Beer & Shelia's

[Argus]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Beersheba

 

Light Horse charge again

By Middle East correspondent David Hardaker

 

Ninety years ago in what is now southern Israel, hundreds of Australian light horsemen saddled up to play a key role in a military victory.

 

In one of the last great cavalry charges, Australian troops, along with New Zealanders and Britons, overran a Turkish force in a decisive battle that marked the beginning of the end of the Ottoman Empire.

 

However, unlike Gallipoli, it is an achievement Australians barely celebrate.

 

But around 50 Australians have travelled to Beersheba in Israel to re-enact the charge of the 4th Light Horse Brigade on October 31, 1917.

 

On that day, the Australians set off, first at the trot and then at a surging, thunderous gallop, at a pace which surprised and overpowered the Turks.

 

Grant Pike's great uncle was a soldier in one of the Australian units and says the men had marched for days to get there.

 

"It wasn't 'til sundown that it was a do-or-die mission," he said.

 

"The horses had marched for three days without water. If they didn't take the wells in Beersheba, they didn't know what was going to happen.

 

"The Turks had their guns ranged at a certain point.

 

"But what took them by surprise is the Australians put their spurs in, kept galloping, underneath the range of the Turkish guns, leapt over the trenches, and took the town."

 

'Beers and sheilas'

 

Legend has it the Australians rode at speed to take the town of Beersheba because they misheard the town's name as beers and sheilas and could not wait to get there.

 

But Beersheba, in what is now southern Israel, was a strategic stronghold for the Turks, and victory there was key to a British victory in Jerusalem, and eventually the creation of a homeland for the Jews.

 

Barry Rodgers is the man who came up with the plan for the current trip.

 

"It's a little bit like Dad's Army, our group," he said.

 

"We range from 18 years of age, and our oldest rider is 80, a Korean [war] veteran.

 

"I'm hoping that when I'm re-enacting the charge, I don't fall off, because I don't bounce as well as I used to."

 

Until two years ago, Mr Pike had never ridden a horse, but he has been driven to Beersheba because of the deeds of his great uncle, who died when he was a little boy.

 

"When his wife died we found all these letters, photographs, diaries, and it was just amazing," he said.

 

"This old man landed on Gallipoli, fought in Lone Pine, went on and did the charge in Beersheba.

 

"There's pretty descriptive letters of what he went through.

 

"We had no idea, so it makes you wonder, some of these old blokes you see crossing the street, you wonder, I wonder, what they went through in their younger days."

 

Perspective

 

Mr Pike has also made another link.

 

For the first time he met Rob Unicomb, whose great-grandfather served right alongside Mr Pike's great uncle.

 

"He's not the normal sort of person I'd mix with, but anyway," he laughs.

 

"Yes, it's turned out to be divine intervention. He's lucky to meet me."

 

He says to be doing this now, 90 years later, makes him realise what these men did back then.

 

"[it] probably even makes you a better person in yourself. I think after you realise what your forebears did, it sorts of put in perspective how easy I've got it.

 

"Really I think, there's nothing I should complain about at all."

 

In the end, the re-enactment was a very different affair to the original, glorious battle.

 

There were no Turkish forces to run over. Yes, the riders were kitted out in World War I uniforms, but they weren't allowed to unsheathe their swords. And when the charge came, it was more the shuffle of the light brigade. Full pace being a canter rather than a blazing gallop.

 

But in the distance, you could just hear a spontaneous three cheers when the veterans of 2007 made it to the end.

 

For Mr Rodgers, it was one small step to making the glorious victory at Beersheba as celebrated as the glorious defeat at Gallipoli.

 

"I think it tells us something about the Australian psyche," he said.

 

"It's unfortunate, because the campaign, the Palestinian campaign, was a spectacular campaign, and in geo-political terms had very, very significant outcomes."

 

from

 

http://abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/10/31/...ction=australia

 

Yes I know the article is a little rough around the edges and playing for effect in places, but it is all the play (AFAIK) this story got today (opps yesterday now). Bloody elections.

 

Israeli's to the left of them, Palastinians to the right, towards the Esky of beer charge the gallant 50... some times I'm proud to be an Aussie even if my country isn't.

 

Roll on the centinial!

 

If I win Tatts (the lottery), I'll fly the buggers out meyself and turn on the suds.

 

shane

[KingSargent]

However, unlike Gallipoli, it is an achievement Australians barely celebrate.

Of course not. You would rather celebrate failure than success.

[Archie Pellagio]

Of course not. You would rather celebrate failure than success.

 

I think you'll find it a self-indulgent creation myth that we'd love to believe saw Australian Super-Soldiers, the epitiome of manly virtue, missused by monocle-wearing, incompetent, effeminate British (English actually) generals...

 

Oh, and it was only us there, no British, no French...

 

[DougRichards]

I think you'll find it a self-indulgent creation myth that we'd love to believe saw Australian Super-Soldiers, the epitiome of manly virtue, missused by monocle-wearing, incompetent, effeminate British (English actually) generals...

 

Oh, and it was only us there, no British, no French...

 

 

Luke, were not there some K1s present?

[Gman]

Luke, were not there some K1s present?

 

 

Not to mention Indians.

 

For what its worth, when I was younger, I was in a Light Horse Regiment here in Oz running M113s (NEVER Gavins !) . we would always celebrate 31st October as Beersheba Day. It was a night for having the OR's served by the NCO's and officers in the mess. Just one of those timeless traditions. Great that the day is still remembered in the Oz Army.

 

cheers

 

Gman

[capt_starlight]

(Australian) Chief of Army History Conference this year was: 1917: Training, Tactics and Technology (specifically on the Western Front). Covered aspects of British, Canadian, South African, New Zealand, French, US and German changes on the Western Front.

 

Beersheba was mentioned but once.....

[Archie Pellagio]

Luke, were not there some K1s present?

 

Yep, none of them either (whatever the hell a K1 is)

 

Just MANLY Aussie men (with a few of our friendly but backwards cousins the Kiwis)

[DougRichards]

Yep, none of them either (whatever the hell a K1 is)

 

Just MANLY Aussie men (with a few of our friendly but backwards cousins the Kiwis)

 

 

 

K1

 

 

K 1 W 1

Edited November 2, 2007 by DougRichards

[Archie Pellagio]

K1

K 1 W 1

 

Ahhhhhhh...

 

See previous post.

[baboon6]

IIRC the initial Brit contingent was 29th Division (all regulars) and the Royal Naval Division (about 2/3 RN reservists and wartime volunteers, 1/3 RMLI, mainly regulars). The divisions brought in at Suvla Bay were TA and K1.

[bad-dice]

This is a bigger picture of the charge:

 

http://www.lighthorse.org.au/histbatt/photo.htm

 

I doubt that it is, but it is about as near a contemporary shot of what it looked like as you are likely to get.

[Colin Williams]

Off topic here, but what is the background for the ANZAC forces from WW1 splitting into the separate Australian and New Zealand forces in WW2. Didn't they get along?

[DougRichards]

Off topic here, but what is the background for the ANZAC forces from WW1 splitting into the separate Australian and New Zealand forces in WW2. Didn't they get along?

In WW1 the empire was a much stronger influence than it was 35 years later. Hence the Australian and New Zealand Army Corp being established as a part of Imperial forces, with distinct Australian and NZ divisions. There were not 'mixed' units as such, but I am sure that large numbers of Australians served in NZ units and vice versa.

 

Later Australian and NZ forces served alongside each other in North Africa in WW2, but even then there were differences of opinion in how to do things.

 

For instance when the LRDG was being formed Australian commanders were approached first to supply troops, but they would not release them, probably for political reasons to do with Australian soldiers not serving under British officers, but also because Australian commanders probably didn't want to lose some of their best soldiers to some-one else's private army.

 

I suspect that New Zealand commanders saw it as an opportunity to rid themselves of those who men were very good soldiers, but who also had a more individualistic streak than approved of by Kiwi commanders. Rommel also thought that New Zealanders were more disciplined than Australians, even if the Australians were better 'shock' troops. It is rumoured that Monty wanted a division of Australians for D-Day, but of course he didn't get them.

 

In WW2 Australia was more directly threatened than NZ by the Japanese as well as Papua-New Guinea being an Australian protectorate, so NZ had much less reason to get involved in the New Guinea battles.

 

In WW1 Australia did not introduce conscription - which was a major political issue at the time. New Zealand had conscription, and had some interesting ways of enforcing it: Some objectors were taken to Europe by force and physically dragged into the trenches, without training or weapons.

 

In general terms the differences between Australians and New Zealanders is probably the same as that between the USA and Britain.

Edited November 3, 2007 by DougRichards

[KingSargent]

In WW2 Australia was more directly threatened than NZ by the Japanese as well as Papua-New Guinea being an Australian protectorate, so NZ had much less reason to get involved in the New Guinea battles.

That was because of the theater boundaries set by Combined Chiefs of Staff in early 1942. OZ was in SouthWest Pacific Area, NZ was in Pacific Ocean Area (and/or South Pacific Area later). 3rd NZ division and RNZAF operated in the Solomons and POA, Australian Army units, RAN, and RAAF in SWPA, which included New Guinea and Netherlands East Indies.

[Archie Pellagio]

Even in WWI they were still very different units.

One prominent example is the excecution of troops under British tribunals.

Australia strictly forbid it, though several who enlisted with the NZ divisions were excecuted for cowardice etc.