A Modern Battleship?

[FlyingCanOpener]

Given the insanity of the initial premise, my plan for survival would be to kill Dear Leader with a drafting pencil rather than try to satisfy the design objectives.

 

Failing that, I would propose a fleet of monitors acting like a "virtual battleship". Arm with a combo of 200mm howitzers and TLAMs. Add in exceptional missile defense and minesweeper versions so that they can close into the shore.

 

If that doesn't fly, tell Dear Leader to kidnap a few dozen battleship critics to hold a symposium on why a BB isn't wise. If my head's going on a pike, I ain't going alone.

265208[/snapback]

 

Now that's no fun! I mean, just think of it, you design a battleship that enters service, you'll have legions of slobbering BB-philes at your disposal!

[Ivanhoe]

Now that's no fun! I mean, just think of it, you design a battleship that enters service, you'll have legions of slobbering BB-philes at your disposal!

265210[/snapback]

 

The consistent evidence is that the BB-philes are outnumbered and outbudgeted by the BB-phobes. It would be kinda like being David Hasselhoff, your fans may be fanatical but the world is populated by your detractors.

 

Perhaps the trick is to somehow generate revenue off of the -phobes. Maybe a ten grand speaking fee to come and debate each BB-phobe in a public debate on the efficacy of modern BBs. Even if you lose every debate, it may take the antis 10 or 20 episodes before they realize they're being skullbleeped.

[gewing]

That is about 100,000 shp.  On LSD-41/49, 41,600 shp = 22 kts.  So 100,000 shp might get you 28 kts. 

 

I am more concerned about powering those four 8-10 inch Electromagnetic guns.  IIRC they had to drop the idea of using EM guns from the DDX because they needed like 150MW to fire a single 155mm gun (maybe it was 150MW for two single-barrel 155mm guns).  Your four 8-10" EM guns would require 4 times that (twice as many guns & twice as much power per gun - assuming roughly the same rate-of-fire per gun) or something like 600MW (the equivalent of 804,600 shp).  That is roughly 3 times the power of a Nimitz class CVN (the nuclear powerplants may actually be capable of more than 190MW each but the steam turbines which actually propel the ship are rated at 280,000 shp)!

 

[If anybody hase more accurate power requirements, please let us know]

I think it would be a tight fit, similar to pre-dreadnaught BBs, which would make for rather poor seakeeping.

Yes, they have proven quite successfull on Frigate & Corvette size hulls but many are sceptical if the same would be true for larger hulls.  A Trimaran would be great for a CV if it works!

264947[/snapback]

 

 

 

I was making guesses about the power, and assuming that a large number of capacitors would be needed. Also, I did mention that power levels might well need to be increased. Yeah, 4 EM guns would probably be too much. 2 might work, if the sponsor would accept that... And I forgot about small em guns for air defense and such. Maybe one 30mm on each side, in place of something else.

 

It is VERY possible that the EM guns just plain couldn't be made to work. In that case, an evolved version of the Mk71 8" turret, with actual armor on it, would be my choice, Out of the readily available options.

 

Does anyone know enough about that design to know whether it could be installed in a twin gun turret? I'm not certain I want a traditional design with turrets for and aft. As someone else posted, the Romney design, with the main turrets ahead of the island makes a lot of sense.

 

Assuming that High energy lasers and EM guns DOn't work. perhaps a loadout something like

2x twin 8" rapid fire turrets "bow" mounted.

 

Above and behind those, there would be a 57mm gun (76 or 100mm would work too) this is on the centerline.

 

Above and behind this, there would be a Millenium 35mm and a RAM mount on each corner of the Island. 4 of each, total.

 

The Stern would be used for Air operations, with the Millenium/RAM pair on each rear corner of the ship, and.

 

 

Along the sides of the island would be the MLRS an/ or Iskander launchers. As a "battleship" either would be useful. SHTURM missiles could be used in place of MLRS, I suppose.

 

I was thinking that it should be fairly easy to fit one or two 6 cell MLRS launcher/loaders per side, Instead, I would think that at least 6 Iskander tubes would fit on either side.

 

It might be necessary to go to a larger hull, My first thought was the length of the New Nersey, but then I decided... Maybe not. At 610x 84, it would be 43 feet longer and 29 feet broader beam than a Ticonderoga, with MUCH more deck space.

 

In contrast, instead of 2 single 5" mounts, I would mount 2 double 8", about the same number of VLS cells, about double the aviation space, and some other stuff...

 

I suppose the hull could be lengthened by about 100 feet, providing even more deck space, and more room for the powerplants needed.

 

One of the things I was planning on taking advantage of, is that the ship wouldn't be designed for the kind of range that a US ship might have. It would be more of a regional power projection ship.

 

A thread elsewhere got me thinking, another idea would by to revive the "PYkrete" mega ship idea, and to heck with size limitations. Put whatever you want on it...

[gewing]

I liked Van Helsing... 

265026[/snapback]

 

 

I thought it was a little better than Okay, right up unti the end... Then I wanted to GAG.

[Bob B]

Why does the ship have to have battleship armor if it is not going to fight another battleship? What you might really want to do is design a modern battle cruiser. Enough armour to handle anti ship missiles with conventional warheads. If somebody hits it with a nuke then the game is up anyway.

 

Also, any major capital ship built now is probably going to have to be nuke powered so it can remain on station for long periods of time.

 

Out of curiosity, I wonder how many 16 inch tubes Sam still has lying around. A while back someone posted pictures of some in storage. The government even had spare tubes in storage for the shorter 16" guns used on the pre Iowa class BBs. Now that the Iowa class BBs are history what are they going to do with the tubes?

[Rickshaw]

A thread elsewhere got me thinking,  another idea would by to revive the "PYkrete" mega ship idea, and to heck with size limitations.  Put whatever you want on it...

265218[/snapback]

 

How battle resistent is Pykrete? Afterall, it is only ice.

[Daniel Papp]

EM battleships, my favourites, hmmm...

 

You need a lot of ower for them. To accelerate a 1000kg projectile to 1000m/s you need 500MJ Energy. If you want a total RPM of 6 - one shot every 10 seconds, you need 50MW power.

 

The main armament is 4 huge water-cooled EM guns with the aforementioned projectile characteristics, in two twin turrets, one forward and one aft. Twin turrets just because they look cool. The railguns are energized by a huge compulsator located amidships. this might have some effects on the ship's stability, especially in tough weather. We need some beam for it, so we are stuck with a monohull design. The guns have a 100km ballistic range, this can be achieved by rocket-assisted ammo. Guided munitions research will provide additional, long-range ammo. Two wing turrets on each side will be equipped by smaller (~200mm) dual-purpose EM guns, to take care of smaller surface ships, with a secondary anti-air role. Conventional weaponry would be 2x127mm OTO Melara automatic, a block of ASTER VLS. CIWS is conventional+laser+EM, it can be tried out.

 

Ship will be around 30000-40000t displacement, built in France - we have money, so all the electronics goodies we need can be bought (and even some more). Powered by 4x36MW RR gas turbines, with podded propulsion - two pods fore, two aft. Dipslacement provides subdivision against AShMs, plus a TDS against under-keel torpedoes if possible.

 

Aviation facilities: Hangar for 3 EH-101s, at least one built as US-101. Helipads are placed over a 25m-long swimming pool. Some of the weapons systems will be modular, replacable in a week with Royal/VIP suit modules, if HRH wants to go for a cruise and invite guests. Amphib docking bay at the stern, for smaller fishing boats/yachts.

 

Stealth measures: depending on royal whim, if HRH wants a more conventional look, won't be too much.

[gewing]

How battle resistent is Pykrete?  Afterall, it is only ice.

265234[/snapback]

 

 

Well, from what the stories indicate, it was pretty damned tough. The fiber re-inforcement added a LOT of strength.

 

 

 

I suppose yet another idea would be to start with a Mid-sized twin hull Supertanker, still on the building ways. Add a layer of armor on the inner hull. Enough, as mentioned, to resist at least most conventional anti-ship missiles.

 

Put in engines large enough to give it a relatively effective speed, something over say 24 knots. (This might not be possible... Though it should supply LOTS of electrical power if you have engines anywhere near capable of that speed)

Re-enforce the decks, giving them a moderate level of armor. perhaps a double layer of 1" VHS, spaced a couple of feet apart?

 

 

Build in whatever gun you can get. I do rather like the Mk71, If you put a couple of them on the bow, it would meet the "gun" standard. Even though I am REALLY intrigued by what a guided 155mm round would do when fired as a saboted round from a long barreled 8" gun, they are NOT the real main armament. In the rough center of your deck, build your island. This has to be big enough to hold your radars and such, but not much bigger. I still like a combination of RAM and 35mm Milleniums for close in defenses, but the russian Compound systems with guns and missiles would probably work just as well. I rather like the capabilities of a dual feed 35mm against small boats, etc, but it isn't that much of a difference.

 

On either side of (and behind if possible) the two turrets, (again, I assume modified to twin mounts, though single could work) are banks of VLS cells. A total of at least 120. The Ticonderogas have 127 cells.

 

The rear deck is converted to a flight deck, holding helicopters and UAVs.

 

I wouldn't be too surprised if 200 VLS cells could be fit into such a monster, particularly if you cut the "main guns" down to one turret.

 

One system I would try to test would be a deployable tethered Aerostat. Several could be carried and inflated as needed, they would carry what amounts to a SNiper pod and ESM antennae, Plus a laser designator with enough range to actually be useful.

[EchoFiveMike]

Concur with the BC idea, why heavy armour? Something proof vs 155/127mm shells and light case ASM's and fragments is fine.

 

The great guns are simply a convient and volume efficient way to deliver HE to X distance. Assuming a guidance package on every shell, much like ERGM, smoothbore is the way to go. At closer distances a good 155mm or 203mm gun will work fine for delivering HE. Figure two triple turrets for a good number of rds delivered simulatanously without needless shell loitering making them more vulnerable to SAM's, etc. Figure two triple 16-20" smoothbores firing 4000lb shells with enough velocity to get them high enough for a long glide path. Hell, you can fix them in elevation since all range adjustment will be done by the guidance package anyways.

 

A Nelson type designs with forward turrets is fine, keeps all that gear concentrated and have common magazines. A nice large long hull for volume is good too. Gives you plenty of space for defensive systems and redundancy. Whatever power is needed to make 28-30kts and have plenty of power to run all your electronics etc. Nuclear is ideal, go straight diesel is not able to go nuclear.

 

Must have a good sonar package and torpedo defenses. I'm not sure why they're haven't been anti-torpedo torpedoes fielded yet? You can track the damned things, why not attempt to detroy them? They're certainly not hardened to anything approaching the level of a submarine, even a near burst will damage them or their guidance.

 

I figure VLS for enough SAM's to make it prohibitively expensive to attack with aircraft, maybe 200-300 Standard II-ER or Block VI class. Close range backups, such as RAMS as well as a gun system, I like 35/1000 with AHEAD. Redundant radars, both tracking and firecontrol. Not just fixed array, but rotating array that can be retracted into armoured spaces for protection once it comes down to the knife fight vs the close in defenses. VLS arrayed along both flanks of the ship, protected vs the same 155mm and ASM fragments as the remainder of the ship, plus an additional belt inside of the VLS wells IOT prevent them blowing inward towards the ships innards. Designed to deflagrate out and upward if penetrated.

 

Secondary guns, either 155mmL52 25l chamber or an 8" L55 design, either using HEFB-BB designs, and also provided with ERGM type shells. Liquid cooled barrels, how about three quad mounts on the centerline, astern of the ship's structure armoured vs the same 155mm HE and fragments as the rest of the ship. Using MACS type propellant, try for 10rpm per barrel.

 

High energy lasers, working as part of the CIWS. Enough power(150kw?) to be able to damage aircraft and missiles at close range(approx 10km) as well as destroy sensors/eyeballs and anything else you point them at.

 

Hangers for surveillance UAV's, something simply to entend your radar horizon. Maybe something like scaled up Firescout. You can place all the hangers forward, so not to interfere with your machine spaces aft. The forward turrets have nothing to do with defense, so blast interference on the UAV's is a non issue. Clear the UAV's before you need to fire the guns.

 

It'd be nice to have interceptor UAV's to work in conjunction with your air defense vs cruise missiles, but that's beyond the scope. But there's nothing to keep the AF of the country from flying CAP and shooting down incoming cruise missiles just like the Limeys did vs V-1's prior to engagement with Standard missiles. S/F....Ken M

[Argus]

I agree with Bob that a BC is more 'sensiable' <snigger> than a full blown BB.

 

On the major caliber artillery side of things, I don't think the tubes would be the problem, Bull and Sadam managed to get a 1000mm barrel made for the infamous Supergun. The forging and turning capacity to make tubes is still existant, its just not the same as the gun works of old. So if we stuck to a smoothbore than the GUNs wouldn't be a problem if time and mosny were no object. The mountings on the otherhand would be a bloody nightmare, turrets of that size... Look IMHO to build a 'traditional' BB you'd have to build a dedicated steelworks, assembly and shipbuilding complex.

 

What does our kindly dictator want? A prestigue ship with awsome firepower, an aura of invincibility to compensate for his small penis and an operational context in Asia.

 

Stuff Nuclear power, to much trouble on a political level. Washington would stop laughing and start talking seriously if you were cracking atoms for propulsion. Plus you've got to get the technology and the skills to operate it, then its going to be sitting around in port half the time anyway. A BB isn't much insurance against a coup unless its moored at the bottom of the Palace garden.

 

Option 1

A DE/AIP submarine about the same size as an Ohio would be a bit unwieldy in the South China Sea, but say 6 or 8 verticle autoloading 18-20" smoothbore guns with GPS guided shells is combining the worst of all worlds.

 

It would need some form of targeting of course, UAV's seem the most obvious solution. Either supported from shore or perhaps a layered system with disposable UAV's launched from the SSBB, recce shells and towed aray sonar, to provide an independant cabability.

 

You'd get a general bearing via sonar, surface lob off a recce shell in the general direction of the target area, then follow it up with rapid broadsides say 30 seconds later and mid course correct the projectiles from the recce data and submerge. Ok you're exposed for perhaps two or three minutes and leave a datum for enemy ASW, but you could be 100+km away.

 

shane

Edited January 2, 2006 by Argus

[Rickshaw]

Well, from what the stories indicate, it was pretty damned tough.  The fiber re-inforcement added a LOT of strength.

I suppose yet another idea would be to start with a Mid-sized twin hull Supertanker, still on the building ways.  Add a layer of armor on the inner hull.  Enough, as mentioned, to resist at least most conventional anti-ship missiles. 

 

Put in engines large enough to give it a relatively effective speed, something over say 24 knots.  (This might not be possible... Though it should supply LOTS of electrical power if you have engines anywhere near capable of that speed)

Re-enforce the decks, giving them a moderate level of armor.  perhaps a double layer of 1" VHS, spaced a couple of feet apart?

Build in whatever gun you can get.  I do rather like the Mk71, If you put a couple of them on the bow, it would meet the "gun" standard.  Even though I am REALLY intrigued by what a guided 155mm round would do when fired as a saboted round from a long barreled 8" gun, they are NOT the real main armament.  In the rough center of your deck, build your island.  This has to be big enough to hold your radars and such, but not much bigger.  I still like a combination of RAM and 35mm Milleniums for close in defenses, but the russian Compound systems with guns and missiles would probably work just as well. I rather like the capabilities of a dual feed 35mm against small boats, etc, but it isn't that much of a difference.

 

On either side of (and behind if possible) the two turrets, (again, I assume modified to twin mounts, though single could work) are banks of VLS cells.  A total of at least 120.  The Ticonderogas have 127 cells.   

 

The rear deck is converted to a flight deck, holding helicopters and UAVs. 

 

I wouldn't be too surprised if 200 VLS cells could be fit into such a monster, particularly if you cut the "main guns" down to one turret. 

 

One system I would try to test would be a deployable tethered Aerostat.  Several could be carried and inflated as needed, they would carry what amounts to a SNiper pod and ESM antennae, Plus a laser designator with enough range to actually be useful.

265260[/snapback]

 

If you made the island side mounted (which I assume you are) and made the VLS flush with deck, you'd have quite a long flight deck - there would also I'd suggest be sufficient room for a reasonable sized hanger below decks. Lifts might be a bit of a problem but not impossible. I personally prefer 203+mm weapons. A combination gun and missile CIWS provides a multilayered defence. The would also be sufficient room for a large towed sonar.

 

As to Pykrete, it might have problems surviving multiple hits. Anyway, you'd be losing too much power keeping the ice cold in the tropics.

Edited January 2, 2006 by Baron Samedi

[LeoTanker]

Intersting tread! balleshipps are by far the coolest vessels who crossed the seas. Iincludes Nimitz carriers).

 

I would star with the guided missilecruiser "Peter the Great" (Kirov class), since she is big and carries oce hell of AA defece pluss choppers allready. Then bolt on a single, big turret on the fordeck, housing two (maybe three) 16 inch guns. This might make it necissary to reallocate/skipp some of her big antiship missile silos, but I´ll leave that to my engineers. Then I´ll replace the reactor with a more powerfulone, and starting covering my babie with as mouch armour as possible. Who needs great speed? We have long range guns, missiles and helicopters. As for the helicopters I would go for some Lynx ASW, and one or tho navylized Appaches, armed with Harpoons.

 

Would this be an idea, or will I end upp as crocodile food?

 

http://re2.mm-a1.yimg.com/image/21600489

Edited January 2, 2006 by LeoTanker

[Ivanhoe]

Hangers for surveillance UAV's, something simply to entend your radar horizon.  Maybe something like scaled up Firescout.  You can place all the hangers forward, so not to interfere with your machine spaces aft.  The forward turrets have nothing to do with defense, so blast interference on the UAV's is a non issue.  Clear the UAV's before you need to fire the guns. 

 

Its probably been thought of a million times over already, but since we're spending imaginary dollars on a fantasy warship, here goes. Move the main turrets (!) aft, cut the superstructure way down and have a 2x2 setup. Then have the first forward deck be a hangar/launch deck for the UAVs, with a launch rail and a pneumatic drive using bleed air from the main engines (I'm assuming big honking gas turbines). Have a "cave mouth" at the bow* maybe with a bit of a ski ramp type of thing on the rail, so the UAVs launch clear despite whatever pitching and whatnot the hull is doing. Protects the birds and crew from guns, weather, etc. Recovery still is problematic, without further thought I'd do the catch net at the fantail I guess. There would have to be a passageway from the fantail to the forward hanger/deck which is gonna suck on such a big ship, other option would be to have a cargo rail running along the gunwale that has powered "cars" with a sling or gripper thing to carry the returned UAVs forward to the hangar/deck.

 

* It would need a door of sorts to keep green water out, preferably the cave mouth would be positioned very high but also very forward, so if a launch goes badly wrong the bird goes in the drink without smacking into any part of the ship.

[Fermi2]

Only an idiot would put a nuclear reactor on a BB. Also, by some of the statements here it's obvious you don't know a thing about nuclear reactors so why post power requirements?

 

Mike

[Bob B]

Only an idiot would put a nuclear reactor on a BB. Also, by some of the statements here it's obvious you don't know a thing about nuclear reactors so why post power requirements?

 

Mike

265301[/snapback]

 

 

OK, I will ask why would it be idiotic to put a nuclear reactor on a BB, or a BC ?

 

Please educate us.

 

FWIW, I don't know beans about nuclear reactors, but it would seem to me that if all of our carriers, and subs, have them, why not a big capital ship that is supposed to operate with them. I am thinking in terms of a USN ship.

 

After all, it would alow them to remain on station for a long time.

Edited January 2, 2006 by Bob B

[EchoFiveMike]

I could see the idea that putting a reactor on something that's going to slug it out with another ship as part of it's intended use is dumb, but that's not the role here. BB nowadays simply means ship with big guns. S/F....Ken M

[Bob B]

I could see the idea that putting a reactor on something that's going to slug it out with another ship as part of it's intended use is dumb, but that's not the role here.  BB nowadays simply means ship with big guns.  S/F....Ken M

265313[/snapback]

 

 

Yea, that goes for me too!

 

My idea was for a fire support ship that would sit of somebody's coast. It wasn't intended for a Jutland style slugfest.

[gewing]

If you made the island side mounted (which I assume you are) and made the VLS flush with deck, you'd have quite a long flight deck - there would also I'd suggest be sufficient room for a reasonable sized hanger below decks.  Lifts might be a bit of a problem but not impossible. I personally prefer 203+mm weapons. A combination gun and missile CIWS provides a multilayered defence.  The would also be sufficient room for a large towed sonar.

 

As to Pykrete, it might have problems surviving multiple hits.  Anyway, you'd be losing too much power keeping the ice cold in the tropics.

265277[/snapback]

 

 

The Mk 71 was the newest 8"+ system I knew about. at 12 rounds per minute for 6 minutes... Since the magazine is only 75 ready rounds, I assume that is the limiter.

 

If there were a 10-12 inch gun that I knew about, i would think about it, but the Mk71 should be easily resurrected. If you increased the barrel lengh a little bit...

Magazine size might be able to be increased, or several guns.

 

If twin turrets aren't as practical, then if there is enough room, put 3-4 singles on.

 

I was looking at ESSM. That looks like a pretty good system. the add on angled box launchers would be good for filling up "waste space" I suspect that with the right data links and sensors, it could be used for a lot of surface targets also.

 

I was actually thinking of running the island down the middle, with launch tubes up each side of it.

[gewing]

Yea, that goes for me too!      

 

My idea was for a fire support ship that would sit of somebody's coast.  It wasn't intended for a Jutland style slugfest.

265317[/snapback]

 

 

 

Yeah, that is more like I was thinking. I suspect even carriers might be nervous to have it around, though their planes would give them longer standoff range. Part of the reason I was planning on a lot of air/missile defenses.

 

I have long wondered how Iskander would do against a moving ship...

 

 

IF that idea doesn't work, then something like ATACMS loaded with Locaas would be interesting in a naval role. Set the patrol area, lob one missile with say 6 submissiles into the target area, and have them loiter and patrol it.

 

Anti-sumarine defenses might be a problem. Towed decoys are one thing, but I don't know anything else about them. Mount a decent sonar, figure the ship will RARELY be moving at full speed, so it should work in passive mode. I don't know what is available now for anti-submarine standoff weapons. The Helos could do a lot of that, and It might even be possible to build a main gun round that would act as a depth charge... Small anti-submarine torpedoes would be standard mount, either 2 or 4 3 shot launchers, maybe? Heck, if there was room, put in a couple of tubes for tigerfish or Mk48 adcap or whatever...

 

 

 

Subroc or something like it is still avalable, it looks like. I have no idea how effective it really is.

[Guest pfcem]

You need a lot of ower for them. To accelerate a 1000kg projectile to 1000m/s you need 500MJ Energy. If you want a total RPM of 6 - one shot every 10 seconds, you need 50MW power.

265251[/snapback]

Are you sure about that power requirement? The information I have seen indicates that you need a MW of power for each MJ of energy. My information could be wrong though (or just outdated). A lot depends on how efficient the guns are as well.

 

Here are the "specifications" for one of the EM guns proposed for the DDX.

 

•Projectile Mass – 15 kg

•Launch Mass – 20 kg

•Launch Velocity – 2.5 km/s

•Muzzle Energy – 63 MJ

•Barrel Length – 10 to 12 m

•Peak Accel. – 45 to 38 kgee’s

•Firing Rate – 6 to 12 Rnds/Min

•Power Req - 15 to 30 MW

•Range – > 200 nm

•Kinetic Energy/Target – 17 MJ(ERGM - 7 MJ, LRLAP - 14 MJ)

 

 

 

 

The main armament is 4 huge water-cooled EM guns with the aforementioned projectile characteristics, in two twin turrets, one forward and one aft. Twin turrets just because they look cool. The railguns are energized by a huge compulsator located amidships. this might have some effects on the ship's stability, especially in tough weather. We need some beam for it, so we are stuck with a monohull design. The guns have a 100km ballistic range, this can be achieved by rocket-assisted ammo. Guided munitions research will provide additional, long-range ammo. Two wing turrets on each side will be equipped by smaller (~200mm) dual-purpose EM guns, to take care of smaller surface ships, with a secondary anti-air role. Conventional weaponry would be 2x127mm OTO Melara automatic, a block of ASTER VLS. CIWS is conventional+laser+EM, it can be tried out.

 

Ship will be around 30000-40000t displacement, built in France - we have money, so all the electronics goodies we need can be bought (and even some more).  Powered by 4x36MW RR gas turbines, with podded propulsion - two pods fore, two aft. Dipslacement provides subdivision against AShMs, plus a TDS against under-keel torpedoes if possible.

 

Aviation facilities: Hangar for 3 EH-101s, at least one built as US-101. Helipads are placed over a 25m-long swimming pool. Some of the weapons systems will be modular, replacable in a week with Royal/VIP suit modules, if HRH wants to go for a cruise and invite guests. Amphib docking bay at the stern, for smaller fishing boats/yachts.

 

Stealth measures: depending on royal whim, if HRH wants a more conventional look, won't be too much.

265251[/snapback]

Again, my information points to that we could not provide the DDX (78MW total power - I do not see how 93,870 shp [70MW] can be expected to propel a 12,000+ ton ship @ 30kts) with enough power to make two 155mm EM guns realistic for it. You & gewing want to mount 4 larger guns that would require at more than 4 times as much power (more than twice as much power per gun & twice as many guns).

[Tony Williams]

Now that's no fun! I mean, just think of it, you design a battleship that enters service, you'll have legions of slobbering BB-philes at your disposal!

265210[/snapback]

The downside of that is that none of them would be female

 

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and discussion forum

[Macarthur]

Three Ideas for this one. Two ridiculously implausible but fun to think about any way.

 

 

1. the Super Dreadnaught (Anyone familiar with the wargames of Nationstates.net should recognize this one)

 

Stats: Length: Absurd, multiple Kilometers

Width: Again, huge like a few hundred meters (Say six or seven)

Hull: Trimarian

Armament: 24inch ETC main guns, 20 inch secondaries, 16 inch 'light guns' and 8 inchers for knife fighting, unerwater 'turrets' for torpedoes (Say six turrets), several hundred VLS cell (More than any proposed Arsenal ship, relax, there's plenty of room)

Defenses: A full AEGIS suite with enough CIWS and Rolling Airframe PD missiles to cover every angle of attack

Additional Equipment: Two (Count them two, dos, 2) Full size Carrier decks complete with four launch assisters and recovery cables, two deck wells for landing troops.

 

This is the ultimate blue water ship, more exepesnive than three CVBG's and impressive as hell, ain't nobody gonna mess with this beast on the seas (At least not with anything short of a nuclear missile, and even that is iffy)

 

 

2. The Fleet Integrated Combat Vessel (AKA, the poor man's Super Dreadnaught)

Stats:

The FICV is a septemarian design (seven hulls) with each hull being capable of self sufficiency in case of seperation while specializing during normal operation. Each hull has its own thruster, rudder backup electrical generation system, and weapons. most hulls are also redundant with other hulls so the ship can sustain heavy damage and still remain operational.

 

1st and 7th hulls:

these hulls are designated fleet defense hulls, they each contain an AEGIS type fleet defense system including a full complement of anti air missiles and various CIWS systems, These hulls are also home to the ships four 12 in. 3 gun turrets, and its eight 6 inch gun turrets

 

2nd and 6th hulls;

These hulls are the arsenal of the ship, each is divided into two sections. the first section is 12 feet above most of the ship at its highest point and is slanted down towards the outside of the ship, it contains a variety of stand off, surface to surface and anti shipping missiles, the second section is flat and contains a full complement of VLS cells for cruise missiles and reserve anti air missiles.

 

3rd and 5th hulls:

These are the general use hulls, the contain the ships nuclear reactors, extra fuel, a large portion of its supplys and ammunition and are also the homes of the ships radar and communications arrays as well as the bridge and backup bridge.

 

4th hull

This hull contains the ships flight deck and houses the crews and equipment of the ships 70 aircraft. that can be launched from any of the ships four catapults.

 

Width at widest point: 432m

Length at longest point: 345m

Deepest Draught: 20m

Propulsion: 7x Magneto-Hydro-Dynamic thrusters

Aircraft: 70 fighters, 12 helicopters and/or VTOL aircraft

Armament: 8 VLS cruise missile (49 cells ea.), 8 VLS canted (49 cells each), 4 VLS Anti Air (49 cells ea.), 7 torpedo tubes, 7 anti torpedo torpedo tubes, 7 submarine countermeasure/decoy tubes. 2 AEGIS radar arays. 21 CIWS, 4x 12 in. tripple turret naval guns 8x 6 in naval guns. 7 Rolling Air Frame PD missiles.

Design: The FICVs seven hulls are arranged in an oval patter, the outer hulls are the shortest and the inner hulls are the longest, this allows for the greatest availability of firepower to any point within the ships range of engagement with out inteferece from other systems and allows for an ergonomic distribution of assets for emergency situations and response. all seven hulls are conected by a pair of transportation causeways under the deck that support multiple motorized transports as well as pedestrian movement between hulls with out having to set foot on deck.

other info: The third and fifth hulls also contain docking wells and other equipment and facilities that allow the FICV to carry out amphibious assault missions as required.

 

3. The Mithril class Dreadnaught

Stats:

Dimensions: 301 m length; 80 m width; 7 m draught

Hull: Trimarian

Armament: 4x CIWS 4x rolling airframe missile PD missiles, 4x anti torpedo decoy deployer 4x anti-torpedo torpedo tubes, , 3 x triple mount 18in. naval guns, 1x triple mount 12in. naval guns, 4x triple mount 8in. naval guns, 4x dual mount 6 in. naval guns, 2x VLS (49 cells ea.)

Aircraft: 4x VTOL aircraft

The Mithril inccorprates a variety of low observable technology in addition to its impressive armament. Including advanced shaping (Looks like a Shadow stealth ship trying to mate with a conventional battleship, the tureets are also shaped for low RCS) as well as extensive use of RAM/RAS and RTM. The radar suite even includes substantial LPI capability through the use of revolutionary (And Real Life) Technology that allows the ships electronics system to identify radar returns from objects twice as far away as a conventional radar set (Not currently viable but there are ideas. its based off a technology for recieving radio frequency signals at extemely low intensities that is currently viable and is being used to provide cheap, area Wi-Fi)

 

I designed the last two for a wargame I'm involved in the first is just an overview of a class of ships that evolved somehow in this game, obviously its not entirely realistic (The wargame, via the ships)...

[DougRichards]

Three Ideas for this one. Two ridiculously implausible but fun to think about any way.

 

 

1. the Super Dreadnaught (Anyone familiar with the wargames of Nationstates.net should recognize this one)

 

Stats: Length: Absurd, multiple Kilometers

Width: Again, huge like a few hundred meters (Say six or seven)

Hull: Trimarian

Armament: 24inch ETC main guns, 20 inch secondaries, 16 inch 'light guns' and 8 inchers for knife fighting, unerwater 'turrets' for torpedoes (Say six turrets), several hundred VLS cell (More than any proposed Arsenal ship, relax, there's plenty of room)

Defenses: A full AEGIS suite with enough CIWS and Rolling Airframe PD missiles to cover every angle of attack

Additional Equipment: Two (Count them two, dos, 2) Full size Carrier decks complete with four launch assisters and recovery cables, two deck wells for landing troops.

 

This is the ultimate blue water ship, more exepesnive than three CVBG's and impressive as hell, ain't nobody gonna mess with this beast on the seas (At least not with anything short of a nuclear missile, and even that is iffy)

2. The Fleet Integrated Combat Vessel (AKA, the poor man's Super Dreadnaught)

Stats:

The FICV is a septemarian design (seven hulls) with each hull being capable of self sufficiency in case of seperation while specializing during normal operation. Each hull has its own thruster, rudder backup electrical generation system, and weapons. most hulls are also redundant with other hulls so the ship can sustain heavy damage and still remain operational.

 

1st and 7th hulls:

these hulls are designated fleet defense hulls, they each contain an AEGIS type fleet defense system including a full complement of anti air missiles and various CIWS systems, These hulls are also home to the ships four 12 in. 3 gun turrets, and its eight 6 inch gun turrets

 

2nd and 6th hulls;

These hulls are the arsenal of the ship, each is divided into two sections. the first section is 12 feet above most of the ship at its highest point and is slanted down towards the outside of the ship, it contains a variety of stand off, surface to surface and anti shipping missiles, the second section is flat and contains a full complement of VLS cells for cruise missiles and reserve anti air missiles.

 

3rd and 5th hulls:

These are the general use hulls, the contain the ships nuclear reactors, extra fuel, a large portion of its supplys and ammunition and are also the homes of the ships radar and communications arrays as well as the bridge and backup bridge.

 

4th hull

This hull contains the ships flight deck and houses the crews and equipment of the ships 70 aircraft. that can be launched from any of the ships four catapults.

 

Width at widest point: 432m

Length at longest point: 345m

Deepest Draught: 20m

Propulsion: 7x Magneto-Hydro-Dynamic thrusters

Aircraft: 70 fighters, 12 helicopters and/or VTOL aircraft

Armament: 8 VLS cruise missile (49 cells ea.), 8 VLS canted (49 cells each), 4 VLS Anti Air (49 cells ea.), 7 torpedo tubes, 7 anti torpedo torpedo tubes, 7 submarine countermeasure/decoy tubes. 2 AEGIS radar arays. 21 CIWS, 4x 12 in. tripple turret naval guns 8x 6 in naval guns. 7 Rolling Air Frame PD missiles.

Design: The FICVs seven hulls are arranged in an oval patter, the outer hulls are the shortest and the inner hulls are the longest, this allows for the greatest availability of firepower to any point within the ships range of engagement with out inteferece from other systems and allows for an ergonomic distribution of assets for emergency situations and response. all seven hulls are conected by a pair of transportation causeways under the deck that support multiple motorized transports as well as pedestrian movement between hulls with out having to set foot on deck.

other info: The third and fifth hulls also contain docking wells and other equipment and facilities that allow the FICV to carry out amphibious assault missions as required.

 

3. The Mithril class Dreadnaught

Stats:

Dimensions: 301 m length; 80 m width; 7 m draught

Hull: Trimarian

Armament: 4x CIWS 4x rolling airframe missile PD missiles, 4x anti torpedo decoy deployer 4x anti-torpedo torpedo tubes, , 3 x triple mount 18in. naval guns, 1x triple mount 12in. naval guns, 4x triple mount 8in. naval guns, 4x dual mount 6 in. naval guns, 2x VLS (49 cells ea.)

Aircraft: 4x VTOL aircraft

The Mithril inccorprates a variety of low observable technology in addition to its impressive armament. Including advanced shaping (Looks like a Shadow stealth ship trying to mate with a conventional battleship, the tureets are also shaped for low RCS) as well as extensive use of RAM/RAS and RTM. The radar suite even includes substantial LPI capability through the use of revolutionary (And Real Life) Technology that allows the ships electronics system to identify radar returns from objects twice as far away as a conventional radar set (Not currently viable but there are ideas. its based off a technology for recieving radio frequency signals at extemely low intensities that is currently viable and is being used to provide cheap, area Wi-Fi)

 

I designed the last two for a wargame I'm involved in the first is just an overview of a class of ships that evolved somehow in this game, obviously its not entirely realistic (The wargame, via the ships)...

265373[/snapback]

 

And just how are these going to be paid for?

 

And what governemnt with ICBMs is ever going to let these get launched?

 

Even with non-nuke warheads a barrage of ICBMs with terminal guidance will make a mess of any of these on the slips

 

which reminds me, what shipyard would ever have any capacity to build the larger of these?

[Fermi2]

OK, I will ask why would it be idiotic to put a nuclear reactor on a BB, or a BC ?

 

Please educate us.

 

FWIW, I don't know beans about nuclear reactors, but it would seem to me that if all of our carriers, and subs, have them, why not a big capital ship that is supposed to operate with them.  I am thinking in terms of a USN ship.

 

After all, it would alow them to remain on station for a long time.

265311[/snapback]

 

 

And where exactly will these ships be stationed?

 

Oh by the way, I am a nuclear engineer, qualified on quite a few Submarine and surface reactors, currently working in the civilian industry.

 

Mike

Edited January 2, 2006 by Fermi2

[Bob B]

And where exactly will these ships be stationed?

 

Oh by the way, I am a nuclear engineer, qualified on quite a few Submarine and surface reactors, currently working in the civilian industry.

 

Mike

265389[/snapback]

 

I would suspect that they would operate in the same areas as the assault transport ships in case fire support is needed. Similar to the way the Iowas were employed. Places like Lebanon, N. Korea, or the Persian Gulf. Keep in mind that what we are talking about is a concept and not necessarily an all big gun BB. It could even be something like the arsenal ship that was recently studied.

 

Having nuclear power was not a mandatory requirement for ship under discussion. It was just an idea being tossed about.

 

Also, IIRC, the Kirovs were nuclear propelled and they worried the USN quite a bit when they appeared.