Bayonets

[Xonitex]

Does any army go into battle with bayonets fixed anymore? Captain Mike Steele recounted that during the Battle of Mogadishu in 1993, he regretted having his Rangers deploy without bayonets. Isn't that a bit anachronistic, especially for MOUT/urban CQB?

[Ivanhoe]

Does any army go into battle with bayonets fixed anymore?  Captain Mike Steele recounted that during the Battle of Mogadishu in 1993, he regretted having his Rangers deploy without bayonets.  Isn't that a bit anachronistic, especially for MOUT/urban CQB?

258984[/snapback]

 

I would think that MOUT is a good place to carry a sharp. You're not generally hiking dozens of kilometers a day, there's all sorts of wires ropes clotheslines etc you might need to cut, and OPFOR has lots of concealment and cover to get within CQB range.

[KingSargent]

Does any army go into battle with bayonets fixed anymore?  Captain Mike Steele recounted that during the Battle of Mogadishu in 1993, he regretted having his Rangers deploy without bayonets.  Isn't that a bit anachronistic, especially for MOUT/urban CQB?

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MOUT is one of the best places for bayonets. A friend of mine was running a 'Hogan's Alley' type course and this target popped out right in front of him. He stabbed it in the X-ring with his knife and kept truckin'. The graders disallowed the knife trick, which I thought was grossly unfair.

 

"Fix Bayonets!" has a psychological effect. It tells the troops that they are going to keep moving into really close quarters, and it tells the opposition, "These guys are serious about killing me!" For some reason blades scare people more than bullets; bayonets may be "a bit anachronistic" but they are still scary.

[Chris Werb]

In a British infantry section only two out of eight personal weapons can still take a bayonet.

[ABNredleg]

How on earth do they open their rations?

[Xonitex]

This is an interesting part of a "lessons learned" report about the subject:

 

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/lib..._2-88_chpt1.htm

[Jim Wade]

I get a stronger reaction to the thought of a bayonet in my stomach rather than a bullet. Perhaps its been programmed into us over time: stay away from sharp blades?

 

I wonder if tomahawks have been used in the last few decades.

 

Does anybody know if Europe had a tomahawk equivalent?

[T19]

CF still uses them everyone gets one.

[UN-Interested Observer]

The godendag was crude yet effective, and spread fear out of proportion to it's simplicity.

[Christian Lupine]

I have always read that knives will go through soft body armor, any chance that you could put enough force behind a bayonet to get through a hard plate?

[mcantu]

I have always read that knives will go through soft body armor, any chance that you could put enough force behind a bayonet to get through a hard plate?

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soft armor will resist knife blades fairly well...ice pick type blades, dirks, etc. are another story. you will not get any blade through a hard plate

[Simon Tan]

Chris...LOL.....2 Minimi, 2 GL, 2 LSW....

 

Never fear....plug bayonets work great!

 

Simon

[Rubberneck]

A little off topic - I bought a French bayonet here in Afghanistan from the mid 1880's - what rifle would this attach to?

 

It's a beautiful weapon - it's engraved on the top with what I think is the Arsenal it was forged at.

 

TIA.

[Chris Werb]

This is an interesting part of a "lessons learned" report about the subject:

 

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/lib..._2-88_chpt1.htm

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I thought this was odd:

 

The "Garry Owens" Charge Up Hill 314

 

In a similar incident, the 3rd Bn 7th Cavalry ("Garry Owens") attacked up Hill 314 along the Naktong River line near Taegu in the face of 700 enemy. They fixed bayonets and drove the North Koreans from their holes. The fury of the attackers broke the enemy defenses as they threw down their weapons and ran. The shock action of a bayonet charge exhilarated the attackers and demoralized the defenders. This action earned the "Garry Owens" a distinguished unit citation.

 

The 7th Cav were infantry in Korea?

[RETAC21]

I thought this was odd:

 

The "Garry Owens" Charge Up Hill 314

 

In a similar incident, the 3rd Bn 7th Cavalry ("Garry Owens") attacked up Hill 314 along the Naktong River line near Taegu in the face of 700 enemy. They fixed bayonets and drove the North Koreans from their holes. The fury of the attackers broke the enemy defenses as they threw down their weapons and ran. The shock action of a bayonet charge exhilarated the attackers and demoralized the defenders. This action earned the "Garry Owens" a distinguished unit citation.

 

The 7th Cav were infantry in Korea?

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The whole 1st Cavalry division was infantry in Korea, and in WW2 for the time they fought.

[Paul in Qatar]

I always carried one and so did my guys. I was thought eccentric.

[George Newbill]

I was issued an M-16A2 and a bayonette, never carried the knife, never fired the rifle, instead I directed the belt-feds with me when in combat. I kept a 14 inch long Turkish Mauser bayonnette in my back pack.

[yuval]

i have two AK47 bayonets that my father gave me when i was 15. he found them in a smoking BTR in the golan hights in 73. i still use one of them when i'm hiking.

everybody thought me a bit odd when i went around gaza with the bayonet lodged in my vest. nevertheless it was quite an amazing thing to see how an old bayonet fits an AK47 we took from a terrorist.

do you have any idea where i can find the origin of the bayonets by the imprints on them? one of them still has a good portion of them, and it's written in kirillic.

[Zaraguina]

A little off topic - I bought a French bayonet here in Afghanistan from the mid 1880's - what rifle would this attach to?

 

It's a beautiful weapon - it's engraved on the top with what I think is the Arsenal it was forged at.

 

TIA.

259087[/snapback]

One Lebel rifle perhaps ?

 

i have two AK47 bayonets that my father gave me when i was 15. he found them in a smoking BTR in the golan hights in 73. i still use one of them when i'm hiking.

everybody thought me a bit odd when i went around gaza with the bayonet lodged in my vest. nevertheless it was quite an amazing thing to see how an old bayonet fits an AK47 we took from a terrorist.

do you have any idea where i can find the origin of the bayonets by the imprints on them? one of them still has a good portion of them, and it's written in kirillic.

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On this website, look for AK47 US Army Operators Manual v1, in this pdf there is a table with different weapon markings and the related factory/country. Let's hope for weapon and bayonet marking being the same or similars ...

 

p.s. : htaccess to the pdf is on the website

Edited December 16, 2005 by Zaraguina

[Rickshaw]

Fixing bayonets focuses the mind, both of the fixer and those who observe it, once its been fixed.

 

The last time an Australia Army fixed bayonets in wartime was at the battles of FSBs Coral and Balmoral. The F88 can have it fixed, the bayonet is issued but I have in the back of my mind that there is some sort of instruction thats not to be done. Shame, if true.

 

Personally, I always carried a bayonet and a meathook, with a long length of rope - a trick I learnt off of a Vietnam veteran when I was doing my IET as an infantryman.

Edited December 16, 2005 by Baron Samedi

[Chris Werb]

One Lebel rifle perhaps ? 

 

AFAIK the Lebel which dated from 1886 had a cruciform spike baoyonet. I think the Gras preceded the Lebel - I'm not sure what sort of bayonet that had.

[Zaraguina]

AFAIK the Lebel which dated from 1886 had a cruciform spike baoyonet.  I think the Gras preceded the Lebel - I'm not sure what sort of bayonet that had.

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Perhaps, I know almost nothing about bayonets !

Here a website with bayonets (include old french bayonets->baïonnette).

[Marek Tucan]

Got an AK-74 bayonett (older pattern) at home, had also an old, Ist Republic (ie 1920's-30's) vz.24 bayonett (generally a copy of Mauser), but it was not in a good shape, sold it half a year ago.

[Rubberneck]

Thanks for the link:

 

It's a:

Arme : Fusil Gras Modèle 1874

[yuval]

Got an AK-74 bayonett (older pattern) at home, had also an old, Ist Republic (ie 1920's-30's) vz.24 bayonett (generally a copy of Mauser), but it was not in a good shape, sold it half a year ago.

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do you have an idea about how much a well preserved AK-47 bayonett + original sheath (1970's) are worth?

i'm thinking about selling one of mine, or exchanging it for another...