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US Army's new uniforms


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Army regs are specific. If you're gonna wear it, wear it right. Troops who have been in combat for who knows how long do get some slack.

 

Heh, the whole point of a beret is that it's a floppy head gear. It's MEANT to be floppy. Starching and shaping it so that it's fitting and sitting in an exact way is like starching and creasing BDUs down the front and around the bloused area. Typical storage of one's Beret when wearing hard headgear was tucked in your BDU blouse or stuffed in your pocket.

 

Ya want stiff headgear? Go with a solid peaked cap.

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Heh, the whole point of a beret is that it's a floppy head gear. It's MEANT to be floppy. Starching and shaping it so that it's fitting and sitting in an exact way is like starching and creasing BDUs down the front and around the bloused area. Typical storage of one's Beret when wearing hard headgear was tucked in your BDU blouse or stuffed in your pocket.

 

Ya want stiff headgear? Go with a solid peaked cap.

 

Ryan, I'm with you. I admit, though, that I still don't see the utility of berets as a hat. A patrol or boonie cover seems most practical to me.

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If they wanted a blue uniform, all they needed to do was take the current green uniform and make it the same color as the current dress blue jacket. Gray or tan shirt, either or is fine.

 

The only problem with the old green uniform was the green shirt, and the green was very bright and not very military. Something more olive (like the USMC) and a khaki shirt.

 

Another option for change would be to base the new uniform on the gray dress used by USMA and some of the other military schools- that generally looks sharp. Maybe that done in blue.

 

I think we're all screwed now. Thankfully, I'll only have to wear it for 3 years.

 

The current green uniform (male and female)

http://www2.una.edu/~rotc/images/uniform/class_a_male.jpg

http://www.miscuse.dk/womeninuniform/usarmy/class_af.jpg

 

The current blue uniform (male and female)

http://www.miscuse.dk/womeninuniform/usarmy/custblue.jpg

 

West Point Cadet Uniforms:

http://www.oknapc.org/USNA%20Rifle-Pistol%...Point_group.jpg

 

VMI Cadet Uniforms

http://www.hightytightyalumni.org/images/1...9-VMICadets.jpg

http://www.vmi.edu/assets/0/18/280/282/c90...3cb7acd3364.jpg

 

Texas A&M Cadet uniforms

http://www.defenselink.mil/dodcmsshare/hom...-7203T-008b.jpg

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Ryan, I'm with you. I admit, though, that I still don't see the utility of berets as a hat. A patrol or boonie cover seems most practical to me.

 

They make sense for AFV crews if your forces use headsets in any context of being on Duty. The US ARMY with it's safety consciousness requires a CVC if you do anything more than look at a tank, so you'll never see US tankers with a Beret and a headset. Personally, I think road marches, moving around the post and general stuff should allow for at least some crew to wear berets. Heck, at least parades when you want to look snazzy. But then how often does US armor parade? Cause we all know an M1 with properly maintained track pads will destroy a road. ;)

 

Of course, the original aspect was that Armoured forces were elite along with airborne over regular infantry. Hence the use of a special type of headgear starting back in the early days of armoured warfare.

 

But then I've said all this before and it's not like anyone views my opinions on the subject with any weight. :rolleyes:

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They make sense for AFV crews if your forces use headsets in any context of being on Duty. The US ARMY with it's safety consciousness requires a CVC if you do anything more than look at a tank, so you'll never see US tankers with a Beret and a headset. Personally, I think road marches, moving around the post and general stuff should allow for at least some crew to wear berets. Heck, at least parades when you want to look snazzy. But then how often does US armor parade? Cause we all know an M1 with properly maintained track pads will destroy a road. ;)

 

Of course, the original aspect was that Armoured forces were elite along with airborne over regular infantry. Hence the use of a special type of headgear starting back in the early days of armoured warfare.

 

But then I've said all this before and it's not like anyone views my opinions on the subject with any weight. :rolleyes:

First time I've heard that. AIUI the first armoured people to use berets were the Royal Tank Regiment, officially from 1924. That was sixteen years before British Commando and Airborne Forces adopted the beret as a badge of "elite" status, IIRC. I don't think elite had anything to do with the RTR adoption of the black beret either. Apparently Elles and Fuller were billeted near some French Chasseurs Alpines in 1918, who wore outsized berets and Elles decided it was a practical form of headgear for clambering around tanks; black was chosen because it didn't show oil stains. See here: http://www.1rtr.net/blackberet.html

 

BillB

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First time I've heard that. AIUI the first armoured people to use berets were the Royal Tank Regiment, officially from 1924. That was sixteen years before British Commando and Airborne Forces adopted the beret as a badge of "elite" status, IIRC. I don't think elite had anything to do with the RTR adoption of the black beret either.

 

Why'd those Elite units pick berets? :rolleyes: I've seen that the folks in the RAC/RTR/Armoured forces were generally referred to as elite because they not only had to fight, but also navigate AND be capable with mechanical beasts and wireless sets. Basically, in a nation that was still moving a lot of things around with horses, anyone who knew one end of an internal combustion engine from another and could take it apart and fix it was considered a cut above. I don't know how much of that is the Armoured Forces folks tooting their own horns or not but it works in a manner of speaking. :)

 

Apparently Elles and Fuller were billeted near some French Chasseurs Alpines in 1918, who wore outsized berets and Elles decided it was a practical form of headgear for clambering around tanks; black was chosen because it didn't show oil stains. See here: http://www.1rtr.net/blackberet.html

 

Yep. And another practical consideration is that headsets work over a beret neatly whereas the peaked caps of the time didn't work at all. So you could have your head cover on while still doing wireless and intercom stuff. It also works well when you've got your forehead pressed up against an episcope or protected vision slit. Peaked caps, not so much.

 

Interestingly, we have a photo in one of our member's collection of books what shows an RSM from a recce unit who's wearing the BLACK coveralls in the '44 time period and a tan beret while everyone else in the unit is wearing Green denim summer tanker coveralls and black berets. The Black tanker coveralls being deemed to be TOO Germanish early in the war.

Edited by rmgill
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Why'd those Elite units pick berets? :rolleyes: I've seen that the folks in the RAC/RTR/Armoured forces were generally referred to as elite because they not only had to fight, but also navigate AND be capable with mechanical beasts and wireless sets. Basically, in a nation that was still moving a lot of things around with horses, anyone who knew one end of an internal combustion engine from another and could take it apart and fix it was considered a cut above. I don't know how much of that is the Armoured Forces folks tooting their own horns or not but it works in a manner of speaking. :)

 

Bit hasty with the rolleyes there I think, Ryan. Commandos and Airborne Forces didn't pick berets, they had them forced upon their largely unwilling rank and file from above, and not without a fair bit of resistance. You are right about the horse being the pre-eminent mode of transport in the UK thru the 1920s and 30s, but I'd be interested to see a reference for the RTR or anyone else using the term "elite" at the time the black beret was adopted in 1924, given that it is a modern term that has been overused to the point it has become virtually meaningless. If anyone was going to attract labels like elite back in those days I should have thought it would have been the likes of the Guards, not a bunch of oily spanner wielders. :)

 

Yep. And another practical consideration is that headsets work over a beret neatly whereas the peaked caps of the time didn't work at all. So you could have your head cover on while still doing wireless and intercom stuff. It also works well when you've got your forehead pressed up against an episcope or protected vision slit. Peaked caps, not so much.

Interestingly, we have a photo in one of our member's collection of books what shows an RSM from a recce unit who's wearing the BLACK coveralls in the '44 time period and a tan beret while everyone else in the unit is wearing Green denim summer tanker coveralls and black berets. The Black tanker coveralls being deemed to be TOO Germanish early in the war.

Inded, that's why the RTR shape their berets both ways instead of just to the right like the rest of the BA. The only slight problem with this is that there were no radio headsets to wear in 1918 when Elles decided the beret was good headgear for tankies, and while I stand to be corrected I don't think there was a widespread need for them to wear radio headsets until the early 1930s either. Ref the last bit, well RSMs have always been a bit of a law unto themselves...

 

BillB

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First time I've heard that. AIUI the first armoured people to use berets were the Royal Tank Regiment, officially from 1924....http://www.1rtr.net/blackberet.html

 

French tankers used them (the small "pyrrenean" type) already during WW1, albeit in a very dark blue colour.

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Bit hasty with the rolleyes there I think, Ryan. Commandos and Airborne Forces didn't pick berets, they had them forced upon their largely unwilling rank and file from above, and not without a fair bit of resistance. You are right about the horse being the pre-eminent mode of transport in the UK thru the 1920s and 30s, but I'd be interested to see a reference for the RTR or anyone else using the term "elite" at the time the black beret was adopted in 1924, given that it is a modern term that has been overused to the point it has become virtually meaningless. If anyone was going to attract labels like elite back in those days I should have thought it would have been the likes of the Guards, not a bunch of oily spanner wielders. :)

 

Well, I guess some of it WAS the Armoured folks tooting their own horns as I said. I want to say that at least one regimental history described the Recce regiment of 15th Scots as an elite formation based on quantity of arms and level of training that they had and the fact that there was SO much cross training. Certainly not on the level of the chaps in RM Commando, but they had a different level of focus, every man was a gunner, had some field craft skills, had basic skills with wireless and was competent around mechanical things if not a Driver Mechanic by qualification and not to mention other things like navigation, etc.

 

No argument that E-lite has been overused. Though, in the context of mechanizing warfare, one would have to say that the armoured formations with as much mechanization and technology in their hands qualifies in some respects as elinte.

 

Inded, that's why the RTR shape their berets both ways instead of just to the right like the rest of the BA. The only slight problem with this is that there were no radio headsets to wear in 1918 when Elles decided the beret was good headgear for tankies, and while I stand to be corrected I don't think there was a widespread need for them to wear radio headsets until the early 1930s either.

 

When did intercoms come into use in the interwar years with the tanks? Seems like I've seen a vickers medium with crew with headsets.

 

Ahh, here we go. Though this is with a wireless. Though I can't quite make out the type. Certainly an early type though.

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I hope these people in pictures are not actual serving soldiers...

 

There was comment on this picture combo on ARRSE that made me laugh even more than I did when I saw the first pic:

 

Even Walts dress better than that. Looks abysmal, the bloke looks like he's done a frontal assault on McDonalds, and the bint just needs to issue a few parking tickets to get into character.

 

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

Sorry about this, but US Army Times have some of the daftest pics possible on this issue... :D

Edited by Sardaukar
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Here's a rough Photoshop retouching I did with the original on the left, and how it should be improved on the right.

 

...

 

To reduce the "baffoon" feel of this uniform, you simply have to size down the ENORMOUS flapping sleeves. Made his arms look short and spindly.

 

Preferrably, the edge of the sleeves should have a thicker fringe/cuff so they don't stick out like pointy wings after being ironed.

 

And, tucking tailored trousers into boots is silly and should be discontinued. Makes his legs look really short.

 

Finally, heavy metal badges hanging off a soft cotton shirt is also unwise.

 

Obviously, this male model looks very out of shape. And the female model really looks really spaced out.

 

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Here's a rough Photoshop retouching I did with the original on the left, and how it should be improved on the right.

 

...

 

To reduce the "baffoon" feel of this uniform, you simply have to size down the ENORMOUS flapping sleeves. Made his arms look short and spindly.

 

Preferrably, the edge of the sleeves should have a thicker fringe/cuff so they don't stick out like pointy wings after being ironed.

 

And, tucking tailored trousers into boots is silly and should be discontinued. Makes his legs look really short.

 

Finally, heavy metal badges hanging off a soft cotton shirt is also unwise.

 

Obviously, this male model looks very out of shape. And the female model really looks really spaced out.

 

 

Actually, this is what my wife suggested too. She said guy's trousers look like they had been shrunk in wash. Would be good idea...original unfortunately blows goats...

Edited by Sardaukar
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Well, I guess some of it WAS the Armoured folks tooting their own horns as I said. I want to say that at least one regimental history described the Recce regiment of 15th Scots as an elite formation based on quantity of arms and level of training that they had and the fact that there was SO much cross training. Certainly not on the level of the chaps in RM Commando, but they had a different level of focus, every man was a gunner, had some field craft skills, had basic skills with wireless and was competent around mechanical things if not a Driver Mechanic by qualification and not to mention other things like navigation, etc.

 

I assume that the reg history elite ref dates back to WW2? If so, that is a bit later than 1924 mate. :) Personally I don't really think cross training in what the BA calls trade training has much to do with being elite, it is just a bread and butter component of competence in role, like having farriers and tack specialists in horsed cav or arty units for example, or trained riggers & parachutists in Para units. Although I did see members of then 1WFR on TV demanding more pay for the guys assigned to crew Warriors on the grounds they were doing all that mechanical stuff in addition to their normal duties when the battalion reroled as Armoured inf in the 1990s tho. :)

 

With ref to the BA, leaving aside that *every* regiment thinks it is elite compared to the rest, I'd say as a rule of thumb the elite thing is conferred by passing an arduous selection test like the airborne P Company, Commando course, SAS selection etc. Altho it is dodgy to extrapolate that back to WW2; it applied to Commandos then - but drop the RM, Ryan, WW2 Commandos were an Army thing to which the RM were relative latecomers, largely because the Admiralty had lots of RM personnel hanging around doing nothing. WW2 Commandos had to pass the course at Achnacarry but there was no equivalent for Airborne Forces as there is now. Quite the opposite, from 1942 onward they started simply assigning standard inf battalions to the parachute role with no choice for the presonnel - only way out was a proven medical problem like dodgy legs or thin skull, get yourself invalided out of the hardening training at the parachute depot, or refuse during parachute training. Hence lots of double barrel titles after the first three parachute battalions like the 7th (Somerset LI) Parachute Battalion, for example.

 

No argument that E-lite has been overused. Though, in the context of mechanizing warfare, one would have to say that the armoured formations with as much mechanization and technology in their hands qualifies in some respects as elinte.

When did intercoms come into use in the interwar years with the tanks? Seems like I've seen a vickers medium with crew with headsets.

 

Ahh, here we go. Though this is with a wireless. Though I can't quite make out the type. Certainly an early type though.

Ref the first bit, see above & I suspect we'll have to disagree on that. I think your view may be biased somewhat by your being a mil spanner monkey in your spare time! :P :) Ref the intercoms bit, I have no idea and was going to ask you. I mentioned 1931 in my last because they produced a purpose-built command version of the Vickers equipped with radios then, but I have no idea when intercoms came into service for internal crew comms and didn't come up with anything via a quick trawl thru my books and Google either. :(

 

BillB

[edited for crap spelling]

Edited by BillB
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French tankers used them (the small "pyrrenean" type) already during WW1, albeit in a very dark blue colour.

Thanks for that, I didn't know & therefore stand corrected. :)

 

BillB

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I remember seeing a small helmet that fit under a tanker's beret (W. German, I believe). Was this useful head protection, and did other countries use something similar?

Dunno about the Bundeswehr, but the WW2 era Heer had a hard crash liner that fitted under those outsize berets they wore in the early years of the war. Dunno how effective they were but the fact that the beret & liner were dropped in 1940 in favour of chip hats or soft peaked caps suggests that it wasn't felt to be of much use. Incidentally the French also issued a steel liner for wear under the kepi in the early stages of WW1, which was replaced by the Adrian helmet from 1915.

 

BillB

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Dunno about the Bundeswehr, but the WW2 era Heer had a hard crash liner that fitted under those outsize berets they wore in the early years of the war. Dunno how effective they were but the fact that the beret & liner were dropped in 1940 in favour of chip hats or soft peaked caps suggests that it wasn't felt to be of much use. Incidentally the French also issued a steel liner for wear under the kepi in the early stages of WW1, which was replaced by the Adrian helmet from 1915.

 

BillB

 

Thanks, BillB. The liner that I saw was being sold by Sportsman's Guide as mil surplus. The blurb just said 'German', but didn't mention dates. It seems like a nice idea, but if reality says "no", then...

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Pinks and Greens. How f@#$ing hard is it for you rocks with lips on the uniform board to understand?!?!

 

Some days I sit in my sterile, feminized office and dream about being back in the Army. And then I see the costumes inflicted on GIs over and over. . .

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I still think this is a waste of time when we have much more important things to spend our money on but oh well...

 

So this is replacing the white uniforms too I see. Was there really a point behind the whole white Army uniforms? They seemed to me like something of an unneeded extra, they reintroduced those after World War II right?

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