Secret Weapons of the Allies

[DesertFox]

I was just watching a show about the secret aircraft of Japan. They talk about jet fighter strikes against US carrier groups and outdoing us Corsairs. I wonder about them having any fuel for those fighters and by that time (1946) and US Carriers would be operating Phantom I fighters. There also was no "Super Carrier" for the Japanese.

 

My question, what "Secret Weapons" did the Allies have at the end of WW2?

[Guest Hans Engström]

You mean, aside from nuclear bombs (well, not so secret, but still)?

 

Jet fighters on the way or deployed. XB35 or XB36 bombers could have been put into earlier production. Tanks were fine (for the nonce) but full tracked APCs might have been deployed (but there were all those halftracks to be used...)

[wwt]

The allied "secret weapons" were those that were developed and became very un-secret and out dated in the late 50's to early 60's. Those of the axis died an un-natural death and, save those stolen by the allies, did not get to grow old.

 

Examples would include the "Skysweeper" the P80, the F84, the B36, the Conquorer heavy tank, the M103 heavy tank, etc,etc.

[Tony Evans]

In terms of the relative sophistication of the technology, Allied radar vis-a-vis that of the Japanese (but not the Germans) might not have been a secret, but was certainly an advantage almost as big as true technical surprise.

[Brian Kennedy]

As far as stuff that would have actually been fielded had the war dragged on to '46:

 

- Arguably the ultimate piston-engined fighters -- Bearcats, deHavilland Hornets, super-Spitfires, etc.

 

- Early jets -- P80s, better Meteors (were the Sovs working on anything?)

 

- early-mark Centurions, JS3s, etc.

[Guest Sargent]

Well, there was the US 36" Mortar, the SP 240mm HMC for bunker-busting, the F7F and F8F that just missed deployment.

 

I doubt the P-80 would have done much good, except possibly as a kamikaze incerceptor over Okinawa. Too little range to have any loiter time over Japan.

[DesertFox]

Originally posted by Sargent:

Well, there was the US 36" Mortar, the SP 240mm HMC for bunker-busting, the F7F and F8F that just missed deployment.

 

I doubt the P-80 would have done much good, except possibly as a kamikaze incerceptor over Okinawa. Too little range to have any loiter time over Japan.

 

I am not thinking of the P-80 but more the FH-1 Phantom for carrier defense.

[Al]

Didn't the US have, or use guided bombs launched from aircraft during WWII?

[Guest Sargent]

Originally posted by DesertFox:

I am not thinking of the P-80 but more the FH-1 Phantom for carrier defense.

 

 

 

F8F would probably be better. Smaller, could operate from short decks (CVLs) and faster climbing than the FH-1.

[Guest Sargent]

Originally posted by Al:

Didn't the US have, or use guided bombs launched from aircraft during WWII?

 

 

Yes, for shipping strike in the PTO.

[DesertFox]

Originally posted by Sargent:

F8F would probably be better. Smaller, could operate from short decks (CVLs) and faster climbing than the FH-1.

 

Concerned with it being able to deal with the theoretical Japanese jet fighters. Still, wan't there a few examples of Mustangs in Korea shooting down Mig-15s?

[Guest Sargent]

Originally posted by DesertFox:

Concerned with it being able to deal with the theoretical Japanese jet fighters.

 

"Theoretical" is the operative word. AFAIK, the Japanese never flew a jet, nor did they have the fuel.

[Paul F Jungnitsch]

Originally posted by Al:

Didn't the US have, or use guided bombs launched from aircraft during WWII?

 

http://www.nasm.edu/nasm/dsh/artifacts/RM-bat.htm

[Yama]

Originally posted by Sargent:

"Theoretical" is the operative word. AFAIK, the Japanese never flew a jet, nor did they have the fuel.

 

Nakajima Kikka (Me-262 rip-off) flew once or twice, and small number of pre-production aircraft were being built when war ended. They also had some rocket plane projects, 'Ohka' being the best known (kamikaze plane).

 

Certainly they would not have been a major threat for US forces, even if the war would have stretched to 1946, given their fuel etc shortages.

[lastdingo]

Originally posted by Sargent:

Yes, for shipping strike in the PTO.

 

Not only this.

 

The Bat was a fire-and-forget active-radar glide bomb against ships, but IMHO more significant was the potential of RAZON and the earleir AZON, which were 1000lbs bombs with radio guidance. There was a whole VB guided bomb serie with several aerodynamic layouts, but IIRC all radio guidance.

 

As a "secret" weapon of high interest, I'd note the russian T-44 medium tank which has something like a Panther's performance with T-34 simplicity.

[lastdingo]

Originally posted by Stuart Galbraith:

Well the RN took delivery of the Sea Fury in about mid 1945, so if the war had dragged into 1946, they might well have had a carrier fighter to rival some of the US Navy's. Considering at least one Sea Fury bagged a mig 15 over korea (a far better warplane than the warmed over ME262 the Japs were considering) Id rate their chances as pretty good of evening any technical gap. More to the point, I seem to recall that there was an experiment at flying a DH vampire onto a carrier, but Im damned if i can recall whether it was 1946 or 47.

 

On 3rd or 4th December 1945 was Eric C. Brown the first pilot that landed a jetfighter on an aircraft carrier, a D.H. 100 Vampire.

[George Newbill]

No Japanese Super Carriers?

 

Have you ever heard of the 71,890 ton Shinano?

 

GN

[Chris Werb]

The Japanese were also trialling an IR homing anti shipping bomb.

[DesertFox]

Originally posted by Sargent:

"Theoretical" is the operative word. AFAIK, the Japanese never flew a jet, nor did they have the fuel.

 

Just like they taleked about these theoretical jets taking off from a "Theoretical" super carrier which thery had none.

 

I do wonder following the idea, how an experienced US Pilot in a bearcat do against a Japanse Me-262 with an unexperienced pilot. They really had no experienced pilots left from what I have read.

[DesertFox]

Originally posted by George Newbill:

No Japanese Super Carriers? 

 

Have you ever heard of the 71,890 ton Shinano?

 

GN

 

And it could launch fighters from the bottom of the ocean. Not saying they did not try but the ship did not exist after 1944.

[Harold Jones]

Originally posted by George Newbill:

No Japanese Super Carriers? 

 

Have you ever heard of the 71,890 ton Shinano?

 

GN

 

 

Yeah, but we sank it before it was even complete. I don't believe they would have had a replacement for it any time soon.

[swerve]

"On 3rd or 4th December 1945 was Eric C. Brown the first pilot that landed a jetfighter on an aircraft carrier, a D.H. 100 Vampire."

 

Wasn't that the Eric Brown who set a record for number of different types flown?

[lastdingo]

IJN (navy) aircraft had often folding wings - for operation from carriers.

 

About jap. guided ordnance: I'm waiting for every bit of information on this, since even the webmaster of Nihon Kaigun doesn't know about japanese guided weapons (I think of those without crew)!!!!!!!!!!

 

Jap. jet fighters; the japanese flew jet fighters. They had a primitive copy of the Me262, which probably flew i time (my memory fails on this), and they had a copy of the Me163 (built after photos mostly), but the engine failed during a loop because of a fuel system design mistake and the aircraft crashed (I think it was even the maiden flight).

 

Eric Brown: IIRC, that was the guy who flew many of the german high-end aircraft and wrote a famous book about them. Don't know about his records.

 

Shinano: It was no super carrier, just very big. The number of aicraft was extremely disappointing since it wasn't really designed as CV from the start and because it wasn't intended as pure CV later on. It was a kind of support ship for other carriers, it itself had only IIRC around 50 aircraft, that would probably have dropped to 40 with the newer, bigger fighters and bombers.

You could operate 50 aircraft from a 15,000 ton CV.

 

[Edited by lastdingo (16 Dec 2003).]

[Tony Williams]

Originally posted by swerve:

"On 3rd or 4th December 1945 was Eric C. Brown the first pilot that landed a jetfighter on an aircraft carrier, a D.H. 100 Vampire."

 

Wasn't that the Eric Brown who set a record for number of different types flown?

 

Probably - I don't know if he set a record, but was certainly a type hog who flew everything he could get hold of. His career stared with the FAA as a carrier fighter pilot, but during WW2 he moved into flight testing and development work. He has written several books comparing WW2 aircraft from the pilot's perspective. He's still around, last I heard.

 

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and Discussion forum

 

[Edited by Tony Williams (16 Dec 2003).]

[p620346]

Originally posted by lastdingo:

IJN (navy) aircraft had often folding wings - for operation from carriers. QUOTE]

 

According to SUNBURST, only a few of the larger IJN carrier aircraft, KATE, had true folding wings. Most had only folding wingtips due to the IJN obsession with light weight aircraft. As a result, IJN carriers could carry less planes than their USN counterparts.