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Main Gun Ammo - Revisited


Jim Warford

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Thanks for the pic, VERY interesting!!! So, what is it? M392? L36? M728?

 

Good question...I don't remember hearing much about the Israeli use of the M728 and I know that M392 and M392A2 were discussed frequently...so my guess would be that these are of the M392 variety.

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Good question...I don't remember hearing much about the Israeli use of the M728 and I know that M392 and M392A2 were discussed frequently...so my guess would be that these are of the M392 variety.

Probably M392 or Brit derivative. Definetly not M728, M728 was developed partly in response to lessons learned about M392 in 1973. Either way, M728 specs weren't let until late 1973.

Edited by DKTanker
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Surely not L52?

 

Hardly :)

 

The rounds trialled were, British L28A1 APDS and L35A2 HESH and their Israeli analogs, as well as US М392А2 APDS.

 

The trials were against T-64/T-72 glacis equivalent target and not too surprisingly showed basically that the rounds could barely cope with the forward 80mm plate nevermind the full array.

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Guest Charles
Hardly :)

 

The rounds trialled were, British L28A1 APDS and L35A2 HESH and their Israeli analogs, as well as US М392А2 APDS.

 

The trials were against T-64/T-72 glacis equivalent target and not too surprisingly showed basically that the rounds could barely cope with the forward 80mm plate nevermind the full array.

 

Vas,

When did the USSR carry out these trials?.

 

TIA

 

Charles

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I don't know exactly except that it was soon after the reception of the tanks (which were incidentally two Israeli-upgraded Centurions knocked out by HEAT ammo). So presumably 1974 at the latest...

 

IIRC, we discussed these post 1973 firing trials quite awhile back, but not in much detail. Are those Centurions currently displayed at Kubinka? These Soviet firing trials (the post 1973 and the post 1982 - which I wrote about in ARMOR), are very interesting and certainly caused reactions around the world. Vas; can you remember any more details regarding the post 1973 firing trials? What were the Soviet reactions...what did they lean? Perhaps the most interesting aspect of all this is what if anything the Russians got their hands on from OIF. I've seen open press pics that showed insurgent ammo caches that included captured US 120mm APFSDS and HEAT ammo. Has there been another round of firing trials at Kubinka...?

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IIRC, we discussed these post 1973 firing trials quite awhile back, but not in much detail. Are those Centurions currently displayed at Kubinka? These Soviet firing trials (the post 1973 and the post 1982 - which I wrote about in ARMOR), are very interesting and certainly caused reactions around the world. Vas; can you remember any more details regarding the post 1973 firing trials?

 

They have found that the best rounds were the British, APDS could penetrate 80mm at 68 degrees out to 2km, and HESH could cause spalling on this plate. The Israeli APDS rounds had very low fire consistency. US APDS rounds had noticably lower penetration potential than British. They also found that 7% HESH failed to fuse when fired at the ground from 2 km, and 54% failed to fuse when fired from 1 km. That's all I know.

 

Perhaps the most interesting aspect of all this is what if anything the Russians got their hands on from OIF. I've seen open press pics that showed insurgent ammo caches that included captured US 120mm APFSDS and HEAT ammo. Has there been another round of firing trials at Kubinka...?

 

There are definitely various kinds of modern NATO ammo available both to Russia and Ukraine, but I don't know from what source and what is being done with them in Russia. I heard of different testings the Ukrainians were doing with French and Israeli APFSDS though.

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Some time ago there was some rumour about KE rounds that were adopted to attacking buildings, causing damage only in the room targeted to avoid collateral damage. Perhaps are there those? If I cannot recognise them properly, please forgive. By the way - Do you know if Canadians use HE 120 mm rounds or HEAT-MP?

As it refers to APFSDS rounds, if there is a procedure to keep some of them, they should be, as 30 HE/HEAT rounds seem to be enough, and there always may occur a situation when they're needed (cannot imagine one now :) )

Tomas, are you talking about APFSDS?

Edited by m4a1
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To suck them out of their holes. Worked well in Iraq, sucking out insurgents from buildings. ;)

 

I recall a conversation I had with an ODS tanker who said that once his 120mm KEP penetrated through the Iraqi tanks, the crew would be sucked out the exit hole...

 

Anyone care to elaborate a bit more on this? The physics behind it, stories, etc.

Edited by demosthenes
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I recall a conversation I had with an ODS tanker who said that once his 120mm KEP penetrated through the Iraqi tanks, the crew would be sucked out the exit hole...

 

Anyone care to elaborate a bit more on this? The physics behind it, stories, etc.

 

Well, afterwards... how could you tell? It would take a CSI crew with a big budget and maybe some television special effects not admissable in court just to confirm the tank was fully crewed.

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