9 U.S. troops reported killed in Afghanistan

[Old Tanker]

Mort Kondracke a national pol. writer stated today that the CIA has informed PM Jolani(sp) of Pakistan that ISI types were involved in Bhutto's assassination plot.

 

First I've heard of this accusation and it's out in the public.

[Vijay Reddy]

Mort Kondracke a national pol. writer stated today that the CIA has informed PM Jolani(sp) of Pakistan that ISI types were involved in Bhutto's assassination plot.

 

First I've heard of this accusation and it's out in the public.

 

Makes perfect sense to me. Think about this:

 

The ISI is the praetorian guard. It is the primary enforcer for the establishment. When Benazir Bhutto came back to Pakistan, she promised three things:

 

1. An all out campaign to eliminate the Taliban

2. Cooperation with the US on A.Q.Khan including a possible handover of the man to international investigators

3. A reshuffle of the security establishment and defence budgets with everything audited by the elected parliament

 

She was warned by hardliners on the outside to not mess with the "core interests" of Pakistan. She didn't back off and paid the price.

 

Now her husband Mr. Zardari just tried a coup against the ISI by trying to bring it under the ministry of the Interior as opposed to the army chief. But the Army Chief Kayani called Zardari at 2 AM and to warn him that he might be forced to launch a coup. The government issued a backtrack order at 3 AM.

 

If I were Zardari, I'd be buying life insurance and visiting places I want to before my life ends. He will not last long. No wonder he spends most of his time in Dubai. Another thing to watch out for would be a major fire in some buildings in Islamabad. The ISI would not want to risk any papers falling into US hands, especially concerning nuclear proliferation.

[Vijay Reddy]

Let's say you are the genius who heads the ISI. Your years of playing both sides appear to be ending and you have been caught in the act and called on it by the one power you dare not ignore.

 

What a predicament!

 

Obviously, you use your sources in the media to plant stories. Such as this one. According to this, the "Come to Jesus" meeting the US bigwigs had with the Pakistanis was misreported. Actually, its the mighty Pakistanis who warned the US to stop supporting terrorists.

 

US told not to back terrorism against Pakistan

 

Tuesday, August 05, 2008

 

By Kamran Khan

 

KARACHI: Pakistan has complained to the United States military leadership and the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) that Washington’s policy towards terrorism in Pakistan was inconsistent with America’s declared commitment to the war against terror.

 

Impeccable official sources have said that strong evidence and circumstantial evidence of American acquiescence to terrorism inside Pakistan was outlined by President Pervez Musharraf, Chief of Army Staff General Ashfaq Pervez Kayani and Director General Inter Services Intelligence (ISI) Lt. Gen. Nadeem Taj in their separate meetings with US Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff Admiral Michael Mullen and CIA Deputy Director Stephen R Kappes on July 12 in Rawalpindi.

 

 

snip

 

One such precise piece of information was made available to the CIA on May 24 when Baitullah Mehsud drove to a remote South Waziristan mountain post in his Toyota Land Cruiser to address the press and returned back to his safe abode. The United States military has the capacity to direct a missile to a precise location at very short notice as it has done close to 20 times in the last few years to hit al-Qaeda targets inside Pakistan.

 

Pakistani official have long been intrigued by the presence of highly encrypted communications gear with Baitullah Mehsud. This communication gear enables him to collect real-time information on Pakistani troop movement from an unidentified foreign source without being intercepted by Pakistani intelligence.

 

 

There you have it folks. The Pakistanis have lost patience. They have confronted the Americans on why the US is supporting Taliban terrorists.

 

They have warned you. Beware!

[Tim the Tank Nut]

good grief,

these people are idiots. Cunning-but still idiots

 

Probably Iranian commo gear. They seem to have stepped it up against Israel.

[Vijay Reddy]

Tim,

 

Despite the ridiculous conspiracy theories, I see a Pakistani concession in the making. The tone in that article, at the end, sounded conciliatory.

 

So what to make if this claim that "Some Taliban leaders are US agents"? My hunch is that this planted article is the first step in preparing the Pakistani public for a selective campaign against some Taliban leaders such as Baitullah Mehsud. In any closed society or cult, if you want to bring someone down, you don't go after him directly. You first "prove" that they guy is a traitor and pretty soon everyone will call for his head or even better - lynch him.

 

I see the ground prepared by the ISI to first blame some Taliban leaders as "enemy agents" and then kill them or make them disappear without raising public ire. I bet that the Pakistanis are hoping that the US will back off once a few sacrificial lambs are offered and the jihadist tap is temporarily stopped.

[Josh]

I see the ground prepared by the ISI to first blame some Taliban leaders as "enemy agents" and then kill them or make them disappear without raising public ire. I bet that the Pakistanis are hoping that the US will back off once a few sacrificial lambs are offered and the jihadist tap is temporarily stopped.

 

I think that would be correct. But I suspect that things in A-stan will have to cool down (less casualties) and the ISI will have to be not caught directly for things to really settle down.

 

Another question: now that the US has come right out and stated publicly that the ISI is responsible, what is India's reaction? They had already accused the ISI, but having the US do it as well means they won't be interpritted as just prejudicedly anti-Pakistan in their response. Will Indian react?

[Vijay Reddy]

jua,

 

The fact that the US has to resort to publicly calling out the Pakistanis on the ISI is itself an indicator that not much can be done about it. US, UK, many European countries have long abandoned the "suspended disbelief" of Pakistan's culpability in private. This is kinda the next step.

 

At the end of the day, talk is cheap and action is what that matters. From reading the opinion makers in India, the best Indians can hope for is a gradual but steady restriction of space for Pakistanis to carry out their jihadist activities by proxy. What does this mean:

 

1. US, EU and friendly countries should work to identify specific Pakistani individuals and companies that are ISI conduits for jihad-related financing activities. This is already being done. The EU/US terrorist list is virtually identical to the Indian one. The UK link is still active though because the Brits seem to have cut a deal with the ISI - "We'll not press you too much on activities that don't directly threaten us if you promise to shut down any cells aiming to attack the UK"

 

2. US and EU should bring pressure on the UAE and Saudis to stop or constrain another key money and manpower link. This part needs a lot more action because of the relative power of the Saudis and the Gulf sheikhdoms

 

3. Constant diplomatic pressure needs to be maintained on Pakistani leaders. This means that everytime Musharraf or their PM goes to say Sweden to ask for weapons systems or aid, the first message should be - "Sure, we'll look into it, but BTW what about this xyz group that you promised to take care of?"

 

When the risks of an open conflict are judged too high, the best we can hope for is containment and constant vigilance.

[Paul G.]

Back on the OP.

 

If true this is rather unfortunate.

 

According to an American press release, the air strike followed a mortar attack on US forces. The Americans claim that the two trucks they destroyed were trailed from the scene of that attack. The Afghans say the two trucks were filled with not only civilians, but civilians that had very good relations with the Americans.

 

One of the men killed (along with his wife, son and two grandchildren) was a man named Sonkara. Qourbon says that Sonkara is the one who gave up land so that US forces could build the outpost called Bella (the Afghans call the area “Bayla”).

 

Another man killed in the group was called Namatullah. Namatullah spoke good English and worked as a doctor in the Afghan clinic next to the US base at Bella. A second doctor and two other clinic workers also died. In all 17 Afghans were confirmed killed that day.

 

“That action really had a negative effect on the people,” said Qourbon. “The village elders asked the Americans not to come and they came anyway.”

 

http://www.battlefieldtourist.com/content/

Edited August 6, 2008 by Paul G.

[Vijay Reddy]

It's now on the record as well.

 

Link

 

Pakistani intelligence complicit in Afghan violence: US general

 

11 hours ago

 

WASHINGTON (AFP) — The top US commander in Afghanistan has publicly accused Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence Directorate of "some complicity" over time with militant groups fomenting violence in Afghanistan.

 

Lieutenant General David McKiernan's comment in an interview with CNN on Thursday was the most unambiguous statement yet on the matter by a senior US military officer, reflecting growing US frustration over the insurgent violence in Afghanistan.

 

"Do I believe that the Pakistani government must do more? I absolutely do. Do I believe there has been some complicity on the part of organizations such as the ISI over time in Pakistan, I believe there has been," McKiernan said.

 

His comments coincided with a political crisis in Islamabad where the ruling coalition said it will seek the impeachment of President Pervez Musharraf, the country's former military leader and long-time US ally.

 

And it follows reports that the CIA's number two, Steve Kappes, recently confronted the Pakistanis with evidence of ISI involvement with an insurgent network led by Jalaluddin Haqqani.

 

The New York Times reported last week that intercepted communications provided the Americans with clear evidence that the ISI was involved in a July 7 suicide bombing at the Indian embassy that killed about 60 people.

 

It has long been assumed by US officials that elements of the ISI has maintained ties with the Taliban and other militant groups it helped create to fight the Soviets in Afghanistan and the Indians in Kashmir.

 

But the relationship has come under greater scrutiny over the past two years as the militant threat has grown in the tribal areas, and fighters have poured out of those safe havens into Afghanistan.

 

"I don't believe we can get to the right outcome in Afghanistan as long as these militant sanctuaries exist across the border," McKiernan said.

 

"We've seen the increased numbers of foreign fighters in eastern and southern Afghanistan this year, and there is an expectation that the leadership in Pakistan will do something about these militant sanctuaries in their country," he said.

 

McKiernan said Al-Qaeda is heavily involved in the insurgency.

 

"Al-Qaeda provides financing, they help recruit fighters, they help with logistics, command and control, intelligence for the Taliban," he said.

[Colin]

Can the US step up it's aerial presences, with more UAV's over the NWF with only a couple minutes warning of a shot? Also have more fighters "stray" over the area to flex some muscle without cranking the tensions up to high.

Edited August 9, 2008 by Colin

[Archie Pellagio]

Can the US step up it's aerial presences, with more UAV's over the NWF with only a couple minutes warning of a shot? Also have more fighters "stray" over the area to flex some muscle without cranking the tensions up to high.

 

Part of the problem is the population across the border is completely, 100% unfriendly.

Daving Ding Chavez and Co sneaking around in larger numbers going deep could really end badly, as it is eyes can be turned, I can't imagine a greater US / NATO involvment could go as smoothly though.

[crazyinsane105]

Can the US step up it's aerial presences, with more UAV's over the NWF with only a couple minutes warning of a shot? Also have more fighters "stray" over the area to flex some muscle without cranking the tensions up to high.

 

Most of the intrusions by UAVs are detected by Pakistani radar installments.

[chino]

Deleted.

Edited August 10, 2008 by chino

[JWB]

Who is a danger to world peace besides the murderous Islamics?:

 

An ignorant, blundering America that is starting wars with these murderous Islamics that they have absolutely nil chance of winning.

 

I remember those newspaper articles with illustrations of how cruise missiles would enter cave complex to "get" the talibans (read: bin Laden). LOL.

 

Fighting and dying for foolish leaders...

That could be easily construed as you claiming the USA attacking itself on 9/11. Care to explain before you get banned?

[TSJ]

Most of the intrusions by UAVs are detected by Pakistani radar installments.

 

How do you know this? And it's not an "intrusion" when Pakistan receives assistance from America. It's legitimate coverage for self defense. It's all bought and paid for.

Edited August 9, 2008 by TSJ

[chino]

That could be easily construed as you claiming the USA attacking itself on 9/11. Care to explain before you get banned?

 

Ha ha.

 

Go ahead.

[Vijay Reddy]

Can the US step up it's aerial presences, with more UAV's over the NWF with only a couple minutes warning of a shot? Also have more fighters "stray" over the area to flex some muscle without cranking the tensions up to high.

 

I think this is possible. But if you want fast results, what is needed is an Afghan equivalent of the night of the long knives. The US can use Afghan humint and its own assets in the sky and on the ground to pinpoint key leaders like Baitullah Mehsud, Jalaluddin and Siraj Haqqani, key Quetta Shura commanders and more and in one shot get them all. That would set the Taliban back by years.

 

I read an NY Times report that the US could take out these baddies but has chosen not to do so because it would essentially end even the facade of cooperation by the Pakistanis.

[Old Tanker]

Can the US step up it's aerial presences, with more UAV's over the NWF with only a couple minutes warning of a shot? Also have more fighters "stray" over the area to flex some muscle without cranking the tensions up to high.

 

 

It's been happening for at nearly a year as far as I can figure out.

Somebody is getting Tip money as a UAV needs to be pointed in the exact direction.

How much did somebody pocket when Adam Gadahn seemed to go on a permament vacation ?

[Old Tanker]

Who is a danger to world peace besides the murderous Islamics?:

 

An ignorant, blundering America that is starting wars with these murderous Islamics that they have absolutely nil chance of winning.

 

I remember those newspaper articles with illustrations of how cruise missiles would enter cave complex to "get" the talibans (read: bin Laden). LOL.

 

Fighting and dying for foolish leaders...

 

 

Your attempt to start a flame war failed in the Darfur thread so now you are trying it here.

 

Duh ! I'm impressed.

[TSJ]

delete

Edited August 10, 2008 by TSJ

[JimC]

How do you know this? And it's not an "intrusion" when Pakistan receives assistance from America. It's legitimate coverage for self defense. It's all bought and paid for.

"Intrusions" beyond the allowed UAV operating air space.

[MODERATOR]

Chino

 

Your comments in Post # 138 and follow up in Post # 141 add nothing to the discussion, are needlessly provocative and thus breach this Grate Sight's ROEs; MODERATOR also notes that this is not the first time you have been warned about this kind of thing. You are therefore warned amend your behaviour or you will be ha ha-ing yourself into a ban.

 

MODERATOR

[chino]

Chino

 

Your comments in Post # 138 and follow up in Post # 141 add nothing to the discussion, are needlessly provocative and thus breach this Grate Sight's ROEs; MODERATOR also notes that this is not the first time you have been warned about this kind of thing. You are therefore warned amend your behaviour or you will be ha ha-ing yourself into a ban.

 

MODERATOR

 

Offensive post deleted. I just re-read my own post and regret the choice of words.

 

I am against the way the war is being conducted, and feel angry for the loss of lives among serving men. But it all came out wrong and sounded extremely insensitive especially when the thread is titled "9 US troops killed in Afghanistan".

 

You guys are right to feel offended. Apologies and RIP to the fighting men.

[MODERATOR]

Offensive post deleted. I just re-read my own post and regret the choice of words.

 

I am against the way the war is being conducted, and feel angry for the loss of lives among serving men. But it all came out wrong and sounded extremely insensitive especially when the thread is titled "9 US troops killed in Afghanistan".

 

You guys are right to feel offended. Apologies and RIP to the fighting men.

 

Thank you for your compliance.

 

MODERATOR

[FALightFighter]

I am against the way the war is being conducted, and feel angry for the loss of lives among serving men.

 

I recently returned from my third tour (1 Afghanistan, 2 Iraq). My thoughts on your comment are put very well by a recent cartoon by MSG/SFC Mark Baker, called "PVT Murphy's Law". In the cartoon, a civilian comes up to PVT Murphy and thanks him for his service. PVT Murphy's response is "Don't thank me, I chose the profession."

 

I don't want you to be angry that my brothers-in-arms have been killed, and I don't want overt "thanks" or "support" with words and yellow ribbons and bumper stickers. What I want from the civlian population is resolve to continue to fight this fight in Iraq and Afghanistan, because I don't want to fight it in the US, where it will effect my family. I want support to political leaders who will provide the resources, guidance and resolve to do this, and to continuing preparing the armed forces to do this as long as required. And I want understanding that the politically correct crap forced on us by social engineers hurts readiness in the units manned by the few (what, .3%, or some ridiculous small number like that) that are bearing the brunt of protecting this nation by fighting a war, while our nation is at the mall.

 

I didn't know any of the 9 heroes killed in this engagement, but the airborne community is small, and very close knit. I served in the area concerned during my last tour. I also know, some as personal friends and many more as professional colleagues, many of the leadership of this unit. I can't pretend to speak for them, but I'll bet their sentiments are probably pretty close to mine.