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Main Gun Ammo - Revisited


Jim Warford

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I recall a conversation I had with an ODS tanker who said that once his 120mm KEP penetrated through the Iraqi tanks, the crew would be sucked out the exit hole...

 

Anyone care to elaborate a bit more on this? The physics behind it, stories, etc.

 

You can rest assured, that is nothing more than a old tankers wise tale, along with the story that it was a tested using sheep and goats and proven to be the real deal. ;)

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I recall a conversation I had with an ODS tanker who said that once his 120mm KEP penetrated through the Iraqi tanks, the crew would be sucked out the exit hole...

 

Anyone care to elaborate a bit more on this? The physics behind it, stories, etc.

The physics are incomprehensible and the stories fictional legion.

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Some time ago there was some rumour about KE rounds that were adopted to attacking buildings, causing damage only in the room targeted to avoid collateral damage. Perhaps are there those? If I cannot recognise them properly, please forgive. By the way - Do you know if Canadians use HE 120 mm rounds or HEAT-MP?

As it refers to APFSDS rounds, if there is a procedure to keep some of them, they should be, as 30 HE/HEAT rounds seem to be enough, and there always may occur a situation when they're needed (cannot imagine one now :) )

Tomas, are you talking about APFSDS?

You're probably referring to the Rheinmetall PELE refurbishment of old rounds. That way existing stocks can be recycled at lower costs. So far, AFAIK, only Denmark adopted the PELE round as a regular addition to their inventory.

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You're probably referring to the Rheinmetall PELE refurbishment of old rounds. That way existing stocks can be recycled at lower costs. So far, AFAIK, only Denmark adopted the PELE round as a regular addition to their inventory.

 

Following your link to Google I found an interesting PDF describing PELE trials. It mentions DM33A1/A2 being used as basis for a 120mm PELE. Never heard of DM33A2, anybody knows its differences with the basic DM33? And what the A1 improvements were?

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Yes, it looks like one of 3BM-9/12. But, really it is only (old style) standard training/drill ammunition (only iron and sheet metal...).

Edited by Stefan Kotsch
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  • 1 month later...
Following your link to Google I found an interesting PDF describing PELE trials. It mentions DM33A1/A2 being used as basis for a 120mm PELE. Never heard of DM33A2, anybody knows its differences with the basic DM33? And what the A1 improvements were?

 

DM33A1 pre cut plastic band(s) around the sabots for better seperation when leaving the barrel

DM33A2 same as above but also with improved ''ingnition'' (don't know the exact word for it)

 

Regards

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The German nomenclature makes much more sense than the US. When the German's field a new round it get's a new number. The US on the other hand has fallen in love with 829. I'm sure in 10 years we'll be fielding the M829A12, which will be hypersonic sharks with frikkin' lasers on their heads and bear about as much commonality to the M829 as, say the M829A1 does.

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  • 4 months later...

Potentially valid information about Chinese main gun rounds...

 

"In recent years, a key priority of China’s tank industry has been the upgrading of 125-mm caliber tank ammunitions, particularly APFSDS. China has so far upgraded APFSDS II to APFSDS IIM, both of which have a weight of 23 kilograms, but with different velocities. The APFSDS II has a velocity of 1720 meters per second, while the IIM’s velocity is 1700 meters per second.

 

The two types of APFSDS munitions have a penetration capacity of RHA220 mm/68.5o and RHA220mm/66.4o at a range of 2000 meters respectively. The 125-mm BTJ1 HEAT munitions have a penetration capacity of RHA180mm/68 o with behind armor effect, while the HEAT munitions displayed in earlier years have had a penetration capacity of RHA80mm/68 o with behind armor effect.

 

--

 

(Andrei Chang is editor-in-chief of Kanwa Defense Review Monthly, registered in Toronto, Canada.) "

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Potentially valid information about Chinese main gun rounds...

 

"In recent years, a key priority of China’s tank industry has been the upgrading of 125-mm caliber tank ammunitions, particularly APFSDS. China has so far upgraded APFSDS II to APFSDS IIM, both of which have a weight of 23 kilograms, but with different velocities. The APFSDS II has a velocity of 1720 meters per second, while the IIM’s velocity is 1700 meters per second.

 

The two types of APFSDS munitions have a penetration capacity of RHA220 mm/68.5o and RHA220mm/66.4o at a range of 2000 meters respectively. The 125-mm BTJ1 HEAT munitions have a penetration capacity of RHA180mm/68 o with behind armor effect, while the HEAT munitions displayed in earlier years have had a penetration capacity of RHA80mm/68 o with behind armor effect.

 

--

 

(Andrei Chang is editor-in-chief of Kanwa Defense Review Monthly, registered in Toronto, Canada.) "

 

What are these numbers in plain RHAe?. My arithmatic died and went to heaven some time ago :blink: .

 

Charles

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Just a question,does Canada has their own 120mm APFSDS round?

 

Not for the 120mm as far as I know. The DM-33 is the newest round that we have in stockpile. I am not sure if we will be getting Dm-53/63 with our new Cats. Maybe if Harper gets a Majority and sends more money to the Military.

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  • 1 month later...

Russsian APFSDS rounds identify

These rounds are strange to me:

1.unknown 125mm APFSDS :blink:

2.another unknown 125mm APFSDS :o

3.unknown 115mm APFSDS <_<

Or try these links:

http://img87.imageshack.us/my.php?image=20...05164711pz0.jpg

http://img513.imageshack.us/my.php?image=2...05164756bf7.jpg

http://img87.imageshack.us/my.php?image=20...05164829og7.jpg

Edited by Davin
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1.unknown 125mm APFSDS :blink:

 

Not sure about this one, looks kinda weird, probably experimental pre-BM42 round.

 

2.another unknown 125mm APFSDS :o
3BM39 Anker.

 

3.unknown 115mm APFSDS <_<

 

Unless the aspect ratio is screwed up, this looks rather like a 100mm round for T-12 ATG to me.

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Vasiliy,is 3BM39 Anker designed for 2A66 gun only?

 

It was designed for it, but I don't know if it would be compatible with the other pieces or not. Unless there are some non-obvious dimension issues I don't see why not. I suspect it would be hell on the internal surface, but that's not something to be a concern in a shooting war - after all even if the barrel life goes down to just say 50 rounds, if a modern tank had a chance to fire 50 rounds at comparable targets, the crew can die knowing it's going to tankers' heaven :)

 

And what about this one,looks like Anker but has a larger rod:

 

"Anker" is actually the research topic, with multiple configs tried. I don't know if the round was ever finalized since the gun never went to production anyway.

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