Help Designing the Persian Army?

[Vuk]

Since I can´t find a TOE or OOB for Persia, I was hoping for help in designing a Persian Army (does not have to be historical ). Manpower ~225,000, funds big but not infinite,

 

First issue, best bolt action rifle? SMLE, Mauser (or Variants)? Schmidt-Rubin 1931 Short Rifle?

[KingSargent]

Since I can´t find a TOE or OOB for Persia, I was hoping for help in designing a Persian Army (does not have to be historical ). Manpower ~225,000, funds big but not infinite,

 

First issue, best bolt action rifle? SMLE, Mauser (or Variants)? Schmidt-Rubin 1931 Short Rifle?

Service caliber from WW1 to 1950s was 7.92mm Mauser. Rifle was Mauser M98 variant until 1950s. LMG was Czech zB26 or zb30 in 7.92. I suspect HMG was the Maxim, but DKFS. They had an SMG post-WW2, a home-produced PPSh that was considerably better finished than the standard Soviet models.

 

Field artillery was "commercial versions" of standard European field guns.

[TonyE]

Vuk,

 

Some general info here and more detailed on types here.

[Vuk]

Thanks to both of you!

[Redbeard]

Don't worry about the type of rifle, it won't be importtant - best look for something reliable and at a reasonable price - a lot of contenders. Personally I like the SMLE for its 10 round magazine, but the Mauser looks more cool.

 

Much more important would be building a good officer and NCO corps - i.e. promotion by merrit and not connections, comprehensive training etc.

 

I suspect there would be many illiterates in Persia in early 20th century, that would make a draft system less attractive. But perhaps think in the direction of recruiting (poor/orphant) boys already at say 7 or 8 years of age, teach them to read and write, build them up physically and mentally, gradually introduce military skills, and look out for officer/NCO candidates. After military service use them as school teachers in the villages and other public service jobs. Would give the ruler a very loyal bunch of men (and quiet classes in the schools).

 

Regards

 

Steffen Redbeard

[Vuk]

The SMLE is attractive, another rifle I came a cross but found almost no data on is the Gewehr 18 that supposedly could take 10 & 20 round magazines, anyone here familiar with this weapon?

[BansheeOne]

Do you mean the Mauser Selbstlade-Karabiner 1916? One of the early automatic rifles of questionable reliability, issued to aircrews and other niche personnel in WW I.

 

Edit: Scratch the above, I see you mean a different beast.

 

Germans as russians too wanted semi-automatic rifles and come up with a few designs in the time before and under the First World War, the first was from 1898, these was for complicated to use for the military. In the war use the germans 7.9mm Mauser Selbstlade-Gewehr Modell 15, a gun from the C06/09 prototype with 10 or 20 rounds magazines. But the rifle was no success and be replaced of Mondragon FSK15 "Flieger-Selbstladekarabiner", a gas-operated auto-lader. 3.000 was made in the Switzerland and sold to Germany after Mexico ( as ordred the design ) come in a civil war from 1911. Mauser M15 and FSK15 was not good for use on the Western Front and be only send to the German Navy. Mondragon FSK15 use 30 rounds drum magazine. A last try was the 7.9mm Mauser-Gewehr 18 as only a version of Mauser Gewehr 98, but short and with magazines on 25 rounds as a "trench carbine". MP18 submachinegun stopped all work on semi-automatic rifles.

 

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=51779

Edited January 30, 2008 by BansheeOne

[Vuk]

No, what I am looking for was called the Schützengraben und Nahkampfgewhr 18

[Gabe]

Personally I like the Mauser. It's robust and easier to field strip and maintain than its contemporaries. Enfield's 10 round magazine requires two stripper clips to load. It's slightly faster rate of fire can only be achieved by well trained professionals.

 

I would go with Zb.30 for the LMG. Maybe develope a belt-fed version for company level and up. If not, buy the MG34 for that role.

 

Beretta 1938 for submachine gun. Browing HP as sidearm.

 

Orelikon S for air defense. Orelikon SSG36 for antitank. Both use the same ammo.

 

Bofors 40mm and 75mm for medium and higher altitude air defense.

 

Skoda 47mm anti-tank gun.

 

Bofors 75mm mountain gun, 75mm field gun and 105mm howitzer (comparable Skoda models also acceptible)

 

British 2 inch mortar. Brandt 60mm, 80mm and 120mm mortars.

 

Not sure which tank would be best in the pre-war era.

Edited January 31, 2008 by Gabe

[Vuk]

Keeping in mind that the equipment will have to be used for some years, aren´t a 100/105mm FG and 150/155 Howitzer combo better?

[Gabe]

Keeping in mind that the equipment will have to be used for some years, aren´t a 100/105mm FG and 150/155 Howitzer combo better?

 

Well sure, but in addition to being more expensive, they are too heavy to move unless you use trucks and by extension, gasoline. I'm not sure how mechanized you want this force to be. In "3rd World" armies of this period, 75mm pack howitzers were usually the main artillery used.

[Mobius]

Since I can´t find a TOE or OOB for Persia, I was hoping for help in designing a Persian Army (does not have to be historical ). Manpower ~225,000, funds big but not infinite,

 

First issue, best bolt action rifle? SMLE, Mauser (or Variants)? Schmidt-Rubin 1931 Short Rifle?

10,000 horse archers.

1,000 Heavy cataphracts.

 

The rest light or medium spearmen.

[Vuk]

How about vz.24 Mausers for the privates and ZH29 for NCO´s?

[Sardaukar]

10,000 horse archers.

1,000 Heavy cataphracts.

 

The rest light or medium spearmen.

 

That's Parthians, not Persians

 

More here:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman-Persian...Sassanid_Empire

 

:D

Edited February 2, 2008 by Sardaukar