar 101" course... http://cz.youtube.com/watch?v=zmXXUOs27lI Edit: And here are nice secondary explosions going on in Mosque...http://cz.youtube.com/watch?v=LCVr7MBhgj0&...feature=related Edited January 7, 2009 by Tuccy
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