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Ken's trip to the desert


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It's not even been two weeks yet. Don't get too worried. I had guys in my platoon that were offline for almost a month in Mosul due to the opschedule keeping us away from any sort of internet connection.

 

NTM

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I'm back inside the wire and still not killed:) Was off trying to get out with a strong finish. Had no success, and much strife with higher not wanting to employ us properly. I'll talk about it later, just leaving a self reminder.

 

Nick, those pointed remarks were certainly not aimed at you, I intended them at Stephan, but guess I had a fratricide incident. I try to avoid second guessing anyone here who actually patrols. You missed absolutely nothing by not having to deal with any casualties or witness any dead/wounded Americans. While it's not anything any paramedic doesn't deal with all the time, there's nothing positive seeing human splashed all over the inside of a truck by an IED. The unit that's RIP'ing us is a tank Bn(rein), which is a marked difference from a Marine light inf Bn. BTW, we are the most IED'ed zone in Iraq. They learned to never get into gunfights with us, but they use IED's instead. It's amusing that people talk about only hitting one or two per day.

 

We're getting ready to go home. I fly out in a few days, heading to BIAP for a few weeks and then CA to allow time to decompress before we go home to the families. Going through all the medical/religious/psychological classes right now, trying to cut down on the time spent in CA. We'll see how successful that is. TBD. S/F...Ken M

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I'd be most curious to know how they're planning on using the tanks. I seriously hope they're just looking at using the tanks to support infantry instead of using them as 70-ton HMMWVs as we did.

 

In our experience, the opposition would not attempt to IED a HMMWV if there was a tank driving along in company with it. I guess they were too worried that the tank would spot the trigger man.

 

NTM

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The question was rhetorical Stefan, but it seems to me as if you are simply not believing what I'm telling you about the enemy here. They are savages and animals, they ARE evil. We found a body the day before yesterday that had the heart and lungs cut out, the face burned off with acid, the tongue cut out and what the acid didn't get of his face was pulled off mechanically, probably with pliars or something like that. Nothing but a savage animal does that to a human being.

 

It bothers me that anyone can attribute anything positive to creatures like that.

 

It seems to be overly simplified black and white because it IS just that simple. The insurgents are f**king evil and we're the good guys. We are still human, but even the most stupid examples of US mistreatment of insurgents pale to sheer trivia in comparison. We had one guy who got drunk, went into the detainee tent and kicked a detainee in the face. He's now looking at several years in prison from a general CM, and we completely revamped our detainee handling procedures. All without any media or public outcry, only because it's the right thing to do. There's simply zero comparison.

 

Manic, we pushed combined arms QRF's, but mostly leave the tanks behind. Most spots in the AO are not tank accessible, and those that are have been largely passified. They blow IED's here on everybody: tanks, Brads, Warriors, M1114's, everything. We usually eat them alive when they hit something that has a squad plus dismount element, but that's not a 100% thing. They'll do as they will, it's beyond our control. S/F...Ken M

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Nono...all that which you describe as evil is of course a natural consequence of the trauma broguht about by the American invasion and brtual occupation. How else can you explain the sudden transformation from kind, honest decent Mukhabarat to throat-cutting kidnappers?

 

The European Parliament is right now debating a bill to send councillors and support care peronnel to Syria to help rehibilitate some of these poor victims.

 

Of course they are evil. Does anyone remember any outcry by Amnesty Inetrnational or Human Rights Watch about Abu Ghraid in the Saddam era? Or indeed about the Iraqi Olympic Committee's torture chambers........?

 

No.

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Of course they are evil. Does anyone remember any outcry by Amnesty Inetrnational or Human Rights Watch about Abu Ghraid in the Saddam era? Or indeed about the Iraqi Olympic Committee's torture chambers........?

 

No.

 

Yes.

 

I was collared in the street here by people waving posters about both, & also Syria, Iran - you name it. Every nasty government going. Every Amnesty street stall, I've ever seen is 99% about such regimes, & 1% about iniquities of Western governments.

 

The reason many of the people here don't remember it is because it doesn't get as much press attention as when Amnesty et al complain about something the USA or UK does.

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....

They are savages and animals, they ARE evil.

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My Grandfather fought from Baghdad to Mosul in 1917-8. He had respect for the Turks he was fighting, but all he would say about the locals was, "dirty arabs."

 

The way my father told it, his Dad never cursed, but that phrase sounded like one. I never understood it before, but he ws fighting in the Sunni triangle.

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Manic, I'll most likely be at Camp Pendleton from about 2 April until 9 April, figure two days slop at either end. Not sure how much time I'll have, but I will get into San Clemente for some sushi and maybe a pizza. I rented a Volvo C60 last time I was there and I'm going to try and get one again or maybe a new Mustang GT. With a green card(mil ID), you'll have zero problems getting on base. It's planned that I'll be at Edson Range area, which is IVO mainside. S/F...Ken M

 

Note to self: Remember to write about embark issues and customs/import/risk aversion insanity.

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Ken, in no specific order.

The soldier who will face court-marshall for kicking the prisoner has no one to blame but himself. If there are rules, and the leaders say that you play by them, there will most probably be punishments for those who are caught breaking rules. Simply a good way of maintaining the general appearence of being the good guys.

 

As for you being the good guys and "insurgents" being evil. Yes, the deed you described is indeed "evil", extremely cruel if the victim was alive when it happened, which I assume you found evidence of.

But saying that everyone in Iraq being opposed the US forces is doing stuff like that is like saying that every US soldier committs atrocities just because a few of them do.

 

I do not support unnecessary cruel acts, but I do have empathy for people trying to fight their occupier. If your country was invaded, and government overthrown by force in a way you did not approve of, would you simply roll over? If yes, I can understand if you are surprised some Iraqis fight you. If you would fight back, I would probably have empathy for your actions too - to a certain extent.

 

I mainly look at the big picture: what do I think of the action of a nation occupying another for whatever reasons.

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Good vs. Evil or God vs. Evil? Eh, for many people, it's the same thing.

 

Kinda sad how these terrorist leaders manage to recruit enough brainwashed, hate-filled idiots into doing the bitch work (like the actual suicide part of the suicide bombings, for example). By the time the lowly ones have been disillusioned, it's already too late. Pricks like Zarqawi make me wonder - why? What good or even favorable result (for them) can possibly result from their actions? Do they really think they'll win? They have absolutely no regard for their fellow Arabs, either. How can you kill so many innocent civilians going about their day-to-day lives or trying to rebuild their country? They've been pushed around for so long and now pricks from Al-Qaeda are sending in idiot mongrels from Saudi Arabia, Syria, and Europe to make life worse for everyone.

 

A nationalistic insurgency - that I can understand. But foreigners importing foreigners to make life hell for a struggling people that they don't care for - that's absolute bull. If anyone ever gets their hands on Zarqawi...

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We basically have a war of God V Evil and the sooner the world realises this the better

 

WRW

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Not being snide, but you do mean good I assume. Some might take exception to the notion that the US forces are gods. ;)

 

The problem with your line of reasoning is that it is not the world you have to convince of someone's evilness. You have to convince the people (in Iraq) not agreeing with the US occupation that they (the opposing Iraqis) are evil.

As in my previous post - if you were invaded and you fought your occupier, would you consider yourself evil for that reason?

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Nono...all that which you describe as evil is of course a natural consequence of the trauma broguht about by the American invasion and brtual occupation. How else can you explain the sudden transformation from kind, honest decent Mukhabarat to throat-cutting kidnappers?

...

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Simon, you are so cool, so funny... so witty, I almost smile. But probably not for the reason you intended.

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Stefan, the VAST majority of the insurgents here are fighting purely for self interest. Mainly monetary or political power. We have the common gang type thug groups who conduct a majority of the kidnappings and street extortions who are basically the same as any other street gang save their weaponry. Then you have the FRE types who are simply trying to hang on to political power in the old Hussein style. Then you have the religious zealots, who are primarily foreigners.

 

All these groups want to kick out the US so that they can go back to the comfortable status quo tyranny, they have no real interest in any national identity, perhaps clan level interest at best.

 

I'm not surprised that they fight. I'm usually surprised at the level of sheer craven cowardice that most of these savages display. They are dispicable creatures without honor, at least in this AO.

 

I was not pointing out that incident of detainee abuse in order to solicit pity for the Marine involved, I was using that to point out that we generally police our own, wihtout any need for the media or international bodies to scream bloody murder. S/F...Ken M

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Not being snide, but you do mean good I assume. Some might take exception to the notion that the US forces are gods.  ;)

 

The problem with your line of reasoning is that it is not the world you have to convince of someone's evilness. You have to convince the people (in Iraq) not agreeing with the US occupation that they (the opposing Iraqis) are evil.

As in my previous post - if you were invaded and you fought your occupier, would you consider yourself evil for that reason?

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Stefan, you make me smile. American troops are not gods, not even George W. But you can argue thast we fight on the side of God, any vision of God you prefer except the dark and twisted wahabi version of Allah. And maybe Kali.

 

Convincing the Iraqi resistance tht they are evil es as impossible as convincing the Nazi "werewolves" thay they were evil. We can (already have) convinced most Iraqis the insurgentd are Evil and to help us to stop them. Same as late '40s Germany, and we are making faster porogress than we did then.

 

It helps that most are not really fighting against the occupation, as they kill ten times the number of fellow Iraqis as Coallition troops, postpning the day we can leave.

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We have the common gang type thug groups who conduct a majority of the kidnappings and street extortions who are basically the same as any other street gang save their weaponry. 

 

Sounds like what the IRA's become. Gangsters with a political veneer.

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[=Stefan Fredriksson,Thu 17 Mar 2005  0733]Not being snide, but you do mean good I assume. Some might take exception to the notion that the US forces are gods.  ;)

 

And doubtless that "some" would include you, Stefan. Consequently, it looked pretty snide to me.  If you subscribe to a view I'd suggest you just come right out with it and spare us the dancing around.

 

SNIPAs in my previous post - if you were invaded and you fought your occupier, would you consider yourself evil for that reason?

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Two points. First, your definition of the US/Coalition forces in Iraq as "occupiers" is self-evidently neither valid nor accurate. If it were we would not have seen 8 million or so Iraqis turning out to vote recently, or have large numbers of young men volunteering to sign up for the Iraqi police and military to serve alongside the occupiers. Besides, you could also level the same charge against non-Iraqi "fighters" like al Zarqawi et al, and with far more justification.

 

That aside, it depends on the means you use to fight. Your position would be valid if all violence in Iraq was targetted at the Coalition forces, but the evidence overwhelmingly shows that is not the case. A good deal if not the majority is deliberately directed against Iraqi civilians. You are making the depressingly common error of equating popular resistance directly with politically or religiously motivated terrorism, when the two are not the same thing at all. You appear to be seriously suggesting there is a comparison betwen passive resistance as advocated by Ghandi fro example, and deliberately placing car bombs in market places on market day, or outside mosques to catch worshippers leaving Friday prayers. If someone did something similar in Stockholm would you consider it a legitimate way for the perpetrator to fight against his perceived grievance? I rather suspect not. But that the trouble with the woolly, left-leaning liberal nonsense that pervades Western Europe, it deliberately eschews analysis in favour of oversimplified sloganeering...

 

all the best

 

BillB

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I do not support unnecessary cruel acts, but I do have empathy for people trying to fight their occupier. If your country was invaded, and government overthrown by force in a way you did not approve of, would you simply roll over? If yes, I can understand if you are surprised some Iraqis fight you. If you would fight back, I would probably have empathy for your actions too - to a certain extent.

 

I mainly look at the big picture: what do I think of the action of a nation occupying another for whatever reasons.

154921[/snapback]

 

So you liken Sadam's regime to the Swedish government? You really can't see a difference?

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Sounds like what the IRA's become. Gangsters with a political veneer.

154948[/snapback]

 

Become?

 

BillB

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Not being snide, but you do mean good I assume. Some might take exception to the notion that the US forces are gods.  ;)

 

The problem with your line of reasoning is that it is not the world you have to convince of someone's evilness. You have to convince the people (in Iraq) not agreeing with the US occupation that they (the opposing Iraqis) are evil.

As in my previous post - if you were invaded and you fought your occupier, would you consider yourself evil for that reason?

154924[/snapback]

 

 

I have no problem with fighting the invader

 

I have a problem with forcing people to drive bombs into checkpoints and blowing them up - drive or your family dies, IRA

 

I have problems with flying planes in to buildings

 

incendary bombing night clubs (IRA)

beheading girls because they will not wear a veil

cutting peoples tendons and leaving them bleed to death in the village square (Bangladesh)

 

these are evil

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