WWIII: AFNORTH

[SCFalken]

Premise: The Balloon Goeth Upward, 1989.

 

General Shooting War in Europe. The German theatre gets a lot of attention, but that isn't the subject of this thread....

 

 

What goes down in Norway/AFNORTH?

 

How much, and which units, of the Leningrad Front cross the Norwegian Frontier?

 

How do the Norwegians match up?

 

What NATO reinforcements* arrive, and how long do they take to do so?

 

Which way does the fight go?

 

Falken

 

 

*-ISTR a Royal Marine Brigade, a US MEB and the 10th Mountain Division were earmarked for AFNORTH.

Edited November 6, 2007 by SCFalken

[PCallahan]

Premise: The Balloon Goeth Upward, 1989.

 

General Shooting War in Europe. The German theatre gets a lot of attention, but that isn't the subject of this thread....

What goes down in Norway/AFNORTH?

 

How much, and which units, of the Leningrad Front cross the Norwegian Frontier?

 

How do the Norwegians match up?

 

What NATO reinforcements* arrive, and how long do they take to do so?

 

Which way does the fight go?

 

Falken

*-ISTR a Royal Marine Brigade, a US MEB and the 10th Mountain Division were earmarked for AFNORTH.

 

Much depends on the mobilization scenario. If Soviet airborne units are able to interdict the north-south transit corridors before the Norwegian reserves mobilize, NATO could have some trouble.

 

That said, once the Norwegians mobilized, it would likely be a campaign measured in months, not weeks, for the soviets to invest much of the northern region, assuming they could do so at all. Attempting to dig motivated light infantry out of mountain passes with mainly Cat B units operating over a long and tenuous supply line is not a task to be taken lightly.

 

There is a paper around here somewhere (I have a copy) on an analysis of the time it would take the USMC MEB to deploy from its POMCUS site in southern Norway to the north. The answer was not long.

 

Pat

[Hans Engstrom]

Which alternative (stolen from an old wargame) does the Sviet Union use?

 

1. Norway only

2. Arctic passage - demand for passage through Finland and Sweden north of the Arctic Circle

3. Scandinavian Assault - Full out attempt to knock Finland and Sweden out of the war immediately

[SCFalken]

Which alternative (stolen from an old wargame) does the Sviet Union use?

 

1. Norway only

2. Arctic passage - demand for passage through Finland and Sweden north of the Arctic Circle

3. Scandinavian Assault - Full out attempt to knock Finland and Sweden out of the war immediately

 

I'm going with the "Norway only" scenario. Sweden stays out, and if Finland doesn't throw in with the WARPAC, it at least does not join NATO.

 

 

 

Falken

[Josh]

Seems to me it would make more sense to just bomb the air and naval bases that were in the way and leave the land alone. I don't see any military or political gain from engaging Norway outside of preventing their air and naval assets from participating in the war. They can always be strangled to death later once NATO is defeated.

[Hans Engstrom]

Well, there's a load of soldiers not doing anything at all then, and that always gets the Genereal fingers all itchy. More tomorrow, I have to look up some sources first. But there have been some fascinating wargames/staffexercises doen on this.

[SCFalken]

Wasn't it a fairly accepted item that Narvik would get a surprise visit, on D-Day, from VDV, Naval Infantry, or both?

 

How badly could that disrupt the LOC from the populous South to the Frontier and FEBA?

 

Falken

[RETAC21]

Wasn't it a fairly accepted item that Narvik would get a surprise visit, on D-Day, from VDV, Naval Infantry, or both?

 

How badly could that disrupt the LOC from the populous South to the Frontier and FEBA?

 

Falken

 

Many moons ago I wargamed in TOAW a Northern Norway land combat scenario and the feeling was fighting for nothing. Large distances with few worthwile military objectives, mainly airbases.

I wouldn't throw away one of the airborne divisions to neutralise anything there, I rather use airpower to push the Norwegians south, out of the way, and keep some forces up north to create a menace to NATO to force scarce forces to deploy there.

 

Now, Southern Norway is rather more important. Together with Denmark it bars the entrance to the Baltic and can be used as a springpoint to menace the rear of any advance in Northern Germany. You wouldn't want the 3rd Shock Army reaching the Rhine only to have a Corps of Marines landing in their rear. But getting there is tough, the belt could be mined shut and sizeable forces would have to be landed by sea.

[SCFalken]

Given an 88/89 timeframe for the kickoff, and full mobilization on both sides (no "out of the Barracks" attack) prior to hostilities, what kind of force does the Leningrad Front have to fight it's way through?

 

What's the Leningrad Front's likely OOB?

 

Where does Norway/AFNORTH deploy it's units?

 

 

Falken

[Jim Martin]

What kind of liaison did NATO have in place with Sweden, in the even Sweden was not initially attacked? I mean, obviously Sweden would have an interest in maintaining communications with the belligerents, and in monitoring the situation. For that matter, what liaison arrangements did Sweden have with the Soviet military?

[Animal Mother]

Now, Southern Norway is rather more important. Together with Denmark it bars the entrance to the Baltic and can be used as a springpoint to menace the rear of any advance in Northern Germany. You wouldn't want the 3rd Shock Army reaching the Rhine only to have a Corps of Marines landing in their rear. But getting there is tough, the belt could be mined shut and sizeable forces would have to be landed by sea.

 

Not to mention the decent amount of NATO diesel submarines, especially the small German Type 206's and the Danish navy's Type 205's and 207's. Those, combined with mines would have been quite able to shut down Öresund and the Belts and cause heavy losses if they would try. Once into Skagerak I would guess the Dutch and RN diesels would join the fight, with what subs the Norwegian navy could spare, though I would guess most would be on the ready in the north to attack any invasion fleets attempting to strike key points along the coast.

 

How where the Danish coast defences in the Straits anyway?

 

And how would gun forts fare? We in Norway had a decent amount around important straits and cities. I am thinking properly sited and protected minefields and torpedo forts would be much more effective?

[Animal Mother]

Given an 88/89 timeframe for the kickoff, and full mobilization on both sides (no "out of the Barracks" attack) prior to hostilities, what kind of force does the Leningrad Front have to fight it's way through?

 

What's the Leningrad Front's likely OOB?

 

Where does Norway/AFNORTH deploy it's units?

Falken

 

Most realistic for the Norwegian AF would be to concentrate the AF at least around Bodø AFB (Hopefully with most of our SAM defences as well) and perhaps alternates around Narvik/Harstad. (Evenes). The biggest disadvantage for the RNoAF is the complete lack of BVR capacity. We would be dependant on surprise to avoid a heads on scenario against larger numbers of Soviet BVR armed fighters. Banak AF would hopefully be destroyed by the nearby garrison so that its out of action for some time. If not, it would be a very useful forward base for the Soviet AF, also local civilian airfields would be useful.

[SCFalken]

Most realistic for the Norwegian AF would be to concentrate the AF at least around Bodø AFB (Hopefully with most of our SAM defences as well) and perhaps alternates around Narvik/Harstad. (Evenes). The biggest disadvantage for the RNoAF is the complete lack of BVR capacity. We would be dependant on surprise to avoid a heads on scenario against larger numbers of Soviet BVR armed fighters. Banak AF would hopefully be destroyed by the nearby garrison so that its out of action for some time. If not, it would be a very useful forward base for the Soviet AF, also local civilian airfields would be useful.

 

What about ground forces? Seems to me that the Norway/Russia Frontier becomes an abattoir.

 

Where does the AFNORTH/Norway MLR form up? What units get sent up north and which are kept south?

 

What's the Norwegian Army and HV look like, at full mobilization?

 

Falken

Edited November 9, 2007 by SCFalken

[Animal Mother]

What about ground forces? Seems to me that the Norway/Russia Frontier becomes an abattoir.

 

Where does the AFNORTH/Norway MLR form up? What units get sent up north and which are kept south?

 

What's the Norwegian Army and HV look like, at full mobilization?

 

Falken

 

Most likely line of defence would be somewhere in Troms (Second northmost county), as its more better defensive terrain that the open tundra that dominate Finnmark.

 

Fnnmark itself would most likely be abandoned after a fighting retreat, with most bridges blow and small units staying behind to do further sabotage and provide recon to NATO air.

 

Total mobilization was 13 brigades, if I remember the numbers correctly. Two of the brigades in the south of Norway had their gear stored in the North (5th and 6th brigade IIRC). The rest would be sent north if needed and of course defend the southern part of Norway against invasion. The correct lineup should be in the NATO OOB that was complied here on this site. I think 5 brigades where to remain in the south and middle, leaving 8 to the north. (I have to check the OOB.)

 

The Home Guards where around 70,000 in their number during the cold war, and would would be responsible for the protection of local important assets and infrastructure. They would also be quite useful fighting in their local terrain, knowing trails not marked on maps, ideal ambush sites and so on. If they would be used to reinforce losses in the Army brigades, I am not sure.

 

Paging Tony Engelsen!

Edited November 9, 2007 by Animal Mother

[TonyE]

T-man to the rescue....

 

There is a map showing the wartime deployment of the 6 brigades (Brig Nord,5,6,13,14,15) in Northern Norway in "Norsk Forsvarshistorie Bind 5", it more or less show them clustered in Troms.

The other 7 brigades would initially be based in the parts of the country were they were raised, providing a sort of mobile field force in Southern Norway. This would be 1st in Østfold, Brig S in Oslo area, 3rd in Vestfold/coastal parts of Telemark, 7th in Agder, 8th in Rogaland, Brig V in Hordaland and 12th in Trøndelag. As far as i know there were no plans to send further brigades up north other than 5th and 6th whose equipment was pre-stored there.

 

Static defence would be provided by the Homeguard and Local Defence battalions (Lokalverns bataljoner, usually one or two per regiment).

[SCFalken]

Static defence would be provided by the Homeguard and Local Defence battalions (Lokalverns bataljoner, usually one or two per regiment).

 

What's the difference between Homeguard and Local Defence? I'd not heard of the Local Defence before now.

 

How long would it (theoretically) take to mobilize the full strength of the Norwegian forces? Was this ever tried in practice?

 

 

Falken

[chico20854]

Given an 88/89 timeframe for the kickoff, and full mobilization on both sides (no "out of the Barracks" attack) prior to hostilities, what kind of force does the Leningrad Front have to fight it's way through?

 

What's the Leningrad Front's likely OOB?

 

from orbat.com's forums (a translation of Feskov's Army of the Soviet Union), probably based on the CFE treaty data:

 

LVO - Leningrad VO, HQ Leningrad

 

Direct reporting:

 

359th Independent Battalion for Protection and Guarantee (Leningrad)

2nd Independent Spetsnaz Brigade

107th Independent Spetsnaz Training Regiment

21st Missile Brigade

131st Missile Brigade

186th Independent Missile Training Brigade

195th Independent Missile Training Brigade

141st Anti-Aircraft Missile Brigade

289th Heavy Artillery Brigade (Luga): 48 2s7

451st Independent Anti-Tank Artillery Battalion

332nd Independent Guards Helicopter Transport Regiment (Pribylovo): 29 Mi-8, 28 Mi-6

317th Independent Mixed Air Squadron (Tuybola): 10 Mi-8, 2 Mi-24K, 1 Mi-6

33rd Engineer Sapper Regiment (Kotlas): 6 IRMAS

170th Engineer Regiment

7th Guards Engineer Pontoon-Bridge Regiment (Kerr): 1 IRMAS

639th Independent Engineer Road-Bridge Battalion

95th Communications Brigade (Chernaya Recka): 7 R-145BM, 1 R-156BTR, 1 R-137B, 1 R-409BM, 1 P-240BT, 1 P-241BT, E-351BR

97th Communications Brigade

192nd Independent Communications Regiment

1611th Independent Communications Training Regiment

73rd Radio-Technical Brigade (Toksovo): 1 R-145BM

146th Independent Radio-Technical Brigade

164th Independent Electronic Warfare Regiment

41st Chemical Defence Regiment

69th Material Support Brigade

71st Material Support Brigade

3rd Automobile Brigade

34th Pipeline Brigade

209th Medical Brigade

 

2nd Guards "Perekop" Artillery Division (Pushkin): 1 R-145BM

- 287th Guards Heavy Howitzer Artillery Brigade (Pavlovian): 48 D-20, R-145BM

- 316th Guards Heavy Howitzer Artillery Brigade (Pavlovian): 48 D-20, 3 PRP-3, 1 R-145BM, 60 MT-LBT

- 457th Guards Howitzer Artillery Brigade (Pushkin): 48 D-30, 12 1V18, 4 1V19, 5 PRP-4, 1 R-145BM

- 458th Guards Gun Artillery Brigade (Pavlovian): 48 2A36 Giatsint

- 463rd Guards Rocket Artillery Brigade (Pushkin): 48 9P140 Uragan, 1 PRP-3, 1 R-145BM

- 258th Anti-Tank Artillery Brigade (Pavlovian): 104 MT-LBT, 5 R-145BM, 1 PRP-3

 

Repair Depots/Shops:

 

75th ARZ

775th ArtRZ

521st RZSS

10th BB-V:

970th TSBRA [Central Base of Reserve Auto-Technicians]

1873rd AvtB [Automobile Base]

2124th NRB

96th IS

887th skl. SS

988th IS

2098th Ace-V

2322nd Ace-V

 

Training Centres & Replacement Units:

 

323rd UTS

391st UTS

406th UTS

731rd UTS

987th UTS

321st School of Ensigns

1494th Reserve Rocket Artillery Regiment

229th Rear-Area Protection Division

250th Spare Motor-Rifle Division (Vladimir Camp): 40 MT-LB, 4 2s1, 28 D-30, 33 PM-38, 2 2s12, 3 BM-21, 7 R-145BM, 3 BTR-50PU, 1 PU-12

3807th BKHVT (Chernaya Rechka): 94 T-55, 23 MT-LB, 32 BS-3, 12 M-46, 1 BTR-50PUM

5188th BKHVT (Ivanteyevo): 33 T-55, 39 PT-76, 12 BM-21, 16 BTR-50PUM, 6 R-145BM, 4 MTU

 

56th Guards Training Center [OUTS] (Krasnoselsk): 9 BTR-50PU, 2 R-145BM, 1 IRMAS, 5 MTU [ex. 63rd Guards MSD with 269., 270. and 271. Guards MRR]

- 116th Motor-Rifle Regiment (Osinovaya Roshcha): 13 PT-76, 12 MT-LB, 3 BTR-50PU, 1 R-145BM, 1 PU-12

- 270th Guards "Leningradskiy" Training Motor-Rifle Regiment: 63 BMP-1, 3 BTR-80, 25 BTR-70, 5 BTR-60, 12 MT-LB, 1 PU-12

- 271st Guards "Leningradskiy" Training Motor-Rifle Regiment (Sertolowo): 13 PT-76, 12 MT-LB, 3 BTR-50PU, 1 R-145BM, 1 PU-12

- 86th Guards Training Tank Regiment (Sertolowo): 90 T-55, 60 PT-76, 5 BTR-50PUM

- 133rd Guards "Leningradskiy" Training Artillery Regiment (Osinovaya Roshcha): 4 D-30, 3 2s12, 12 BM-21

- 1034th Anti-Aircraft Artillery Regiment (Pyesochnyy): 24 MT-LBT, 1 PU-12

- 955th Independent Missile Battalion

- 597th Independent Training Reconnaissance Battalion (Pyesochnyy)

- 93rd Independent Communications Battalion (Osinovaya Roshcha)

- 73rd Independent Training Engineer Battalion (Pyesochnyy)

- 376th Independent Repair and Recovery Battalion

- 855th Independent Training Truck Battalion

- 573rd Independent Training Medical Battalion

 

510th Independent Guards Training Tank Regiment (Kamenka): 66 T-80, 1 BRM-1K, 1 MTU

 

30th Guards "Leningradskiy" Army Korps (Vyborg)

 

Direct reporting:

 

970th Anti-Tank Artillery Regiment (Vyborg): 51 MT-LBT, 4 R-145BM

807th Independent Rocket Artillery Battalion

1451st Reconnaissance Artillery Regiment

462nd Spare Artillery Brigade

93rd Independent Helicopter Squadron (Kosinovo): 6 Mi-24, 8 Mi-8, 2 Mi-24K, 2 Mi-24R

910th Independent Engineer Battalion (Kharitonov): 1 IRMAS

135th Independent Communication Battalion (Vyborg): 8 R-145BM, 2 R-156BTR, 1 R-137B, 1 R-409BM, 1 P-240BT

198th Independent Radio-Technical Battalion (Vyborg): 1 R-145BM

496th Independent Electronic Warfare Battalion

54th Material Support Brigade

217th Independent Repair and Recovery Battalion

 

45th Guards "Krasnoselsk" Motor-Rifle Division (Kamenka): 1 R-145BM, 2 R-156BTR, 13 MT-LBT

- 129th Guards Motor-Rifle Regiment (Kamenka): 31 T-80, 103 BTR-70, 3 BMP-1, 1 BRM-1K, 4 MT-LB, 2 2s1, 2 D-30, 4 2s12, 12 2B16, 12 9P140 Uragan, 1 BMP-1KSh, 3 R-145BM

- 131st Guards "Leningradskiy" Motor-Rifle Regiment (Kharitonov): 31 T-80, 118 BTR-80, 3 BMP-1, 1 BRM-1K, 12 2s1, 12 2B16, 1 BMP-1KSh, 3 R-145BM

- 134th Guards "Leningradskiy" Motor-Rifle Regiment (Kamenka): 31 T-80, 130 BMP-1, 2 BRM-1K, 12 2s1, 12 2B16, 5 BTR-50PU

- 75th Guards Tank Regiment (Kamenka): 93 T-80, 12 BMP-1, 2 BRM-1K, 12 2s1, 1 PRP-3, 3 1V18, 1 1V19, 1 R-145BM

- 805th Guards Artillery Regiment (Kamenka): 33 2s3, 12 BM-21, 1 PRP-3, 2 PRP-4, 3 1V18, 1 1V19

- 1005th Anti-Aircraft Missile Regiment (Kamenka): 1 R-145BM

- 1525th Anti-Tank Artillery Battalion

- 789th Independent Reconnaissance Battalion (Kharitonov): 10 BMP-1, 7 BRM-1K, 6 BTR-70, 2 R-145BM

- 71st Independent Communications Battalion (Kamenka): 8 R-145BM, 1 R-156BTR, 1 R-137B

- 45th Independent Engineer Battalion (Kharitonov): 1 IRMAS, 2 UR-67, 5 MTU

- 159th Independent Repair and Recovery Battalion

- 890th Independent Supply Battalion

 

64th Guards "Krasnoselsk" Motor-Rifle Division (Sapernoye)

- 194th Guards Motor-Rifle Regiment (Svobodnoye): 13 PT-76, 118 MT-LB, 12 D-30, 3 BTR-50PUM, 1 R-145BM, 1 PU-12, 12 MT-LBT tractors

- 197th Guards Motor-Rifle Regiment (Sapernoye): 13 PT-76, 12 D-30, 3 BTR-50PUM, 1 R-145BM, 1 PU-12, 12 MT-LBT tractors

- 269th Guards "Leningradskiy" Motor-Rifle Regiment (Kulikovo): 13 PT-76, 3 BTR-50PUM, 1 R-145BM, 1 PU-12, 12 MT-LBT tractors

- 83rd Independent Tank Battalion (Pontonnoye): 40 T-80, 7 D-30, 4 PM-38, 2 BM-21, 1 BTR-50PUM, 2 MT-LBT

- 10th Artillery Regiment (Kulikovo): 36 D-30, 12 BM-21, 1 R-145BM, 36 MT-LBT

- 1001st Anti-Aircraft Artillery Regiment (Sapernoye): 24 MT-LBT, 1 PU-12

- 327th Independent Missile Battalion

- 792nd Independent Reconnaissance Battalion

- 94th Independent Communications Battalion (Sapernoye): 6 BTR-50PUM, 2 R-145BM

- 75th Independent Engineer Battalion (Pontonnoye): 2 UR-67, 1 MTU

- 161st Independent Training Repair and Recovery Battalion

- 1482nd Independent Supply Battalion

 

26th Army Korps (Arkhangelsk) [lost the 77th MSD to the Navy in 1989]

 

Direct reporting:

 

258th Independent Helicopter Squadron (Luostari): 8 Mi-24, 7 Mi-8, 2 Mi-24K, 1 Mi-24R

14th Engineer Regiment

293rd Engineer Regiment

1068th Independent Communications Battalion (Arkhangelsk): 6 R-145BM, 2 R-137B, 1 R-156BTR, 1 R-409BM, 1 P-240BT

55th Material Support Brigade

709th Independent Repair and Recovery Battalion

5189th BKHVT (Vologda): 38 T-55, 35 PT-76, 12 BM-21, 15 BTR-50PUM, 6 R-145BM, 7 BTR-50PU, 1 PRP-3, 2 UR-67, 4 MTU [ex. 69th Motor-Rifle Division?]

 

6th Combined Arms Army (Petrozavodsk)

 

Direct reporting:

 

6th Missile Brigade

271st Anti-Aircraft Missile Brigade

5th Artillery Regiment (Luostary): 24 2A36, 36 D-20, 3 PRP-3, 3 1V18, 1 1V19, 6 R-145BM, 47 MT-LBT

182nd Rocket Artillery Regiment (Kandalaksha): 36 9P140 Uragan

1450th Reconnaissance Artillery Regiment

88th Independent Helicopter Squadron (Apatity): 7 Mi-24, 7 Mi-8, 2 Mi-24R, 2 Mi-24K

274th Independent Reconnaissance Squadron: Unmanned air recon. vehicles

840th Independent Engineer Battalion (Drovyanoye): 1 IRMAS, 2 MTU-20, 2 MT-55A

12th Independent Communications Regiment (Murmansk): 9 R-145BM, 2 R-137B, 1 R-156BTR, 1 R-409BM, 1 P-240BT, 1 E-351BR

292nd Independent Electronic Warfare Regiment

977th Independent Electronic Warfare Battalion

49th Independent Radio-Technical Battalion (Petrozavodsk): 1 R-145BM

5th Independent Chemical Defence Battalion

53rd Material Support Brigade

179th Independent Repair and Recovery Battalion

5186th BKHVT (Petrozavodsk): 40 T-55, 39 PT-76, 12 BM-21, 14 BTR-50PUM, 7 BTR-50PU, 6 R-145BM, 1 R-156BTR, 4 MTU, 96 MT-LB [ex. 71st Motor-Rifle Division?]

5187th BKHVT (Nagornyy): 40 T-55, 39 PT-76, 12 BM-21, 12 PM-38, 18 BTR-50PUM, 2 BTR-50PU, 4 R-145BM, 1 R-156BTR, 2 UR-67, 4 MTU, 96 MT-LB [ex. 37th Motor-Rifle Division?]

 

54th Motor-Rifle Division (Alakurtti)

- 221st Motor-Rifle Regiment (Kandalaksha): 13 PT-76, 3 BTR-50PUM, 1 PU-12, 12 MT-LBT

- 251st Motor-Rifle Regiment (Kandalaksha): 13 PT-76, 12 D-30, 3 BTR-50PUM, 1 PU-12, 14 MT-LBT

- 281st Motor-Rifle Regiment (Alakurtti): 13 PT-76, 125 MT-LB, 12 D-30, 4 BTR-50PUM, 1 PU-12, 14 MT-LBT

- 82nd Independent Tank Battalion (Alakurtti): 40 T-80, 1 BTR-50PUM

- 441st Artillery Regiment (Alakurtti): 36 D-30, 12 BM-21, 3 1V18, 1 1V19, 36 MT-LBT

- 454th Anti-Aircraft Artillery Regiment (Alakurtti): 1 PU-12, 26 MT-LBT

- 333rd Independent Missile Battalion

- 790th Independent Reconnaissance Battalion (Alakurtti): 1 BTR-50PUM

- 789th Independent Communications Battalion (Alakurtti): 8 BTR-50PUM, 2 R-145BM, 1 R-156BTR

- 299th Independent Engineer Battalion (Alakurtti): 1 IRMAS, 2 UR-67, 3 MTU

- 160th Independent Training Repair and Recovery Battalion

- 1481st Independent Supply Battalion

- 423rd Independent Medical Battalion

 

111th Motor-Rifle Division (Sortavala)

- 182nd Motor-Rifle Regiment (Lakhdenpokhya): 13 PT-76, 125 MT-LB, 12 D-30, 3 BTR-50PUM, 1 R-145BM, 1 PU-12, 15 MT-LBT

- 184th Motor-Rifle Regiment (Lakhdenpokhya): 13 PT-76, 3 BTR-50PUM, 1 R-145BM, 1 PU-12, 15 MT-LBT

- 185th Motor-Rifle Regiment (Sortavala): 13 PT-76, 12 D-30, 4 BTR-50PUM, 1 R-145BM, 1 PU-12, 29 MT-LBT

- 91st Independent Tank Battalion (Lakhdenpokhya): 40 T-80, 1 BTR-50PU

- 109th Artillery Regiment (Lakhdenpokhya): 36 D-30, 12 BM-21, 1 R-145BM, 40 MT-LBT

- 1031st Anti-Aircraft Artillery Regiment (Sortalava): 4 PU-12, 28 MT-LBT

- 951st Independent Missile Battalion

- 795th Independent Reconnaissance Battalion (Lakhdenpokhya): 1 R-145BM

- 816th Independent Communications Battalion (Sortalava): 8 BTR-50PUM, 2 R-145BM

- 645th Independent Engineer Battalion (Sortalava): 1 IRMAS, 1 UR-67, 5 MTU

- 296th Independent Training Repair and Recovery Battalion

- 1487th Independent Supply Battalion

 

131st "Pechenga" Motor-Rifle Division (Murmansk)

- 10th Motor-Rifle Regiment (Pechenga): 13 PT-76, 138 MT-LB, 5 BTR-50PUM, 1 PU-12, 18 MT-LBT

- 19th Motor-Rifle Regiment (Pechenga): 13 PT-76, 138 MT-LB, 5 BTR-50PU, 1 PU-12, 18 MT-LBT

- 253rd "Kirkenes" Motor-Rifle Regiment (Murmansk): 13 PT-76, 138 MT-LB, 5 BTR-50PU, 1 PU-12, 18 MT-LBT

- 60th Independent Tank Battalion (Luostari): 40 T-80, 11 MT-LB, 1 BTR-50PU

- No Artillery Regiment reported

- 696th Anti-Aircraft Missile Regiment (Luostari): 4 PU-12

- 306th Independent Missile Battalion (Pechenga): 3 R-145BM

- 796th Independent Reconnaissance Battalion (Luostari): 1 BTR-50PU

- 893rd Independent Communications Battalion (Murmansk): 7 BTR-50PU, 2 R-145BM, 1 R-156BTR, 1 R-137B

- 274th Independent Engineer Battalion (Eelenny Gorodok): 1 IRMAS, 4 MTU

- 162nd Independent Training Repair and Recovery Battalion

- 1338th Independent Supply Battalion

- 43rd Independent Medical Battalion

[SCFalken]

359th Independent Battalion for Protection and Guarantee (Leningrad)

 

WTH is that?

 

 

Falken

[Jim Martin]

And what's an Automobile Bde?

[konev]

Falken, Martin and chico

 

The 359th should be called the 359th Independent Security and Protection Battalion {basically your HQ Security Battalion]

 

The Automobile Brigade is the Transportation Brigade.

 

The weapons and vehicle quantities are from the November 1990 CFE Treaty data exchange.

 

There are a lot of units from the 1988/89 time period NOT on the list, mainly because they were either: a) the equivalent of either a Category "C" or mobilization-only unit and were disbanded before the treaty signing (its base converted to a Weapons and Equipment Storage Base) or transferred to another service to get around the CFE Treaty restrictions (A Guards Airborne Division transferred to the KGB Border Guards comes to mind).

 

This was NOT from Fes'kov, but from A.G. Lenski's book, which does have the treaty data. Fes'kov's book goes up to the 1988/89 period and does not cover the CFE Treaty area. Mainly right up to the point where the SA was at its strongest.

 

konev

[SCFalken]

Is a Weapons and Equipment Storage Base an active storage command (with personnel performing as-needed maintenance and care) or a "boneyard" where equipment just sits in a shed?

 

 

Falken

[SCFalken]

How would MVD units participate in the invasion? Or would they be used to batten down the homefront, in case anyone got ideas about rebelling while the Politburo was otherwise occupied?

 

 

Falken

[bd1]

Couple of years ago a newspaper ran an article series here about ´memories from Sov.Army´ . One man remembered that in 1985 there was a division-level exercise for local cat.-C division . He was attatched to Regimenteal HQ and was told that the scenario had this division deploy to Southern Norway . Through southern Sweden .

Was it just an exercise scenario or their real mission , he could not say , but he guessed it was more of a real-life scenario .

 

but take this with a little salt

[konev]

Falken,

 

The Bases (the Cyrillic characters come out to in Latin "BKhVT") were the Soviet Army equivalent of the POMCUS site. If you see on listed, there is a 99.999999% chance its the mobilization location for a Soviet Army unit and the equipment necessary is stored there.

 

For example, the 3807th at Chernaya Rechka possessed 94 T-55s, 23 MT-LBT, 32 BS-3, 12 M-46 and 1 BTR-50PUM. Cover me in bortsch and call me Igor, but that sure does look like the majority of equipment neccessary to outfit a Tank Regiment.

 

Digging a little deeper into Fes'kov's book, Chernaya Rechka was the home of the 146th Motorized Rifle Division. Although he IDs the 3 MRR, he doesn't ID the Tank Regiment. That means this was most likely a Category B Division with the Tank Regiment a mobilization-only unit. It might even be a Category "C" since it was equipped with T-55s.

 

You must be talking abou the KGB. Up to the revolution, the MVD had control of just the police functions (the regular cops). It was the KGB that had the police-type control in the homeland. While the Army did have some rear-area security formations, they would have been used in the occupied territories. Most of the security in East Germany and Poland would have been handled by the respective nations, with available Stasi units advancing into West Germany after territoy had been secure. The KGB would limite its operations to the USSR.

 

Seems to me somebody been reading WAY to much Victor Suvorov.

 

konev

[PCallahan]

Falken,

 

The Bases (the Cyrillic characters come out to in Latin "BKhVT") were the Soviet Army equivalent of the POMCUS site. If you see on listed, there is a 99.999999% chance its the mobilization location for a Soviet Army unit and the equipment necessary is stored there.

 

For example, the 3807th at Chernaya Rechka possessed 94 T-55s, 23 MT-LBT, 32 BS-3, 12 M-46 and 1 BTR-50PUM. Cover me in bortsch and call me Igor, but that sure does look like the majority of equipment neccessary to outfit a Tank Regiment.

 

Digging a little deeper into Fes'kov's book, Chernaya Rechka was the home of the 146th Motorized Rifle Division. Although he IDs the 3 MRR, he doesn't ID the Tank Regiment. That means this was most likely a Category B Division with the Tank Regiment a mobilization-only unit. It might even be a Category "C" since it was equipped with T-55s.

 

You must be talking abou the KGB. Up to the revolution, the MVD had control of just the police functions (the regular cops). It was the KGB that had the police-type control in the homeland. While the Army did have some rear-area security formations, they would have been used in the occupied territories. Most of the security in East Germany and Poland would have been handled by the respective nations, with available Stasi units advancing into West Germany after territoy had been secure. The KGB would limite its operations to the USSR.

 

Seems to me somebody been reading WAY to much Victor Suvorov.

 

konev

 

Konev --

 

The thing I find most interesting about this is the unusual allocation of equipment to the units. Is there reason to believe they are not accurate?

While no one actually believes that most units of any army had all their TO&E equipment actually on-hand, some of these allocations suggest that the best thing to do with Soviet TO&Es would be to throw them out!

 

Pat