State Guards/State Defence Forces?

[SCFalken]

Rumor:

 

Back in the early 90s there was a great deal of interest on the part of DoD and several Congressmen (Sam Nunn IIRC) in organizing various State Guards/SDFs and giving them Federal approval, backing and training. The idea would be to use them to supplement the National Guard to give a ready reserve of (armed) personnel for disaster relief that would be available even in the midst of a general mobilization.

 

The plans were essentially a done-deal, to the extent of uniform designs already being solicited (gray AIUI)....and the Oklahoma City bombing happened less than a week before it was going to be introduced. DOA.

 

This is what I heard a while back. Anyone know if there was any truth to it?

 

 

Falken

Edited October 30, 2007 by SCFalken

[Paul in Qatar]

Certainly no rumor. State guard outfits have been around since WWII at least. At that time the National Guard went off to free the world, and the states were left with nothing. These are completely state organizations, they have no federal funding of mission. In truth they are mostly skeleton organizations. (I seem to recall the Massachusetts State Guard has some sort of ceremonial mounted unit.)

 

So they are very unready outfits. Mostly retirees who provide their own uniforms and who provide the framework of an emergency mobilization.

 

==Edited to add==

Official site of the Maryland Defense Forces.

Edited October 30, 2007 by Paul in Saudi

[Bob B]

Tennessee State Guard:

 

http://tnsg.us/

 

I mentioned this recently in another thread. They have been around in one form or another for quite a long time.

[SCFalken]

I know we have them. I was referring to the rumor that Congress was going to support them, and upgrade them into a more robust force (or rather, assist/direct the States to do it).

[TheSilentType]

It seems like reserve/auxilliary police forces or something similar would make more sense for this kind of a role.

[Paul in Qatar]

Yep, if I wanted to beef up state capabilities, I would throw money at the fire departments and sheriffs.

[Guest JamesG123]

I know South Carolina and Georgia have "State Guard" organizations. While I'm sure they mean well, its literally the bottom of the barrel. Old men, kids, and MEPS rejects. Money isn't going to increase its quality, and the AC, NG, and police forces have enough trouble attracting people right now, they don't need yet another compeditor for manpower.

[TheSilentType]

I know South Carolina and Georgia have "State Guard" organizations. While I'm sure they mean well, its literally the bottom of the barrel. Old men, kids, and MEPS rejects. Money isn't going to increase its quality, and the AC, NG, and police forces have enough trouble attracting people right now, they don't need yet another compeditor for manpower.

 

If a disaster hits a state then local police and fire services could probably put old men to good use for some tasks in order to free up real cops and other first responders. Creating pseudo-military state guard force does seem silly though.

[Guest JamesG123]

Thats what the National Guard are for... opps. Sorry forgot. They are in Iraq.

[BP]

Thats what the National Guard are for... opps. Sorry forgot. They are in Iraq.

 

The National Guard does have a stated joint State-Federal mission. While I don't disagree with the fact that the Guard is getting used and abused, that is part of their reason for being.

 

State Guards, as goofy as they be at times, can serve a useful role. They augment the state's National Guard forces in times of statewide crisis, they utilize folks who otherwise couldn't serve (physically or due to age), and they keep an active pool of folks who have served in the military doing something worthwhile for their home state. They also aren't truly competing with the same pool of potential military recruits. As long as they don't draw too much on Federal resources, they are harmless. If a state wants to pay them or even offer a retirement, then that is a state's business (they way it should be).

 

So why pattern them after a military force rather than a police force? There is no shortage of surplus military "supplies", and they don't have to be up-to-date, and police forces usually are paid, or have law enforcement-specific roles. And the military model is probably one of the single easiest ways of organizing a large body of people, especially volunteers. Look at the Incident Command System (ICS)- taught from everybody from first responders to large corporations' emergency management employees. It is basically a tailored battalion/brigade staff organization, borrowed wholesale from the CAARNG back in the early 1970s.

 

All that being said, I've met some oddballs in our State Guard, and politely said "thanks, but no thanks" to them the past few years.

[rmgill]

My opinion is that they do NOT need to be funded federally. They should be a state force, funded by the state and beholden to the governor 1st and last. If the governor wants to include them in federal operations, then perhaps it needs to be up for a vote or at the permission of the individual units and members.

 

I like federalism, why does everyone think that needs to be done at the federal level? That's not what it means.

 

I suppose I can see the benefit (and I even generally like Nunn's ideas), but it should happen at the state. Perhaps I need to push that as a pet project as well with my state legislature. Get some training cycles started, a combination of CERT, Technical (like, how to deal with a downed power line) and police/military type training for support of the police and state guard in times of difficulty. AS I've outlined in other threads, such training should be paid for by the state government, certifications noted in a simple book for each member and such members would be volunteers for when things happen. But, there would be heavy encouragement to count their time as paid leave by their company (largess, not mandate).

Edited October 30, 2007 by rmgill

[SCFalken]

AIUI, the goal wasn't Federal control, but support. I.e. transferring surplus gear, giving some funds to the States to allow the State AGs to utilize some Guardsmen as cadre to train/inspect the SDFs. Essentially, providing coherence and capability, through the State.

 

If nothing else, it would give you a pool of personnel to man static posts, hand out supplies and drive trucks, while the cops and Guardsmen concentrate on the bigger picture.

 

Worst case scenario, the Governor has an extra pool of armed and trained personnel to fall back on, if the SHTF.

 

 

Falken

Edited October 30, 2007 by SCFalken

[Guest JamesG123]

Its a nice thought, but...

 

Federal support almost always comes with federal strings attached. If not control, then oversight, etc.

 

In the current defense labor and political environment, a lot of potential recruits for the official state national guards might view a non-deployable-for-dubious-overseas-wars state defense force as a viable alternative, even if the pay and benefits were (are) no where near as good.

[Tyvar]

Its a nice thought, but...

 

Federal support almost always comes with federal strings attached. If not control, then oversight, etc.

 

In the current defense labor and political environment, a lot of potential recruits for the official state national guards might view a non-deployable-for-dubious-overseas-wars state defense force as a viable alternative, even if the pay and benefits were (are) no where near as good.

 

 

At the very least the feds could organize nationwide standards and arrange for training classes to be given. Somewhat advanced first aid training, basic rescue, some technical training to allow them to supplement utility crews in cutting power and gas to effected areas in the event of a natural disaster. Training them in clerking and dispatching tasks, anything that would allow, for those who pass psychological screening you could even do weapons training and security procedures to use them as guards at critical sights, or manning barricade duty at critical sights to free up personnel to try to maintain order.

 

Shoot at the very least mandate that counties bring back their posse's and up their reserves. Standardize training for them, that might make even more sense. During an emergency you could use those people to free up more deputies to be seconded to state duties, without sacrificing local policing.