History of Soviet tanks

[Harkonnen]

Did this tank ever go into production (beyond testing) and service? Did the main gun actually have the muzzle-brake as shown in the drawing?

 

This tank is not going to service but dessisions tested on it will go.

Yes, the gun has 2-chamber muzzle-brake but it may look slightly different from the drawing.

[Harkonnen]

I've seen photos somewhere of tanks "demilitarized" with holes in the barrell. Just a way of making sure the gun barrell could not be used.

Could be the case?

 

The suppose gun on this "o. 447" can be used with such "demilitarization"

[Gavin-Phillips]

I remember reading about the object 167 vehicle, a super modified T-62! What's the deal with adding track return rollers?

 

The chart of Soviet tanks post-1966 is very curious, especially one of the 3 silhouetted vehicles, one of them is obviously the T-95, but whats the bottom one called? Hull silhouette almost looks like its the S-tank with a turreted gun

[RETAC21]

What is it per Lenskii ? 

 

There were 2256 T-80 in GSVG. Not including a training and special units (maybe up to 400).

268163[/snapback]

 

Yes. but out of 20.000 or so produced, isn't it? where were the others?

[Harkonnen]

Hull silhouette almost looks like its the S-tank with a turreted gun

 

It is a new design of Leningrad's Spetsmash KB and the designer of T-80 N.S. Popov.

The forward engine 152 mm armed tank with crew of 2 in the hull middle.

 

 

[Harkonnen]

Yes. but out of 20.000 or so produced, isn't it? where were the others?

 

Do you think Germany is the only place in the world to place T-80? Along with 2.5 + T-80-s there were about the same number of T-64 there.

[gnocci]

The suppose gun on this "o. 447" can be used with such "demilitarization" 

268230[/snapback]

Well, at least it will be easy to spot when it fires

[Stefan Kotsch]

The suppose gun on this "o. 447" can be used with such "demilitarization" 

268230[/snapback]

 

 

That cannot be demilitarization. The inside diameter of the muzzle brake is larger than the caliber. The holes are very accurately bored. No, that is a unknown modification of the 125 mm, assumes I.

Edited January 10, 2006 by Stefan Kotsch

[RETAC21]

Do you think Germany is the only place in the world to place T-80? Along with 2.5 + T-80-s there were about the same number of T-64 there.

268260[/snapback]

 

In 1987? no, there were only 838 T-80s versus 5.558 other tanks, mainly T-64, so if the T-80 was one of the better tanks, intended to replace (or complement?) the T-64 and in production since 1978 (that would be a production of 1.500 per year if in 1990 there were 20.000) I am puzzled as to where they ended up.

[DRW]

It is a new design of Leningrad's Spetsmash KB and the designer of T-80 N.S. Popov.

The forward engine 152 mm armed tank with crew of 2 in the hull middle.

 

 

268259[/snapback]

 

Interesting! I've seen very similar designs for the American FCS program. Is Russia now back to making aircrft that look very close to F-15s, passanger jets that have the concord appearance and so on and tank designs found on the internet as possible western replacement MBTs?

[savantu]

In 1987? no, there were only 838 T-80s versus 5.558 other tanks, mainly T-64, so if the T-80 was one of the better tanks, intended to replace (or complement?) the T-64 and in production since 1978 (that would be a production of 1.500 per year if in 1990 there were 20.000) I am puzzled as to where they ended up.

268547[/snapback]

 

 

The USSR wasn't small by any means..

 

Heck they had 6 Tank armies throughout the cold war while the Brits had 4 divisions and the US 12....

 

Remember that in the russian way of handling tanks , 99% are mothballed all the time and training is done on a small number of tanks...

 

With all the economic collapse of 1989 , the Soviet Union produced 3000 MBTs that year...That's T72,T80 and possibly some T64 too.

[Harkonnen]

Interesting! I've seen very similar designs for the American FCS program. Is Russia now back to making aircrft that look very close to F-15s, passanger jets that have the concord appearance and so on and tank designs found on the internet as possible western replacement MBTs?

 

What do you talking about ? What aircraft very close to F-15s If you have nothing to say better be silient.

[Harkonnen]

In 1987? no, there were only 838 T-80s versus 5.558 other tanks, mainly T-64, so if the T-80 was one of the better tanks, intended to replace (or complement?) the T-64 and in production since 1978 (that would be a production of 1.500 per year if in 1990 there were 20.000) I am puzzled as to where they ended up

 

838? First you said several hundreds

there were 2256 T-80 and 3990 T-64 A/in GSVG in 1986-87.

 

[DRW]

What do you talking about ? What aircraft very close to F-15s If you have nothing to say better be silient.

268575[/snapback]

 

Don't get snappy with me! I'm making an observation that is widely supported. The F-15 enters production quickly followed by a series of Russian aircraft with similar charasteristics and appearances. The Concord is hearlded as a furturistic aircraft that was supposed to change public transportation. Russians spies were identified and covertly given fake blueprints of the Concord. The Russians built their copy but reportedly had numerous problems. There are several other examples of western countries developing an iten to suddenly see an incrediblly resembling copy come out of Russia a few years later. Now we have a picture of a possible Russian MBT that looks like an American FCS design I saw about ten or more years ago. I don't think its just coinsidence. If you can't beat'm, emulate'm.

 

Lets face it. Russian military has taken a huge number of blows in the last ten years; Iraqi T-72s, The Kursk, Chechnya, and the rusting Black Sea fleet are but a few. The Russians have lost a lot of money on military exports and are trying hard to recover. They are getting some good deals out of Pakistan, China and such but not like in the old days.

[RETAC21]

838?  First you said several hundreds

there were 2256 T-80 and 3990 T-64 A/in GSVG in 1986-87.

 

268576[/snapback]

 

What's the source?

 

Here's what I have:

 

"Изменение танкового парка ГСВГ/ЗГВ (строевые соединения и части)

на 01.01.87 (штат/в т.ч. факт Т-80) - на 19.Х1.90 (факт)

 

1-я гв. ТА

9-я тд - 328 (в т.ч. 11 Т-80) - 238 (Т-80)

11-я гв.тд - 328 (в т.ч. 20 Т-80) - 295 (Т-80)

20-ягв.мсд - 271 (-) - 154 (Т-80)

отд.танковый полк - 94 (в т.ч. 9 Т-80) - (-)

всего: 1021 (в т.ч. 40 Т-80) - 687 (Т-80)

 

2-я гв. ТА

16-я гв. Тд: 328 (в т.ч. 21 Т-80) - 250 (Т-80)

21 -я гв. Мсд: 271 (в т.ч. 94 Т-80) - 155 (Т-80)

94-я гв. Мсд: 271 (в т.ч. 207 Т-80) - 274 (Т-80)

207-я мсд: 271 (-) - 155 (Т-80)

отд. танковый полк: 94 (в т.ч. 16 Т-80) - (-)

всего: 1235 (в т.ч. 338 Т-80) - 834 (в т.ч. 560 Т-80)

 

3-яОА

7-я гв.тд: 328 (в т.ч. ЮТ-80) - выведена

10-я гв.тд: 328 (в т.ч. 12 Т-80) - 364 (Т-80)

12-я гв. Тд: 328 (в т.ч. 47 Т-80) - выведена

47-я гв. Тд: 328 (-) - 322 (Т-64)

отд. танковый полк: 94 (в т.ч. 7 Т-80) - (-)

всего: 1406 (в т.ч. 76 Т-80) - 686 (в т.ч. 364 Т-80)

 

8-я гв.ОА

27-я гв. Мед: 271 (в т.ч. 27 Т-80) - 225 (Т-80)

39-я гв. Мсд: 271 (в т.ч. 57 Т-80) - 155 (Т-80)

57-я гв. Мсд: 271 (-) - 256 (Т-80)

79-я гв. Тд: 328 (в т.ч. 37 Т-80) - 322 (Т-80)

отд. танковый полк: 94 (в т.ч. 79 Т-80) - (-)

всего: 1235 (в т.ч. 202 Т-80) - 958 (Т-80)

 

20-я гв.ОА

25-я тд: 328 (в т.ч. 32 Т-80) - выведена

32-я гв. Тд: 328 (в т.ч. 90 Т-80) - выведена

35-я мсд: 271 (-) - 149 (Т-80)

90-я гв. Тд: 328 (в т.ч. 35 Т-80) - 249 (Т-80)

отд. танковый полк: 94 (в т.ч. 25 Т-80) - (-)

6-я отд. гв. Берлинская бригада: 150 (-) - 141 (Т-64)

 

всего: 1499 (в т.ч. 182 Т-80) - 539 (в т.ч. 398 Т-80)

 

Итого в линейных: 6396 (в т.ч. 838 Т-80) - 4024 (в т.ч. 2967 Т-80)

 

I appreciate your help in reconciling all this.

[RETAC21]

838?  First you said several hundreds

there were 2256 T-80 and 3990 T-64 A/in GSVG in 1986-87.

 

268576[/snapback]

 

Add them up on your table, they sum 838 too!

[Harkonnen]

Add them up on your table, they sum 838 too! 

 

My souce T-80 Tank (M. baryatinski)

[Harkonnen]

Don't get snappy with me! I'm making an observation that is widely supported.

Don't eat what is "widely supported", use you personal brains.

 

The F-15 enters production quickly followed by a series of Russian aircraft with similar charasteristics and appearances. The Concord is hearlded as a furturistic aircraft that was supposed to change public transportation. Russians spies were identified and covertly given fake blueprints of the Concord. The Russians built their copy but reportedly had numerous problems. There are several other examples of western countries developing an iten to suddenly see an incrediblly resembling copy come out of Russia a few years later. Now we have a picture of a possible Russian MBT that looks like an American FCS design I saw about ten or more years ago. I don't think its just coinsidence. If you can't beat'm, emulate'm.

 

You are another victim of mass media. You may have seen such american FCS design about ten years ago, how do you know WHEN Russians used it to make such stupid claims.

 

Look here – it is Mig -25 (1969) and F-15 (1972)

 

 

So the US copied Mig-25! What a shame!

 

And this evil Europeans copied Russian Mig-23 PREDECESSOR!!!

 

 

From 1962!

 

 

Lets face it. Russian military has taken a huge number of blows in the last ten years; Iraqi T-72s, The Kursk, Chechnya, and the rusting Black Sea fleet are but a few.

You are another flamer in this topic.

 

The Russians have lost a lot of money on military exports and are trying hard to recover. They are getting some good deals out of Pakistan, China and such

 

Can you name Russian deals with Pakistan?

 

but not like in the old days.

 

During several recent years Russia almost reached the scale of military trade of Soviet Union.

Edited January 10, 2006 by Harkonnen

[LOSBLOS]

So the key idea is that T-72 was not the primary Soviet tank, it was exported worldwide to any nation possible. While no T-64 or T-80 was ever exported (After Soviet Union T-80U was exported to ROK, Cyprus and T-80UD to Pakistan)…

 

 

The most important threads of Soviet tank development after 1966

267846[/snapback]

 

Other information says:

Ob194/195(Nizhny Tagil) Ob449X(Molozov) Ob230X/231X/232X(Popov)

are competing for T-95, and the Ob195 won, became T-95.

 

Looks like the three black profiles of all7zr.gif just fit in:

Upper (T-95) =====> Ob194/195

Middle (Ob447)====> Ob449X

Lower==========> Ob230X /231X /232X

 

Is there any further clue about the development about T-95?

[Guest Charles]

And this evil Europeans copied Russian Mig-23 PREDECESSOR!!!

 

 

From 1962!

 

Harkonnen, Why was this protoype dropped for the Mig 23?. Would it be for the same reasons that UK TSR 2 was dropped (similar time period)?

 

 

[Harkonnen]

Harkonnen, Why was this protoype dropped for the Mig 23?. Would it be for the same reasons that UK TSR 2 was dropped (similar time period)?

 

 

268614[/snapback]

 

 

This protoype was dropped because the military wished veried wing geometry plane, it was fashionable that days. Though the plane showed excellent results after the crash of the 1-st prototype no futher fights were dne.

[Harkonnen]

Other information says:

Ob194/195(Nizhny Tagil) Ob449X(Molozov) Ob230X/231X/232X(Popov)

are competing for T-95, and the Ob195 won, became T-95.

 

Looks like the three black profiles of all7zr.gif just fit in: 

Upper (T-95) =====> Ob194/195

Middle (Ob447)====> Ob449X

Lower==========> Ob230X /231X /232X

 

I assume your info is from chiniese "Tanks and armored vechicles"?

Maybe 449 it is another mod of 447M or so. Anyway Ukrainian tank could not compete with Russians after the USSR broke apart.

As for the Popov's tans they are working in a bit another field this days - unmanned combat and support vechicles.

Funny the Spezmash 2 -mann tank hull was shown accidantly on TV during the water test, the comentor said it is new swimming tank

[Guest Charles]

This protoype was dropped  because the military wished veried wing geometry plane, it was fashionable that days. Though the plane showed excellent results after the crash of the 1-st prototype no futher fights were dne.

268615[/snapback]

 

Harkonnen,Thank you.

Shame really, that looks like a real beautiful interceptor, especially for 1962. Looks like both East and West were Designing and prototyping some lovely aircraft back then. TSR2, B 70 to name but a few that got cancelled; but performed superbly. Apologies for taking this a little off topic

Back to the Tanks

 

Charles

[LOSBLOS]

I assume your info is from  chiniese "Tanks and armored vechicles"?

Maybe 449 it is another mod of 447M or so. Anyway Ukrainian tank could not compete with Russians after the USSR broke apart.

As for the Popov's tans they are working in a bit another field this days - unmanned combat and support vechicles. 

Funny the Spezmash 2 -mann tank hull was shown accidantly on TV during the water test, the comentor said it is new swimming tank 

268618[/snapback]

 

Yes, you are right.

From Chinese "Tanks and armored vechicles" (ISSN 1001-8778) 2004 December, pp. 16-19.

 

It says the competition was in late 1980s,

After the break up of USSR, the 449X is out.

 

Although it looks to fit in, all the pictures in the Chinese magazine looks very different from the black profiles in all7_.gif.

[Harkonnen]

Although it looks to fit in, all the pictures in the Chinese magazine looks very different from the black profiles in all7_.gif.

 

Some Chieniese 3D max expert ....