Su-30MK2 deliverd to Venezuela

[Guest pfcem]

http://www.air-attack.com/news/news_articl...-Venezuela.html

 

Russia starts supplies of Su-30 fighters to Venezuela

 

MOSCOW, November 30 (RIA Novosti) - Russia has shipped the first two Su-30MK2 multi-role fighters to Venezuela under a contract signed in July 2006, an aircraft manufacturing industry official said Thursday.

 

Russia signed $1-billion contracts on supplies of 24 Su-30MK2 Flanker fighters and 30 helicopters to Venezuela prior to this year's visit to Russia by Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, triggering criticism from Washington, which regards the Venezuelan regime as a potential security threat in the region.

 

"The first Su-30MK2 fighters for the Venezuelan air force have been transported to Moscow by an An-124 Condor transport plane, and later they will be shipped to Venezuela," the official said, adding that two more fighters will be delivered to the Latin American country by the end of 2006.

 

Russian-made fighters will substitute American F-16 and French Mirage fighters currently deployed by the Venezuelan air force.

 

The Su-30MK2 is an export version of a formidable Su-27 Flanker air-superiority fighter capable of accomplishing a wide variety of combat missions at significant distances from the home base, in any weather conditions and severe jamming environment, both by day and night.

[pit]

F-16A Block15 (upgraded ) would not be replaced by Su-30MK2. They will soldier in till the end.

 

First 2 Flanker arrived here last tuesday still no good pics aside some video footage. Elections are turning attention here. A total of 4 Flanker will be received this year.

[Chris Werb]

I'm in the peanut gallery waiting for someone to call for immediate military action against Venezuela.

[pit]

I'm in the peanut gallery waiting for someone to call for immediate military action against Venezuela.

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Inmediate military action against MY country would mean no more posts by Pit and be sure that would cause the hell storm across the planet

[DB]

I'm in the peanut gallery waiting for someone to call for immediate military action against Venezuela.

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They're waiting for the results of the elections to be called free and fair.

 

On a related note, I don't believe that I've ever heard a BBC reporter be quite so guarded when asked a couple of questions from the studio about the election, or anything quite so sycophantic as the description of Chavez' holiness by the person who followed the chat.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/aod/mainframe.s...weekendnews_sun

 

For me, the fast forward buttons only work in IE, not Firefox.

 

The coverage starts at around 48 minutes.

 

The two questions:

 

"So, they are considered fair elections?"

"That's not for me or the BBC to decide, that's for the election's monitors from <etc.)

 

"And this election is thought to be quite close isn't it?"

"Umm, I wouldn't be able to talk about how close or how wide uh, the uh, margin [is], because [...] at this stage we have to wait for the first official results"

 

The sycophant is Larry Binns - something to do with a Hemispheric Studies group?

 

US military personnel will just love the bit around 51 min. - apparently Mr Binns likes to compare the inhumanity of the UCMJ wrt treason charges with Chavez' benevolence towards the Army officers involved in the coup attempt against him. Most curious.

 

David

 

and

[Rod]

These Flankers were delivered pretty fast given that the contract was signed in July. Are they from Russian stocks or new builds? I would aslo think that the training of pilots and mechanics would also take longer than 5 months. Unless of course there are Russians in Venezuela servicing the aircraft and providing other logistical support.

[pit]

These Flankers were delivered pretty fast given that the contract was signed in July. Are they from Russian stocks or new builds? I would aslo think that the training of pilots and mechanics would also take longer than 5 months. Unless of course there are Russians in Venezuela servicing the aircraft and providing other logistical support.

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Brand new.

 

Military mission includede 96 personal from the various Venezuelan Air Force Fighter Groups (11, 12, 16), first military mission departed to Russia accord to some sources July 12 2005 with 6 pilots and u/k number of technicians. First comercial contactcs between Sukhoi and Ven Government were done November that year (it seems before it was Rosoboronexport-GoV) deliveries will span till mid 2008.

 

They're asigned to FIghter Aviation Group 13 "Libertado Simon Bolivar" at Base Aérea Teniente Luis del Valle Garcia (BAVALLE) at Barcelona, eastern coast.

[Rod]

They're asigned to FIghter Aviation Group 13 "Libertado Simon Bolivar" at Base Aérea Teniente Luis del Valle Garcia (BAVALLE) at Barcelona, eastern coast.

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Interesting that they put the Flankers in this airbase rather than in Barquisimeto. Are we going to see Venezuelan Flankers trying to challenge the US Navy in the Caribean?

[Guest pfcem]

What I found most interesting is that they are the "advanced" Su-30MK2 version rather than a more "basic" Flanker.

[pit]

Interesting that they put the Flankers in this airbase rather than in Barquisimeto. Are we going to see Venezuelan Flankers trying to challenge the US Navy in the Caribean?

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Barquisimeto is the home of the CF-5/NF-5/RF-5 "Grifo" light figther (they're known here as VF-5), and is rather a not so big infrastructure for something like big Flanker. Fighter Aviation Group 12 have a role of Fighter/Attack OCU in the FAV. You must mean El Libertador Air Base (BAEL) in central Venezuela, where F-16A and M-50EV along most transport assets are based, well, there was just no infrastructure there neither space for the birds.

 

In fact the russians were not happy with the idea of using Barcelona (BAVALLE) due to possible corrosion problems and low quality of the infrastructure, and some voices here calls for future placement of the Group at Manuel del Rio's Air Base in Guarico (central Venezuela), where the future SATTCOM station will be deployed.

 

Don't think it have anything to do with challenging USN.

[Juan Sosa]

Barquisimeto is the home of the CF-5/NF-5/RF-5 "Grifo" light figther (they're known here as VF-5), and is rather a not so big infrastructure for something like big Flanker. Fighter Aviation Group 12 have a role of Fighter/Attack OCU in the FAV. You must mean El Libertador Air Base (BAEL) in central Venezuela, where F-16A and M-50EV along most transport assets are based, well, there was just no infrastructure there neither space for the birds.

 

In fact the russians were not happy with the idea of using Barcelona (BAVALLE) due to possible corrosion problems and low quality of the infrastructure, and some voices here calls for future placement of the Group at Manuel del Rio's Air Base in Guarico (central Venezuela), where the future SATTCOM station will be deployed.

 

Don't think it have anything to do with challenging USN.

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Pit, at least in Barquisimeto they have some infrastructure to support fighter operations, even if it is for VF-5. BAVALLE doesn't have any more infrastructure, is exposed to the sea spray increasing corrosion problems and it is kind of far away from the main strategic centers.

 

BAEL is clearly full to capacity, and I do see the logic of using Manuel del Rios. With the Flanker's range they should be able to establish CAP's over any point of the country relatively quickly. Not to mention that it is completely under utilized.

 

I am also not sure how wise it is to place Grupo 13 in base that shares operations with a civilian airport.

[pit]

Indeed Juan, the russians when check BAVALLE were pissed up on the status of the air base...even the zone where the base is situated is not really where I would like to place my main national defense assets...

 

But do you expected something logical of all this ?

[120mm]

My prediction: US will continue to largely ignore Venezuela, like the pimple on a gnat's ass that they really are. Even if they and the lefties in the news media want to portray some sort of culminating conflict between their shithole of a country and the US.

 

"The Mouse That Roared." anyone?

 

I suggest we surrender to them and demand war reparations, immediately!

[Zaphael]

My prediction:  US will continue to largely ignore Venezuela, like the pimple on a gnat's ass that they really are.  Even if they and the lefties in the news media want to portray some sort of culminating conflict between their shithole of a country and the US.

 

"The Mouse That Roared." anyone?

 

I suggest we surrender to them and demand war reparations, immediately!

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The harsh truth. The cost of maintaining those "cheap" sukhois will be more than what the Venezuelan air force can stomach. Sortie rate would be low, and maintenance levels high.

[Juan Sosa]

My prediction:  US will continue to largely ignore Venezuela, like the pimple on a gnat's ass that they really are.  Even if they and the lefties in the news media want to portray some sort of culminating conflict between their shithole of a country and the US.

 

Why don't you relax a bit and stop generalizing about a country you don't know?

 

While I have disliked the coverage on Venezuela of most international media, the portrayal of a looming conflict between the US and Venezuela has been driven mainly by Hugo Chavez Frias. The media would be irresponsible if it did not report on Chavez's tirades.

Edited December 5, 2006 by Juan Sosa

[Juan Sosa]

The harsh truth.  The cost of maintaining those "cheap" sukhois will be more than what the Venezuelan air force can stomach.  Sortie rate would be low, and maintenance levels  high.

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You are probably in for a shock if this is what you expect from the AMV. They have plenty of capable technicians and pilots who have access to plenty of money. While they are in for a steep learning curve on operating Russian gear, I don't see why they will be unsuccessful at it.

[LeoTanker]

You are probably in for a shock if this is what you expect from the AMV. They have plenty of capable technicians and pilots who have access to plenty of money. While they are in for a steep learning curve on operating Russian gear, I don't see why they will be unsuccessful at it.

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I too have heard Venezuelan pilots are pretty skilled, and their ground crews are obviousely good enough to have maintained a souch an advanced aircraft as the F-16 for decades and keept them in running condition despite shortage of spareparts.

 

Congratulations to pit and other Venezuelans for soon haveing the hottest AF in South America! And I cant wait to see what cammo scheme they will choose for the Flankers... I sure like the paintjob on the Venezuelan F-16 annyway

[Juan Sosa]

Leo, I actually think this is a stupid waste of money that should be put to better use, like rebuilding the country's health and education infrastructure.

 

Realistically, Venezuela doesn't need so many fighters (I would say no fighters). Helicopters to help deal with Colombian guerrillas on the border, as well as transport aircraft to rapidly move troops around the border as needed.

 

100.000 AK-103's plus a factory to build more are also absurd when you don't even have that many men under arms. They justify it with the 1.000.000 man reserve that they want to stand up to deal with the coming war against the empire.

[Luckyorwhat]

Leo, I actually think this is a stupid waste of money that should be put to better use, like rebuilding the country's health and education infrastructure.

 

Realistically, Venezuela doesn't need so many fighters (I would say no fighters). Helicopters to help deal with Colombian guerrillas on the border, as well as transport aircraft to rapidly move troops around the border as needed.

 

100.000 AK-103's plus a factory to build more are also absurd when you don't even have that many men under arms. They justify it with the 1.000.000 man reserve that they want to stand up to deal with the coming war against the empire.

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The AK's were also for Chavistas, politically-screened national militia of men and women who can be counted on to support Chavez. I believe the Tascon list, which has the names of everyone who votes against Chavez, is still available on the internet. Aiui millions of CDs were burned with the list on them, anyway, so that employers without internet could still deny jobs to such unfavourables.

[Rod]

One unintended consequence of the Sukhois in Venezuela is that this will spur Brazil to accelerate its plans for its own Air Force. I am sure the Generals in Brazil are uncomfortable with Venezuela having Flankers of the latests version in a border country. The best fighters in Brazil are used French AdA Mirage 2000 (early versions) that they got it under a lease agreement (IIRC about all 12 of them).

 

Brazil had this F-X program to procure a modern fighter with F-16, F-18, Rafale and Su-35 all under consideration. As a stop gap, Israeli Kfir C-10 (with modern Elta EL/M2032 radars and Python-4 AAMs) was considered but dropped and later the Mirage 2000 chosen. Lack of funds was cited but with Super Flankers on its border, everyone's Air Force in South America (save for Chile's F-16 Block 52s) has become obsolete.

 

If the price is right, I would not be surprised of Brazil buying Su-30MK2s as well and then trying to get Venezuela to service the planes inside Brazilian facilities.

[Luckyorwhat]

Brazil's pretty protectionist with it's aerospace industry, might that hinder them from shopping a bit?

[mattblack]

Not if they want anything to come close to the Flankers' capibility.

 

They did some nice upgrades to their F-5's but hardly in the ballpark of the Sukhois,that's about as advanced as their home grown aerospace program has got in terms of fighters.However,Brazil has AFAIK much better AEWC.I think the chances of the Sukhois being used in combat against Brazil is around nill however.

[Cinaruco]

They are called Su-30MK2 "Revolutionary". It's all a wasted though, the main thought in today's Venezuelan military is the "asymmetric war" with the USA, comparing Venezuela with the quagmire Iraq is. Bunch of ignorant dickwads.

[mattblack]

If Chavez wants to keep pissing $ away on planes that have no use,thinks the US would even want to invade and also thinks that the US couldn't assymetrically cut off income from his country with not a damned thing he could do about it... let him keep on keepin' on.

[gnocci]

Venezuela has no use for those Su-30s. What you really need are Cessna A-37. My country would be obligued to exchange them...