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Gents,

 

Question: Does anyone here live near Ft. McNair?

 

The reason I am asking is that I just a response back from the US Army Center of Military History.

 

I asked if they have a Unit Station List for the Army during the period 1985-1990. They said yes, but there are some gaps.

 

If anyone lives near McNair, they can visit there (they don't do research, nor do they do requests). You have to visit in person (arranged well in advance), then they will provide help in getting the material.

 

Copying costs are $0.15 each page.

 

I put in a similar request to the US Ari Force Historial Research Agency. No word back yet.

 

konev

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Gents,

 

Question: Does anyone here live near Ft. McNair?

 

The reason I am asking is that I just a response back from the US Army Center of Military History.

 

I asked if they have a Unit Station List for the Army during the period 1985-1990. They said yes, but there are some gaps.

 

If anyone lives near McNair, they can visit there (they don't do research, nor do they do requests). You have to visit in person (arranged well in advance), then they will provide help in getting the material.

 

Copying costs are $0.15 each page.

 

I put in a similar request to the US Ari Force Historial Research Agency. No word back yet.

 

konev

 

I live about 15 miles north of the city. Given that i still haven't managed to drag my butt over the UMaryland yet, I may not be the most reliable... But drop me the details.

 

Pat

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USAR Aviation units by location for 1st US Army Area:

 

Unit | Location | subordinate to | Aircraft

 

31st Combat Aviation Group | Ft Meade, MD | 97th ARCOM | N/A

 

244th Theater Aviation Group | Glenview, IL | | N/A

 

2-123rd Aviation Battalion | St Paul, MN | 6th Infantry Division | 15 AH-1F, 13 OH-58A, 5 UH-1H

 

3-158th Aviation Battalion | Glenview, IL | 244th TAG | N/A

HHC | Glenview, IL | | N/A

A Co | Selfridge ANGB, MI | | 23 UH-1H

B Co | Waukesha, WI | | 23 UH-1H

C Co | Glenview, IL | | 23 UH-1H

D Co | Glenview, IL | | N/A

 

4-158th Aviation Battalion | Ft Devens, MA | 31st CAG (97th ARCOM) | N/A

A Co | Willow Grove, PA | | 19 UH-1H

Det 1, A Co | Hagerstown, MD | | 4 UH-1H

B Co | Ft Devens, MA | | 23 UH-1H

C Co (-) | Ft Eustis, VA | | 15 UH-1H

Det 1, C Co | Ft Meade, MD | | 8 UH-1H

D Co | Willow Grove, PA | | N/A

 

C Co, 8-158th Av (AVIM) | Green Castle, PA | 31st CAG | 2 UH-1H

 

5-159th Aviation Battalion | Ft Meade, MD | 31st CAG | 1 UH-1

B Co | Ft Meade, MD | 5-159th Av | 16 CH-47D

 

2-228th Aviation Battalion | Willow Grove, PA | 31st CAG (96th ARCOM) | N/A

A Co | Willow Grove, PA | 2-228th Av | 4 U-21A, 2 BE-65, 5 OH-58, 4 UH-1H

Det 1, A Co | Ft Meade, MD | Co A 2-228th | 2 U-21A 1 UH-1H

Det 2, A Co | Ft Devens, MA | 2-228th Av | 2 U-21A

Det 1, B Co | Columbus, OH | 244th TAG | 2 U-21A, 2 UH-1H

Det 2, B Co | Des Moines, IA | 244th TAG | 2 U-21A, 2 UH-1H

 

C Co, 2-502nd Av| Glenview, IL | 244th TAG | 2 UH-60

 

Av Plt, 11th SFG | Ft Meade, MD | 11th Special Forces Group | 2 UH-1H, 4 OH-58A

 

AV Plt 12th SFG | Glenview, IL | 12th Special Forces Group | 2 UH-1H, 4 OH-58A

 

423rd Medical Detachment | Syracuse, NY | 8th Medical Bde (77th ARCOM) | 6 UH-1V

 

336th Medical Detachment | Newburgh, NY | 8th Medical Bde (77th ARCOM) | 6 UH-1V

 

316th Medical Detachment | Elryia, OH | 30th Hospital Group | 6 UH-1V

 

354th Medical Detachment | Columbus, OH | 30th Hospital Group | 6 UH-1V

 

989th Medical Detachment | Des Moines, IA | 30th Hospital Group | 6 UH-1V

Edited by shrike6
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More on the German Orbat:

 

The divisional "Jägerbataillon" had no M113. They only had 2 ton trucks. There was an exception in the 6. Panzergrenadierdivision.

"Jägerbataillon" 66 and 67 were mounted on M113. This two battallions were active units while the battalions of the other divisions had to be mobilized.

The battalions consisted of a "Stabs- und Versorgungskompanie", 3 "Jägerkompanien" and a "Schwere Jägerkompanie" (Heavy) with towed mortars.

 

Information is from a former battalion commander of such an battallion.

 

/major66

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Something more on the French:

 

3 Division Blindee (Freiburg, GE)

 

3 Régiment de Dragons (Stetten a.k.M., GE)

12 Régiment de Cuirassiers (Müllheim/Baden GE)

19 Groupe de Chasseurs (Villingen-Schwenningen, GE)

42 Régiment d' Infanterie (Offenburg, GE)

110 Régiment d' Infanterie (Donaueschingen, GE)

11 Régiment d'Artillerie (Offenburg, GE)

34 Régiment d'Artillerie (Müllheim/Baden, GE)

9 Régiment du Génie (Neuf-Brisach, FR)

3 Régiment de Commandement et de Soutien (Freiburg, GE)

Escadron d'Eclairage Divisionnaire (Stetten a.k.M., GE)

 

Centre d'Entrainement Commando et 131 Régiment d'Infanterie (Breisach, GE) -only in peacetimes-

 

/major66

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Something more on the French:

 

3 Division Blindee (Freiburg, GE)

 

3 Régiment de Dragons (Stetten a.k.M., GE)

12 Régiment de Cuirassiers (Müllheim/Baden GE)

19 Groupe de Chasseurs (Villingen-Schwenningen, GE)

42 Régiment d' Infanterie (Offenburg, GE)

110 Régiment d' Infanterie (Donaueschingen, GE)

11 Régiment d'Artillerie (Offenburg, GE)

34 Régiment d'Artillerie (Müllheim/Baden, GE)

9 Régiment du Génie (Neuf-Brisach, FR)

3 Régiment de Commandement et de Soutien (Freiburg, GE)

Escadron d'Eclairage Divisionnaire (Stetten a.k.M., GE)

 

Centre d'Entrainement Commando et 131 Régiment d'Infanterie (Breisach, GE) -only in peacetimes-

 

/major66

 

Thanks Major -- what's the last one?

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Some more on the French:

 

12 Division Légère Blindée (Saumur)

 

507 Régiment Chars de Combat (Fontevraud) <heavy>

3 Régiment de Chasseurs (Saumur) <light>

114 Régiment d'Infanterie (Saint Maixent) -ENSOA-

3 Régiment Chasseurs Parachutiste (Pau) -ETAP-

33 Régiment d'Artillerie (Poitiers)

1 company of Engineers (from 6 RG, Angers ?)

12 Régiment de Commandement et de Soutien (Tours) -EAT-

 

 

14 Division Légère Blindee (Montpellier

 

11 Régiment Cuirassiers (Carpiagne) <heavy> -CIABC-

1 Régiment de Chasseurs (Canjuers) <light> -CPCIT-

81 Régiment d'Infanterie (Montpellier) -EAI- >>had in fact the role of a Régiment de Comm. & Sout.

3 Régiment d'Infanterie (Garrigues)

4 Régiment d'Entranger (Castelnaudary) -LEGION-

19 Régiment d'Artillerie (Draguignan) -EAA-

1 company of Engineers (from 7 RG, Avignon ?)

 

/major66

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The last one was a training unit for commandos which in wartimes formed an infantrie regiment.

 

/major66

 

As always, thanks for the info. Would that have formed part of the division, or would have it been an independent unit?

 

Pat

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More on the German Orbat:

 

The divisional "Jägerbataillon" had no M113. They only had 2 ton trucks. There was an exception in the 6. Panzergrenadierdivision.

"Jägerbataillon" 66 and 67 were mounted on M113. This two battallions were active units while the battalions of the other divisions had to be mobilized.

The battalions consisted of a "Stabs- und Versorgungskompanie", 3 "Jägerkompanien" and a "Schwere Jägerkompanie" (Heavy) with towed mortars.

 

Information is from a former battalion commander of such an battallion.

 

/major66

 

Are we sure that the both jaeger battalions in trucks was an ongoing and not timebound decision. I say this because multiple sources and previous posts by tanknetters suggest that 1 battalion had M113s and 1 trucks. Might it be that at the time the said former battalion commander was operating they were both trucks but this later changed?

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Are we sure that the both jaeger battalions in trucks was an ongoing and not timebound decision. I say this because multiple sources and previous posts by tanknetters suggest that 1 battalion had M113s and 1 trucks. Might it be that at the time the said former battalion commander was operating they were both trucks but this later changed?

 

I'll second this query and had been trying to find info on this myself. It looks like the 1 and 1 organization was definately the plan, but I'm not clear if it was ever implemented.

 

Pat

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I found this very detailed 4CMBG OOB for about 1980, the numbers should also be true for the late 80s:

 

4 Canadian Mechanized Brigade Group (4 CMBG) about 1980

 

First Regiment, Royal Canadian Horse Artillery (1 RCHA )

 

OFFR 38

OR 455

(TOTAL PERS 493)

M-109 SPH 24

M-578 RVT 4

M-113 APC 42

M-548 CCT 24

M-577 CCP 8

MOTOR CYCLE 3

JEEP 24

TRUCK 1 ¼ TON 41

TRUCK 2 ½ TON 21

TRUCK 5 TON 18

MAW 84 mm CARL GUSTAV 15

HMG .50 CAL 28

GPMG 7.62 mm 75

VLLAD BLOWPIPE 15

 

Only 18 fully manned guns as one bty manned by caretaker elements only.

 

Royal Canadian Dragoons (RCD)

 

OFFR 33

OR 422

(TOTAL PERS 455)

LEOPARD C1 59

TAURUS (LEOPARD) ARV 3

M-578 RVT 1

LYNX 24

M-113 APC 23

M-548 CCT 18

M-577 CCP 3

MOTOR CYCLE 3

JEEP 16

TRUCK 1 ¼ TON 33

TRUCK 2 ½ TON 36

TRUCK 5 TON 17

MAW 84 mm CARL GUSTAV 18

HMG .50 CAL 24

GPMG 7.62 mm 188

AN/PS-15 (V) 2 5

 

 

4 Combat Engineer Regiment (4 CER)

 

OFFR 10

OR 177

(TOTAL PERS 187)

BIBER AVLB 3

LYNX 3

M-113 APC 19

M-548 CCT 5

M-577 CCP 1

MOTOR CYCLE 3

JEEP 7

TRUCK 1 ¼ TON 13

TRUCK 2 ½ TON 15

TRUCK 5 TON 10

SEMI TRAILER2O T LOW BED 1

MAW 84 mm CARL GUSTAV 4

HMG .50 CAL 3

GPMG 7.62 mm 31

AN/PS-15 (V) 2 3

CRANE 25 TON 1

GRADER MOTORIZED 1

LOADER SCOOP WHEELED 2

BULLDOZER 2

 

4 CMBG Headquarters and Signals Squadron (HQ & SIG SQN)

 

OFFR 23

OR 178

(TOTAL PERS 201)

M-113 APC 13

M-548 CCT 1

M-577 CCP 4

JEEP 22

TRUCK 1 ¼ TON 26

TRUCK 2 ½ TON 40

TRUCK 5 TON 3

TOTAL WH VEH 91

TOTAL APC/TRUCK 109

MAW 84 mm CARL GUSTAV 4

HMG .50 CAL 2

GPMG 7.62 mm 8

AN/PS-15 (V) 2 4

 

Third Battalion, The Royal Canadian Regiment (3 RCR)

 

OFFR 33

OR 549

(TOTAL PERS 582)

LYNX 11

M-113 APC 90

M-548 CCT 8

M-577 CCP 3

JEEP 13

TRUCK 1 ¼ TON 20

TRUCK 2 ½ TON 25

TRUCK 5 TON 6

TOW ATGM 18

MAW 84 mm CARL GUSTAV 66

HMG .50 CAL 101

GPMG 7.62 mm 34

MOR 81 mm 8

MOR 60 mm 12

AN/PS-15 (V) 2 11

 

Premiere Batallion Royal Vingt-et-deuxieme Regiment (1 R 22e R)

 

OFFR 33

OR 549

(TOTAL PERS 582)

LYNX 11

M-113 APC 90

M-548 CCT 8

M-577 CCP 3

JEEP 13

TRUCK 1 ¼ TON 20

TRUCK 2 ½ TON 25

TRUCK 5 TON 6

TOW ATGM 18

MAW 84 mm CARL GUSTAV 66

HMG .50 CAL 101

GPMG 7.62 mm 34

MOR 81 mm 8

MOR 60 mm 12

AN/PS-15 (V) 2 11

 

4 Service Battalion (4 SVC BN)

 

OFFR 30

OR 480

(TOTAL PERS 510)

TAURUS (LEOPARD) ARV 2

M-113 APC 6

MOTOR CYCLE 4

JEEP 26

TRUCK 1 ¼ TON 67

TRUCK 2 ½ TON 107

TRUCK 5 TON 92

SEMI TRAILER2O T LOW BED 5

SEMI TRAILER5000 GAL FUEL 6

MAW 84 mm CARL GUSTAV 22

 

4 Field Ambulance (4 FD AMB)

 

OFFR 9

OR 86

(TOTAL PERS 95)

M-113 APC 4

JEEP 3

TRUCK 1 ¼ TON 24

TRUCK 2 ½ TON 9

TRUCK 5 TON 4

TOTAL WH VEH 40

GPMG 7.62 mm 4

 

4 Military Police Platoon (4 MP PL)

 

OFFR 1

OR 29

(TOTAL PERS 30)

MOTOR CYCLE 4

JEEP 11

TRUCK 1 ¼ TON 3

TRUCK 2 ½ TON 2

TOTAL WH VEH 20

GPMG 7.62 mm 2

 

444 Tactical Helicopter Squadron (444 TAC HEL SQN)

 

OFFR 17

OR 74

(TOTAL PERS 91)

JEEP 5

TRUCK 1 ¼ TON 15

TRUCK 2 ½ TON 18

TRUCK 5 TON 5

TOTAL WH VEH 43

CH-136 11

MAW 84 mm CARL GUSTAV 2

 

4 CMBG TOTAL

 

OFFR 227

OR 2999

(TOTAL PERS 3,226)

LEOPARD C1 59

LEOPARD ARV 5

BIBER AVLB 3

M-109 SPH 24

M-578 RVT 5

LYNX 49

M-113 APC 287

M-548 CCT 64

M-577 CCP 22

MOTOR CYCLE 17

JEEP 140

TRUCK 1 ¼ TON 262

TRUCK 2 ½ TON 298

TRUCK 5 TON 161

SEMI TRAILER2O T LOW BED 6

SEMI TRAILER5000 GAL FUEL 6

CH-136 11

TOW ATGM 36

MAW 84 mm CARL GUSTAV 197

HMG .50 CAL 259

GPMG 7.62 mm 376

MOR 81 mm C3 16

MOR 60 mm 24

VLLAD BLOWPIPE 15

AN/PS-15 (V) 2 34

CRANE 25 TON 1

GRADER MOTORIZED 1

LOADER SCOOP WHEELED 2

BULLDOZER 2

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some new corrections on italians:

Agordo, Conegliano, Sondrio, Aosta, Asiago Heavy Artillery Groups are named Mountain Artillery Groups instead, though with heavy artillery.

Val Brenta Alpini Defense Battalion (cadre) has 14 Companies, not 4.

Ariete Armored Brigade has its command in Aviano, not Pordenone.

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I'll second this query and had been trying to find info on this myself. It looks like the 1 and 1 organization was definately the plan, but I'm not clear if it was ever implemented.

 

Pat

Where is your information from ?

I will check it.

 

The battalions No. 26, 27, 56 and 57 were definitly mounted on 2 ton trucks.

The chronicles of 4th, 7th, 10th and 11th divisions do not mention MTW's in their "Jägerbataillone".

Their main task was combat in urban and rough areas.

 

The 1 and 1 organization I know from the Heimatschutzbrigades 51 to 55.

The xx1 battalion was truck mounted and the xx2 had M113.

HSBrig 56, Neuburg/Donau had "Marder" in both battalions.

 

The battalions of HSBrig. of the 6-series were both truck mounted.

This brigades should operate against air-landings and breakthroughs.

 

The battalions of HSReg. were all truck mounted. Most of the trucks were in wartimes organized from civilian firms.

The HS-Regiments had the main task of "Raumschutz".

 

I am trying to look for more infos.

The battalion commander will be back in 2 weeks.

 

Besides that I found something new about the french territorial R.I.A.D.'s.

I will post it later.

 

/major66

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French R.I.A.D.'s (Régiment Interarmes Divisionnaire)

 

Region - Regiment

 

Nord Pas-de-Calais - 243

Picardie - 54

Haute Normandie - 239

Basse Normandie - 2

Bretagne - 48

Pays-de-la-Loire - 137

Centre Val-de-Loire - 90 or 95 ?

Poitou-Charentes - 107

Aquitaine - 144

Midi-Pyrénées - 15

Languedoc - 142 ?

Provence - 141

Rhône-Alpes - 299

Auvergne - 292

Limousin - 100

Bourgogne - 10

Franche Comté - 60

Lorraine - 37

Alsace ?

Champagne-Ardenne ?

Ile-de-France ?

Corse - 173 + 373

 

All in all 23 regiments.

 

/major66

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I´d love to know what exactly changed in 4CMBG... :)

Sure, although I'm pretty sure we had a long discussion about 4CMBG on tanknet not long ago.

 

For starters, in the timeframe of Pat's OB (1989) RCD had been replaced by 8th Canadian Hussars as the armoured regiment. 3RCR had been replaced by 2PPCLI as one of the two mech battalions. The M150 TOW had been replaced by TUA (TOWII). Additional manning allowed each mech battalion to permanently field 4 rifle companies, and the artillery regiment could field all 24 of its guns.

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Ok, actually it was me who remarked about 8th CH being the replacement for RCD. No to the 2PPCLI, 3RCR returned back to Germany at the late 80s. The M150s being replaced by TUAs doesn´t change the numbers of vehicles-still 18 for each battalion. That the rifle cos and the battery were permanently filled up doesn´t change the equipment numbers too. Do you have any information about the CAST brigade concept? The OOB says nothing about it so I assumed it was dropped by 1988 or 1989?

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Pat,

 

Do you have an exact date for the US Air Force Active and Reserve formations?

 

The reason I have asking is this....if you can't get official documents, check the Yellow Pages, or in the case of the US Air Force, AFR 4-16 AIR FORCE ADDRESS DIRECTORY dated 1 March 1989.

 

Here's the link to it (its on line): http://www.usafpatches.com/pubs/afr4-16(1Mar89).pdf

 

[Hint, you got your work cut out for you :):):)]

 

konev

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