Doctrinal employment of mortars

[Wobbly Head]

I was referring to the computing of the actual ballistic data which is not part of any C&C network that I know of.

262540[/snapback]

 

The new c&c systems are basicaly PC computers linked into the vehicle systems,radios GPS and have more than the capacity to be balistic computers and are interfaced into some sights to transmit sight images. All it would take is linking the mortar turntable to a travers sensor a gyro and the GPS with some software it would be posible to display all threats and have the fire solution displayed beside the threat.

Edited December 26, 2005 by Wobbly Head

[EchoFiveMike]

Does the one-man-mortar category (i.e. 60mm or smaller) really perform a practical function that lads using an M203 can't do?

 

NTM

262545[/snapback]

 

 

Well, to resurrect a dead thread, I think the commando mortars(51&60mm) aren't really that useful compared to a M203 with the exception of smoke, and laying down a decent smoke screen is going to use all the ammo you have, unless vehicle supported. Smoke is for marking targets. I do thing that the M203 is just a little light on range and on target performance, and would really like to see a medium velocity 40mm GL using the Mk 19 weight projectile at a velocity of maybe 110-125m/s. This should easily get you out to about 600-700m, which is really all you need from something carried by a squad since that's outside the danger close range of everything save naval guns and various types of cluster munitions. There are shoulder fired GL's that can fire 40x53, so reducing the velocity by 50% should really allow for a militarily pratical weapon. S/F....Ken M

[BansheeOne]

I do thing that the M203 is just a little light on range and on target performance, and would really like to see a medium velocity 40mm GL using the Mk 19 weight projectile at a velocity of maybe 110-125m/s.  This should easily get you out to about 600-700m, which is really all you need from something carried by a squad since that's outside the danger close range of everything save naval guns and various types of cluster munitions.  There are shoulder fired GL's that can fire 40x53, so reducing the velocity by 50% should really allow for a militarily pratical weapon.

 

IIRC the EX-41 four-round pump-action GL fired the Mk 19 projectile on a 46 mm casing (or was that the other way round? Unfortunately I don't have that demo shoot report anymore) to 800 m, and they intended to double that range.

[EchoFiveMike]

IIRC the EX-41 four-round pump-action GL fired the Mk 19 projectile on a 46 mm casing (or was that the other way round? Unfortunately I don't have that demo shoot report anymore) to 800 m, and they intended to double that range.

271276[/snapback]

 

FN has a bullpup bolt action GL that fires full house 40x53. It weighes about 16lbs but isn't that bad to handle IME. It has a MIL1913 rail and with an ACOG or Aimpoint plus 3x magnifier would really be the cat's ass. If you reduced the 240m/s vel of the 40x53 to 120m/s or so, you'd cut recoil by 50% and would be able to reduce weight accordingly. S/F....Ken M

[Simon Tan]

Another possibility hitherto unconsidered solution a RPG-like 2-stage RAP projectile. Hi/lo pressure launch and rocket motor ignition after a set time period.

You can even run them in M203s alongside conventional low-pressure rounds.

 

The rocket motor would be designed to continue to impart spin (a la Nebelwerfer) to reduce degradation in accuracy.

 

This solution could be used for either LR versions of standard rounds or heavier payloads.

 

Simon

[gewing]

FN has a bullpup bolt action GL that fires full house 40x53.  It weighes about 16lbs but isn't that bad to handle IME.  It has a MIL1913 rail and with an ACOG or Aimpoint plus 3x magnifier would really be the cat's ass.  If you reduced the 240m/s vel of the 40x53 to 120m/s or so, you'd cut recoil by 50% and would be able to reduce weight accordingly.  S/F....Ken M

271286[/snapback]

 

is that the "High Impulse Weapon system"???

 

I was wondering how it operated. Bolt action though?

 

I would think pump or semi-auto would be better.

 

 

Do you think that cutting the velocity to about 120m/s or even a little less, but increasing the projectile weight would be an option?

 

Or maybe some rifle grenades should actually be purchased too. NOt for general use, I guess, but for situations where you want more HE, but don't have the heavier weapons?

 

Heck, I was just thinking about the Spike minimissile, If they were talking about $4k homing missiles, I wonder how cheap an unguided HE or HEDP rocket could be made for the system?

[gewing]

Another possibility hitherto unconsidered solution a RPG-like 2-stage RAP projectile. Hi/lo pressure launch and rocket motor ignition after a set time period.

You can even run them in M203s alongside conventional low-pressure rounds.

 

The rocket motor would be designed to continue to impart spin (a la Nebelwerfer) to reduce degradation in accuracy.

 

This solution could be used for either LR versions of standard rounds or heavier payloads.

 

Simon

271383[/snapback]

 

 

 

M-203 iirc is limited in the length of round it can handle. the Newer HK? system might be a better choice for such things.

[EchoFiveMike]

is that the "High Impulse Weapon system"???

 

I was wondering how it operated.  Bolt action though?

 

I would think pump or semi-auto would be better.

Do you think that cutting the velocity to about 120m/s or even a little less, but increasing the projectile weight would be an option?

 

Or maybe some rifle grenades should actually be purchased too.  NOt for general use, I guess, but for situations where you want more HE, but don't have the heavier weapons?

 

Heck, I was just thinking about the Spike minimissile, If they were talking about $4k homing missiles, I wonder how cheap an unguided HE or HEDP rocket could be made for the system?

271424[/snapback]

 

 

No, the high impulse gadget is 60mm or some such. Totally different thing. Although the 40x53 GL does have the ordnance part of the weapon recoiling within the stock as a means of recoil mitigation, in a similar manner to the high impulse weapon.

 

The 40x53 projectile weighes about twice what the 40x46 weighes, a much more substantial projectile. I showed my guys this in Iraq when you put the two next to each other. The 40x46 has a little short aluminum body with a thin, LW Aluminum fuze ogive; the Mk 19 rd has a long steel body and a more solid Al ogive. The 40x46 is rated at 50mm RHA, the Mk 19 at 76mm, and has more substantial frag also. This projectile at 120m/s is fine IMO, and still cheap enough to use in large numbers, not something that could be said for RAP rds or anything guided. S/F.....Ken M

[Simon Tan]

Semi-auto etc. are heavy and cumbersome. Make mine a break top M79-a-like. I reckon a well trained grenadier could put 10-12rpm out.

 

Simon