Brigade reflagging info

[FALightFighter]

I had a look at the US Army's entry on wikipedia, and by my count there are roughly 45-odd brigade-sized units on the ORBAT. At best, each brigade has four infantry battalions; each battalion has four rifle companies; each company has three rifle platoons. So, at a guess, the US Army has no more than 2160 rifle platoons (because there are battalions with three companies, and brigades with only two infantry battalions). As for the USMC, well, they've got three MEFs, and by a similar reckoning that makes for 36 battalions, so that's 432 rifle platoons.

 

I will assume that "infantry squad" includes both rifle squads and weapons squads.

 

Each IBCT rifle company (6 per BCT) consists of 9 rifle squads and 3 weapons squads (12 total). There are currently 18 IBCTs, so 18 x 6 x 12 = 1296.

 

Each HBCT rifle company (4 per BCT) consists of 9 rifle squads. There are currently 18 HBCTs, so 18 x 4 x 9 = 648.

 

Each SBCT rifle company (9 per BCT) consists of 9 rifle squads and 3 weapons squads (12 total). There are currently 6 SBCTs, so 6 x 9 x 12 = 648.

 

Each Ranger rifle company (12 total) consists of 9 rifle squads and 3 weapons squads (12 total), for 144 squads.

 

So, the active Army has a total of 2736 infantry rifle and weapons squads. I didn't count infantry reconnaissance squads (in infantry battalion recon platoons or light recon squadrons dismounted recon troops), mortar squads (in infantry battalion mortar platoons, light infantry company mortar sections, and cavalry troops) or AT squads (in infantry battalion weapons companies). Pathfinder teams and LRS teams are also manned by infantrymen, but not organized as squads, so not counted, either.

Edited to add- There are also sniper squads (in infantry battalions, dismounted recon troops, and maybe combined arms battalions). I put them in the same category as the recon squads above.

Edited April 15, 2008 by FALightFighter

[FALightFighter]

My USMC knowledge is not as good as my US Army info, but:

 

There are 24 USMC infantry battalions- each composed of 3 companies. Each company is composed of 3 rifle platoons, with 3 squads each, and a weapons platoon, composed of a mortar section (with 3 squads) and machine gun section (with 3 squads). To be fair, I'll count USMC machine gun squads, since I counted US Army weapons squads. I know that they aren't exactly the same, but the differences are largely accounted for by the USMC Javelins, which are consolidated at battalion level. So, each USMC rifle company has 12 squads.

 

So, 24 x 3 x 12 = 864 squads.

 

The USMC infantry battalion also has a weapons company, with 8 mortar squads, 8 heavy machinegun squads, and AT element with TOWs and Javelins (I'm not sure exactly how this element is organized). Although they're manned by infantrymen, I didn't count them in the US Army post, so I'll omit them here. Same goes for the scout/sniper platoon in the HSC.

The USMC also has LAR and Recon battalions that are manned by infantrymen, IIRC, but I'm not sure, so I won't count them.

[Ariete!]

Fascinating exercise but all you're proving is that the US armed forces are Air-Force centric.

 

Given current strategic/geographic relaities that kinda makes sense. it mirrors the fact that, by continetal standards, the Brits used to have a huge navy and a tiny army.

 

All that said, if the US wants to play World Policeman , it does need more boots on the ground

[BP]

That's some great research guys!

[shrike6]

Looks like theres been a few long awaited reflaggings happening over the last month.

 

4/1CD became 4/1AD on March 5th

http://www.fbmonitor.com/monitor/2008/03ma...0608_index.html

 

4/4ID became 4/1CD on March 7th

http://www.hood.army.mil/1stcavdiv/news/2008/mar/mar22.htm

 

2/2ID became 4/4ID on April 9th

http://www.hood.army.mil/4id/main/whatshot...20Msg_09Apr.pdf

[Guest Legomand]

Why??

 

Why is it that the US Army keeps reflagging it's Brigades??

 

I could understand if they were shutting down a division that they might want to keep historical "important" units active (the same thing has happened with the Danish Army) but why, this shuffling around of individual brigades?

 

I just don't get it... But maybe that's just me...

[WRW]

Why??

 

Why is it that the US Army keeps reflagging it's Brigades??

 

I could understand if they were shutting down a division that they might want to keep historical "important" units active (the same thing has happened with the Danish Army) but why, this shuffling around of individual brigades?

 

I just don't get it... But maybe that's just me...

 

 

I find it amusing and confusing - so much for tradition

[FALightFighter]

Why??

 

Why is it that the US Army keeps reflagging it's Brigades??

 

I could understand if they were shutting down a division that they might want to keep historical "important" units active (the same thing has happened with the Danish Army) but why, this shuffling around of individual brigades?

 

I just don't get it... But maybe that's just me...

 

The current round of reflagging is based on the expansion from 33 to 48 BCTs. That approx 50% increase is enough to warrant redesignating to keep units together in some sort of order.

 

The last round of reflaggings was part of the post-Cold War drawdown from 18 divisions to 10.

 

The round before that (mid=80s) applied to battalions, as they tried to implement some semblance of a regimental system- BCTs stayed relatively intact, AFAIK.

 

Before that, i don't know.

[BP]

I find it amusing and confusing - so much for tradition

 

It's like a scene out of Animal House.

 

"From now on, your Delta Tau Chi Army name will be Pinto, Third Brigade. . ."

Edited April 17, 2008 by BP

[BP]

delete

Edited April 17, 2008 by BP

[Ken Estes]

My USMC knowledge is not as good as my US Army info, but:

 

....

 

I think you have it right, but have missed the reactivation of the three infantry battalions of the 9th Marine Regt, w/o the Regt being reactivated. The three bns are part of the expansion of the USMC to 199K and I don't know that all three have yet stood up, nor the split between 1st & 2nd Mar Divs. I drove by one of them at Camp Lejeune last month.

 

The Recon and LAR Bns are manned by infantry MOS personnel, but at the pointy end are forming scout teams. There is no reason not to count mortarmen as infantrymen when they are the 60mm/81mm type, being used routinely as riflemen in Iraq at moment's notice. But maybe you want to call the number of rifle squads and leave out all forms of crew served weapons as measures of effect.

[Danno]

Looks like the 4th Brigade Combat Team of the 1st Cavalry Division at Fort Bliss reflagged in March as a 1st Armored Division Brigade. Does anybody know what the new designations the component units in brigade are?(Not the 5th brigade, 1st Armored Division)

[WRW]

Looks like the 4th Brigade Combat Team of the 1st Cavalry Division at Fort Bliss reflagged in March as a 1st Armored Division Brigade. Does anybody know what the new designations the component units in brigade are?(Not the 5th brigade, 1st Armored Division)

 

aaaaaaaaaaargh - they are doing it again, make them stop

[shrike6]

Looks like the 4th Brigade Combat Team of the 1st Cavalry Division at Fort Bliss reflagged in March as a 1st Armored Division Brigade. Does anybody know what the new designations the component units in brigade are?(Not the 5th brigade, 1st Armored Division)

 

4th Brigade, 1st Armored Division (ex 4th Brigade, 1st Cavalry Division)

 

2-13th Cavalry

2-34th Armor

2-6th Infantry

2-29th Field Artillery

123rd Brigade Support Battalion

4-1AD STB

http://www.cascom.army.mil/odct/Documents/...g_26_Sep_05.ppt

 

5th Brigade 1st AD is the FCS testing brigade and also at Ft Bliss

[TonyE]

aaaaaaaaaaargh - they are doing it again, make them stop

 

Not until they have brought back the 2nd Dragoons!!!!

[WRW]

4th Brigade, 1st Armored Division (ex 4th Brigade, 1st Cavalry Division)

 

2-13th Cavalry

2-34th Armor

2-6th Infantry

2-29th Field Artillery

123rd Brigade Support Battalion

4-1AD STB

http://www.cascom.army.mil/odct/Documents/...g_26_Sep_05.ppt

 

5th Brigade 1st AD is the FCS testing brigade and also at Ft Bliss

 

Is this the Higlanders renamed

[FALightFighter]

Is this the Higlanders renamed

 

4/1 AD is the Highlanders. They reflagged form 4/1 CD, Long Knife.

 

The transition goes like this- 4/1CD becomes 4/1AD, so 4/4ID can become 4/1CD, so 2/2ID can become 4/4ID, so 5/2ID can become 2/2ID.

 

This puts the 4/1AD at FT Bliss (the future home of the 1AD), 4/1CD at FT Hood (with the HQ and other 3 BCTs in the 1CD), 4/4ID at FT Carson (with the other 3 BCTs in the division), and 2/2 ID at Lewis (with 3/2ID and 4/2ID). In the end, it sort of makes sense.

[WRW]

4/1 AD is the Highlanders. They reflagged form 4/1 CD, Long Knife.

 

The transition goes like this- 4/1CD becomes 4/1AD, so 4/4ID can become 4/1CD, so 2/2ID can become 4/4ID, so 5/2ID can become 2/2ID.

 

This puts the 4/1AD at FT Bliss (the future home of the 1AD), 4/1CD at FT Hood (with the HQ and other 3 BCTs in the 1CD), 4/4ID at FT Carson (with the other 3 BCTs in the division), and 2/2 ID at Lewis (with 3/2ID and 4/2ID). In the end, it sort of makes sense.

 

Ok - is this correct 4 HBCT 1 AD Long Knives' is no more -

 

4 HBCT 1 CD Highlanders has 2/7, 1/9, 2/12 and 5/82

 

I am totally confused with 2 ID - I have 1 HBCT 'Iron Bde' 2 SBCT 'Strikeforce' 3 SBCT 'Arrowhead' and 4 SBCT with no name

 

is that ok

[Rubberneck]

Despite what I said earlier, I saw something in the past month that showed a couple more seperate BCT lineage popping up...

 

I don't remember what BCT's they are...maybe the 177th (former OPFOR at NTC before 11ACR)

[Hellfish6]

Despite what I said earlier, I saw something in the past month that showed a couple more seperate BCT lineage popping up...

 

I don't remember what BCT's they are...maybe the 177th (former OPFOR at NTC before 11ACR)

 

IIRC a lot of USAR units got reflagged to brigades, the 177th being one of the new designations.

[FALightFighter]

Ok - is this correct 4 HBCT 1 AD Long Knives' is no more -

 

4 HBCT 1 CD Highlanders has 2/7, 1/9, 2/12 and 5/82

 

I am totally confused with 2 ID - I have 1 HBCT 'Iron Bde' 2 SBCT 'Strikeforce' 3 SBCT 'Arrowhead' and 4 SBCT with no name

 

is that ok

 

NO- 4 HBCT, 1st Armor Division "Highlanders" was planned to consist of the following 6 battalions: 2-13th Cavalry, 2-34th Armor, 2-6th Infantry, 2-29th Field Artillery, 123rd Brigade Support Battalion, 4-1AD STB. I have not seen these units listed in anything SINCE the activation of the BCT took place, but have not reason to think that they didn't follow the plan. It is located at Fort Bliss, TX, and was redesignated from 4/1 CD (Long Knife) around 4-5 Mar. Before that, the BCT did not exist (although the aviation BDE was sometimes referred to as 4th BDE).

 

4 HBCT, 1st Cavalry Division "Long Knife" consists of 1-9 CAV (Armored Recon Squadron), 2-7 CAV (CAB), 2-12 CAV (CAB), 5-82 FA, 4th BSTB and 27th BSB. It is based at Fort Hood, TX, and was redesignated from 4/4ID (Cobra) around 8 Mar.

 

2 ID currently consists of 1 HBCT "Iron" (Korea), 3 SBCT "Arrowhead", 4 SBCT and 5 SBCT (last 3 all at FT Lewis)- I don't know the nicknames for the 4th and 5th BCTs. 2 IBCT is planned to redesignate to 4/4ID (remain at FT Carson) so that 5/2ID can redesignate to 2/2ID (remain at FT Lewis). Those 2 designations may have already happened, but I can't find it anywhere. The Fort Carson and Fort Lewis websites still list the current organizations and doesn't mention the re-designations.

[shrike6]

NO- 4 HBCT, 1st Armor Division "Highlanders" was planned to consist of the following 6 battalions: 2-13th Cavalry, 2-34th Armor, 2-6th Infantry, 2-29th Field Artillery, 123rd Brigade Support Battalion, 4-1AD STB. I have not seen these units listed in anything SINCE the activation of the BCT took place, but have not reason to think that they didn't follow the plan. It is located at Fort Bliss, TX, and was redesignated from 4/1 CD (Long Knife) around 4-5 Mar. Before that, the BCT did not exist (although the aviation BDE was sometimes referred to as 4th BDE).

 

4 HBCT, 1st Cavalry Division "Long Knife" consists of 1-9 CAV (Armored Recon Squadron), 2-7 CAV (CAB), 2-12 CAV (CAB), 5-82 FA, 4th BSTB and 27th BSB. It is based at Fort Hood, TX, and was redesignated from 4/4ID (Cobra) around 8 Mar.

 

2 ID currently consists of 1 HBCT "Iron" (Korea), 3 SBCT "Arrowhead", 4 SBCT and 5 SBCT (last 3 all at FT Lewis)- I don't know the nicknames for the 4th and 5th BCTs. 2 IBCT is planned to redesignate to 4/4ID (remain at FT Carson) so that 5/2ID can redesignate to 2/2ID (remain at FT Lewis). Those 2 designations may have already happened, but I can't find it anywhere. The Fort Carson and Fort Lewis websites still list the current organizations and doesn't mention the re-designations.

 

These are the brigades that have redesignated already:

4/1CD became 4/1AD on March 5th

http://www.fbmonitor.com/monitor/2008/03ma...0608_index.html

 

4/4ID became 4/1CD on March 7th

http://www.hood.army.mil/1stcavdiv/news/2008/mar/mar22.htm

 

2/2ID became 4/4ID on April 8th

http://www.hood.army.mil/4id/main/whatshot...20Msg_09Apr.pdf

 

2nd BCT, 2nd ID Reflags to 4th BCT, 4th ID

April 4, 2008 FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

Release 08-031

Media Opportunity

2nd BCT, 2nd ID Reflags to 4th BCT, 4th ID

FORT CARSON, Colo. — The 2nd Brigade Combat Team, 2nd Infantry Division, is hosting a reflagging ceremony April 8 at 2 p.m. on Fort Carson’s Manhart Field to transition to the 4th Brigade Combat Team, 4th Infantry Division.

The “Strike Force” Soldiers will remove their “Indian Head” Division shoulder patch insignia and replace it with the “Iron Horse” insignia of the 4th ID. The 4th ID’s motto is “Steadfast and Loyal.”

With the completion of the 2nd BCT, 2nd ID’s reflagging, the 4th ID will have three of its brigades stationed at Fort Carson. The remaining brigade (1st BCT) and headquarters element are currently deployed to Iraq.

Interested media should R.S.V.P. to the Fort Carson Public Affairs Office by calling (719) 526-4143 by 4 p.m. April 7 for the meeting time and location.

For more information contact the Fort Carson Public Affairs Office at

(719) 526-4143. After hours please contact the 24-hour Emergency Operation Center at 526-5500 and ask for the On-Call Public Affairs Officer.

http://search.carson.army.mil/pao-news/press-releases/#788

 

5/2ID is still 5/2ID at this time.

 

The Nicknames are as follows:

 

4/1AD are the "Highlanders"

4/1CD are the "Long Knives"

4/2ID are the "Dragoon Raiders"

5/2ID are the "Destroyers"

4/4ID are the "Cobras"

Edited April 29, 2008 by shrike6

[WRW]

Not until they have brought back the 2nd Dragoons!!!!

 

technically they really are Dragoons - they can fight mounted or on foot - so Yes bring back Dragoons

[Guest aevans]

I think you have it right, but have missed the reactivation of the three infantry battalions of the 9th Marine Regt, w/o the Regt being reactivated. The three bns are part of the expansion of the USMC to 199K and I don't know that all three have yet stood up, nor the split between 1st & 2nd Mar Divs. I drove by one of them at Camp Lejeune last month.

 

1/9 used to assigned to 1st Marines and 3/9 was with 2nd or 6th, IIRC. Maybe they just revisited that.

[shrike6]

1/9 used to assigned to 1st Marines and 3/9 was with 2nd or 6th, IIRC. Maybe they just revisited that.

 

Looks like they are both assigned to the 8th Marine Regiment. So they are both in the 2nd MarDiv.

http://www.iimefpublic.usmc.mil/public/iim...sites/8thMarReg