konev Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 Gents, Question: Does anyone here live near Ft. McNair? The reason I am asking is that I just a response back from the US Army Center of Military History. I asked if they have a Unit Station List for the Army during the period 1985-1990. They said yes, but there are some gaps. If anyone lives near McNair, they can visit there (they don't do research, nor do they do requests). You have to visit in person (arranged well in advance), then they will provide help in getting the material. Copying costs are $0.15 each page. I put in a similar request to the US Ari Force Historial Research Agency. No word back yet. konev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCallahan Posted March 26, 2007 Author Share Posted March 26, 2007 Gents, Question: Does anyone here live near Ft. McNair? The reason I am asking is that I just a response back from the US Army Center of Military History. I asked if they have a Unit Station List for the Army during the period 1985-1990. They said yes, but there are some gaps. If anyone lives near McNair, they can visit there (they don't do research, nor do they do requests). You have to visit in person (arranged well in advance), then they will provide help in getting the material. Copying costs are $0.15 each page. I put in a similar request to the US Ari Force Historial Research Agency. No word back yet. konev I live about 15 miles north of the city. Given that i still haven't managed to drag my butt over the UMaryland yet, I may not be the most reliable... But drop me the details. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
konev Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 Pat, wilco via e-mail konev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrike6 Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 If there's any documents at the University of Nebraska you might find helpful let me know. Heres the search link. http://iris.unl.edu/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrike6 Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 (edited) USAR Aviation units by location for 1st US Army Area: Unit | Location | subordinate to | Aircraft 31st Combat Aviation Group | Ft Meade, MD | 97th ARCOM | N/A 244th Theater Aviation Group | Glenview, IL | | N/A 2-123rd Aviation Battalion | St Paul, MN | 6th Infantry Division | 15 AH-1F, 13 OH-58A, 5 UH-1H 3-158th Aviation Battalion | Glenview, IL | 244th TAG | N/AHHC | Glenview, IL | | N/AA Co | Selfridge ANGB, MI | | 23 UH-1HB Co | Waukesha, WI | | 23 UH-1HC Co | Glenview, IL | | 23 UH-1HD Co | Glenview, IL | | N/A 4-158th Aviation Battalion | Ft Devens, MA | 31st CAG (97th ARCOM) | N/AA Co | Willow Grove, PA | | 19 UH-1HDet 1, A Co | Hagerstown, MD | | 4 UH-1HB Co | Ft Devens, MA | | 23 UH-1HC Co (-) | Ft Eustis, VA | | 15 UH-1HDet 1, C Co | Ft Meade, MD | | 8 UH-1HD Co | Willow Grove, PA | | N/A C Co, 8-158th Av (AVIM) | Green Castle, PA | 31st CAG | 2 UH-1H 5-159th Aviation Battalion | Ft Meade, MD | 31st CAG | 1 UH-1B Co | Ft Meade, MD | 5-159th Av | 16 CH-47D 2-228th Aviation Battalion | Willow Grove, PA | 31st CAG (96th ARCOM) | N/AA Co | Willow Grove, PA | 2-228th Av | 4 U-21A, 2 BE-65, 5 OH-58, 4 UH-1HDet 1, A Co | Ft Meade, MD | Co A 2-228th | 2 U-21A 1 UH-1HDet 2, A Co | Ft Devens, MA | 2-228th Av | 2 U-21ADet 1, B Co | Columbus, OH | 244th TAG | 2 U-21A, 2 UH-1HDet 2, B Co | Des Moines, IA | 244th TAG | 2 U-21A, 2 UH-1H C Co, 2-502nd Av| Glenview, IL | 244th TAG | 2 UH-60 Av Plt, 11th SFG | Ft Meade, MD | 11th Special Forces Group | 2 UH-1H, 4 OH-58A AV Plt 12th SFG | Glenview, IL | 12th Special Forces Group | 2 UH-1H, 4 OH-58A 423rd Medical Detachment | Syracuse, NY | 8th Medical Bde (77th ARCOM) | 6 UH-1V 336th Medical Detachment | Newburgh, NY | 8th Medical Bde (77th ARCOM) | 6 UH-1V 316th Medical Detachment | Elryia, OH | 30th Hospital Group | 6 UH-1V 354th Medical Detachment | Columbus, OH | 30th Hospital Group | 6 UH-1V 989th Medical Detachment | Des Moines, IA | 30th Hospital Group | 6 UH-1V Edited March 27, 2007 by shrike6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
major66 Posted March 29, 2007 Share Posted March 29, 2007 More on the German Orbat: The divisional "Jägerbataillon" had no M113. They only had 2 ton trucks. There was an exception in the 6. Panzergrenadierdivision."Jägerbataillon" 66 and 67 were mounted on M113. This two battallions were active units while the battalions of the other divisions had to be mobilized.The battalions consisted of a "Stabs- und Versorgungskompanie", 3 "Jägerkompanien" and a "Schwere Jägerkompanie" (Heavy) with towed mortars. Information is from a former battalion commander of such an battallion. /major66 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
major66 Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 Something more on the French: 3 Division Blindee (Freiburg, GE) 3 Régiment de Dragons (Stetten a.k.M., GE)12 Régiment de Cuirassiers (Müllheim/Baden GE)19 Groupe de Chasseurs (Villingen-Schwenningen, GE)42 Régiment d' Infanterie (Offenburg, GE)110 Régiment d' Infanterie (Donaueschingen, GE)11 Régiment d'Artillerie (Offenburg, GE)34 Régiment d'Artillerie (Müllheim/Baden, GE)9 Régiment du Génie (Neuf-Brisach, FR)3 Régiment de Commandement et de Soutien (Freiburg, GE)Escadron d'Eclairage Divisionnaire (Stetten a.k.M., GE) Centre d'Entrainement Commando et 131 Régiment d'Infanterie (Breisach, GE) -only in peacetimes- /major66 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCallahan Posted April 3, 2007 Author Share Posted April 3, 2007 Something more on the French: 3 Division Blindee (Freiburg, GE) 3 Régiment de Dragons (Stetten a.k.M., GE)12 Régiment de Cuirassiers (Müllheim/Baden GE)19 Groupe de Chasseurs (Villingen-Schwenningen, GE)42 Régiment d' Infanterie (Offenburg, GE)110 Régiment d' Infanterie (Donaueschingen, GE)11 Régiment d'Artillerie (Offenburg, GE)34 Régiment d'Artillerie (Müllheim/Baden, GE)9 Régiment du Génie (Neuf-Brisach, FR)3 Régiment de Commandement et de Soutien (Freiburg, GE)Escadron d'Eclairage Divisionnaire (Stetten a.k.M., GE) Centre d'Entrainement Commando et 131 Régiment d'Infanterie (Breisach, GE) -only in peacetimes- /major66 Thanks Major -- what's the last one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
major66 Posted April 4, 2007 Share Posted April 4, 2007 Thanks Major -- what's the last one?The last one was a training unit for commandos which in wartimes formed an infantrie regiment. /major66 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
major66 Posted April 4, 2007 Share Posted April 4, 2007 Some more on the French: 12 Division Légère Blindée (Saumur) 507 Régiment Chars de Combat (Fontevraud) <heavy>3 Régiment de Chasseurs (Saumur) <light>114 Régiment d'Infanterie (Saint Maixent) -ENSOA-3 Régiment Chasseurs Parachutiste (Pau) -ETAP-33 Régiment d'Artillerie (Poitiers)1 company of Engineers (from 6 RG, Angers ?)12 Régiment de Commandement et de Soutien (Tours) -EAT- 14 Division Légère Blindee (Montpellier 11 Régiment Cuirassiers (Carpiagne) <heavy> -CIABC-1 Régiment de Chasseurs (Canjuers) <light> -CPCIT-81 Régiment d'Infanterie (Montpellier) -EAI- >>had in fact the role of a Régiment de Comm. & Sout.3 Régiment d'Infanterie (Garrigues)4 Régiment d'Entranger (Castelnaudary) -LEGION-19 Régiment d'Artillerie (Draguignan) -EAA-1 company of Engineers (from 7 RG, Avignon ?) /major66 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCallahan Posted April 4, 2007 Author Share Posted April 4, 2007 The last one was a training unit for commandos which in wartimes formed an infantrie regiment. /major66 As always, thanks for the info. Would that have formed part of the division, or would have it been an independent unit? Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakec Posted April 4, 2007 Share Posted April 4, 2007 More on the German Orbat: The divisional "Jägerbataillon" had no M113. They only had 2 ton trucks. There was an exception in the 6. Panzergrenadierdivision."Jägerbataillon" 66 and 67 were mounted on M113. This two battallions were active units while the battalions of the other divisions had to be mobilized.The battalions consisted of a "Stabs- und Versorgungskompanie", 3 "Jägerkompanien" and a "Schwere Jägerkompanie" (Heavy) with towed mortars. Information is from a former battalion commander of such an battallion. /major66 Are we sure that the both jaeger battalions in trucks was an ongoing and not timebound decision. I say this because multiple sources and previous posts by tanknetters suggest that 1 battalion had M113s and 1 trucks. Might it be that at the time the said former battalion commander was operating they were both trucks but this later changed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCallahan Posted April 4, 2007 Author Share Posted April 4, 2007 Are we sure that the both jaeger battalions in trucks was an ongoing and not timebound decision. I say this because multiple sources and previous posts by tanknetters suggest that 1 battalion had M113s and 1 trucks. Might it be that at the time the said former battalion commander was operating they were both trucks but this later changed? I'll second this query and had been trying to find info on this myself. It looks like the 1 and 1 organization was definately the plan, but I'm not clear if it was ever implemented. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemolitionMan Posted April 4, 2007 Share Posted April 4, 2007 I found this very detailed 4CMBG OOB for about 1980, the numbers should also be true for the late 80s: 4 Canadian Mechanized Brigade Group (4 CMBG) about 1980 First Regiment, Royal Canadian Horse Artillery (1 RCHA ) OFFR 38OR 455(TOTAL PERS 493)M-109 SPH 24M-578 RVT 4M-113 APC 42M-548 CCT 24M-577 CCP 8MOTOR CYCLE 3JEEP 24TRUCK 1 ¼ TON 41TRUCK 2 ½ TON 21TRUCK 5 TON 18MAW 84 mm CARL GUSTAV 15HMG .50 CAL 28GPMG 7.62 mm 75VLLAD BLOWPIPE 15 Only 18 fully manned guns as one bty manned by caretaker elements only. Royal Canadian Dragoons (RCD) OFFR 33OR 422(TOTAL PERS 455)LEOPARD C1 59TAURUS (LEOPARD) ARV 3M-578 RVT 1LYNX 24M-113 APC 23M-548 CCT 18M-577 CCP 3MOTOR CYCLE 3JEEP 16TRUCK 1 ¼ TON 33TRUCK 2 ½ TON 36TRUCK 5 TON 17MAW 84 mm CARL GUSTAV 18HMG .50 CAL 24GPMG 7.62 mm 188AN/PS-15 (V) 2 5 4 Combat Engineer Regiment (4 CER) OFFR 10OR 177(TOTAL PERS 187)BIBER AVLB 3LYNX 3M-113 APC 19M-548 CCT 5M-577 CCP 1MOTOR CYCLE 3JEEP 7TRUCK 1 ¼ TON 13TRUCK 2 ½ TON 15TRUCK 5 TON 10SEMI TRAILER2O T LOW BED 1MAW 84 mm CARL GUSTAV 4HMG .50 CAL 3GPMG 7.62 mm 31AN/PS-15 (V) 2 3CRANE 25 TON 1GRADER MOTORIZED 1LOADER SCOOP WHEELED 2BULLDOZER 2 4 CMBG Headquarters and Signals Squadron (HQ & SIG SQN) OFFR 23OR 178(TOTAL PERS 201)M-113 APC 13M-548 CCT 1M-577 CCP 4JEEP 22TRUCK 1 ¼ TON 26TRUCK 2 ½ TON 40TRUCK 5 TON 3TOTAL WH VEH 91TOTAL APC/TRUCK 109MAW 84 mm CARL GUSTAV 4HMG .50 CAL 2GPMG 7.62 mm 8AN/PS-15 (V) 2 4 Third Battalion, The Royal Canadian Regiment (3 RCR) OFFR 33OR 549(TOTAL PERS 582)LYNX 11M-113 APC 90M-548 CCT 8M-577 CCP 3JEEP 13TRUCK 1 ¼ TON 20TRUCK 2 ½ TON 25TRUCK 5 TON 6TOW ATGM 18MAW 84 mm CARL GUSTAV 66HMG .50 CAL 101GPMG 7.62 mm 34MOR 81 mm 8MOR 60 mm 12AN/PS-15 (V) 2 11 Premiere Batallion Royal Vingt-et-deuxieme Regiment (1 R 22e R) OFFR 33OR 549(TOTAL PERS 582)LYNX 11M-113 APC 90M-548 CCT 8M-577 CCP 3JEEP 13TRUCK 1 ¼ TON 20TRUCK 2 ½ TON 25TRUCK 5 TON 6TOW ATGM 18MAW 84 mm CARL GUSTAV 66HMG .50 CAL 101GPMG 7.62 mm 34MOR 81 mm 8MOR 60 mm 12AN/PS-15 (V) 2 11 4 Service Battalion (4 SVC BN) OFFR 30OR 480(TOTAL PERS 510)TAURUS (LEOPARD) ARV 2M-113 APC 6MOTOR CYCLE 4JEEP 26TRUCK 1 ¼ TON 67TRUCK 2 ½ TON 107TRUCK 5 TON 92SEMI TRAILER2O T LOW BED 5SEMI TRAILER5000 GAL FUEL 6MAW 84 mm CARL GUSTAV 22 4 Field Ambulance (4 FD AMB) OFFR 9OR 86(TOTAL PERS 95)M-113 APC 4JEEP 3TRUCK 1 ¼ TON 24TRUCK 2 ½ TON 9TRUCK 5 TON 4TOTAL WH VEH 40GPMG 7.62 mm 4 4 Military Police Platoon (4 MP PL) OFFR 1OR 29(TOTAL PERS 30)MOTOR CYCLE 4JEEP 11TRUCK 1 ¼ TON 3TRUCK 2 ½ TON 2TOTAL WH VEH 20GPMG 7.62 mm 2 444 Tactical Helicopter Squadron (444 TAC HEL SQN) OFFR 17OR 74(TOTAL PERS 91)JEEP 5TRUCK 1 ¼ TON 15TRUCK 2 ½ TON 18TRUCK 5 TON 5TOTAL WH VEH 43CH-136 11MAW 84 mm CARL GUSTAV 2 4 CMBG TOTAL OFFR 227OR 2999(TOTAL PERS 3,226)LEOPARD C1 59LEOPARD ARV 5BIBER AVLB 3M-109 SPH 24M-578 RVT 5LYNX 49M-113 APC 287M-548 CCT 64M-577 CCP 22MOTOR CYCLE 17JEEP 140TRUCK 1 ¼ TON 262TRUCK 2 ½ TON 298TRUCK 5 TON 161SEMI TRAILER2O T LOW BED 6SEMI TRAILER5000 GAL FUEL 6CH-136 11TOW ATGM 36MAW 84 mm CARL GUSTAV 197HMG .50 CAL 259GPMG 7.62 mm 376MOR 81 mm C3 16MOR 60 mm 24VLLAD BLOWPIPE 15AN/PS-15 (V) 2 34CRANE 25 TON 1GRADER MOTORIZED 1LOADER SCOOP WHEELED 2BULLDOZER 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakec Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 I found this very detailed 4CMBG OOB for about 1980, the numbers should also be true for the late 80s: Unfortunately not. 4CMBG had significant changes in the mid-1980s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brummbaer Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 some new corrections on italians:Agordo, Conegliano, Sondrio, Aosta, Asiago Heavy Artillery Groups are named Mountain Artillery Groups instead, though with heavy artillery.Val Brenta Alpini Defense Battalion (cadre) has 14 Companies, not 4.Ariete Armored Brigade has its command in Aviano, not Pordenone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
major66 Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 I'll second this query and had been trying to find info on this myself. It looks like the 1 and 1 organization was definately the plan, but I'm not clear if it was ever implemented. PatWhere is your information from ?I will check it. The battalions No. 26, 27, 56 and 57 were definitly mounted on 2 ton trucks.The chronicles of 4th, 7th, 10th and 11th divisions do not mention MTW's in their "Jägerbataillone". Their main task was combat in urban and rough areas. The 1 and 1 organization I know from the Heimatschutzbrigades 51 to 55.The xx1 battalion was truck mounted and the xx2 had M113.HSBrig 56, Neuburg/Donau had "Marder" in both battalions. The battalions of HSBrig. of the 6-series were both truck mounted.This brigades should operate against air-landings and breakthroughs. The battalions of HSReg. were all truck mounted. Most of the trucks were in wartimes organized from civilian firms.The HS-Regiments had the main task of "Raumschutz". I am trying to look for more infos.The battalion commander will be back in 2 weeks. Besides that I found something new about the french territorial R.I.A.D.'s.I will post it later. /major66 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
major66 Posted April 6, 2007 Share Posted April 6, 2007 French R.I.A.D.'s (Régiment Interarmes Divisionnaire) Region - Regiment Nord Pas-de-Calais - 243Picardie - 54Haute Normandie - 239Basse Normandie - 2Bretagne - 48Pays-de-la-Loire - 137Centre Val-de-Loire - 90 or 95 ?Poitou-Charentes - 107Aquitaine - 144Midi-Pyrénées - 15Languedoc - 142 ?Provence - 141Rhône-Alpes - 299Auvergne - 292Limousin - 100Bourgogne - 10Franche Comté - 60Lorraine - 37Alsace ?Champagne-Ardenne ?Ile-de-France ?Corse - 173 + 373 All in all 23 regiments. /major66 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemolitionMan Posted April 6, 2007 Share Posted April 6, 2007 Unfortunately not. 4CMBG had significant changes in the mid-1980s. I´d love to know what exactly changed in 4CMBG... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakec Posted April 6, 2007 Share Posted April 6, 2007 I´d love to know what exactly changed in 4CMBG... Sure, although I'm pretty sure we had a long discussion about 4CMBG on tanknet not long ago. For starters, in the timeframe of Pat's OB (1989) RCD had been replaced by 8th Canadian Hussars as the armoured regiment. 3RCR had been replaced by 2PPCLI as one of the two mech battalions. The M150 TOW had been replaced by TUA (TOWII). Additional manning allowed each mech battalion to permanently field 4 rifle companies, and the artillery regiment could field all 24 of its guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemolitionMan Posted April 6, 2007 Share Posted April 6, 2007 Ok, actually it was me who remarked about 8th CH being the replacement for RCD. No to the 2PPCLI, 3RCR returned back to Germany at the late 80s. The M150s being replaced by TUAs doesn´t change the numbers of vehicles-still 18 for each battalion. That the rifle cos and the battery were permanently filled up doesn´t change the equipment numbers too. Do you have any information about the CAST brigade concept? The OOB says nothing about it so I assumed it was dropped by 1988 or 1989? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
konev Posted April 7, 2007 Share Posted April 7, 2007 Pat, Do you have an exact date for the US Air Force Active and Reserve formations? The reason I have asking is this....if you can't get official documents, check the Yellow Pages, or in the case of the US Air Force, AFR 4-16 AIR FORCE ADDRESS DIRECTORY dated 1 March 1989. Here's the link to it (its on line): http://www.usafpatches.com/pubs/afr4-16(1Mar89).pdf [Hint, you got your work cut out for you :)] konev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemolitionMan Posted April 8, 2007 Share Posted April 8, 2007 I noticed that 409 Squadron of the Canadian Air Force is still listed as being canadian-based. In fact it was stationed in Germany from 1985 onwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCallahan Posted April 12, 2007 Author Share Posted April 12, 2007 OK guys -- I'm starting to get through all of this now that I'm back from vacation. All good stuff. Shrike -- any more from the file? Thanks, Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
konev Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 Pat, Save the US Air Force section for last and only if you have to. I'm working through the address directory (link posted eariler). konev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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